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The Adventures of FrankenScope

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#1 Tenacious

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 08:46 PM

What is Frankenscope?  It is a scope that I can't resist tinkering with and experimenting upon.  ;)   In this thread, the heart of the system will be a Tasco 60mm, f/15 (900mm focal length) refractor I found at a swap table at Scope Out 2015 (an annual event at the Cincinnati Observatory Center).  Like the legendary monster, the scope and platform will probably turn out to be a mixture of inexpensive components from various manufacturers, married together by parts made out of wood and other materials from the hardware store.  My pockets are NOT deep for yet another scope.  This is a project for my education and entertainment.  Already, I have stumbled upon a fun world of small aperture observing.

This OTA was made in China and is probably fairly modern, though I haven't tried to date its manufacture yet.  It originally sold on a EQ-1 mount and has  "From the Earth to the Moon" printed on tube at the sky end. I suspect that the objective might be pretty good, optically.   It has a 1-1/4" focuser that, except for the pinion shaft and the bracket that holds it in place, is all plastic, even the chromed extension tube.  I'm going to start with this.

 I could, of course, try to scrounge a better quality metal focuser, but, I get that they are in short supply, especially for 1.25" EPs.  OTOH, plastic is not inherently evil, especially when made thick enough for the task.  The only physical load should be rigidly holding a diagonal, my largest EP, and, maybe a Shorty barlow.  Besides, this focuser fits the OTA perfectly and has the correct Tasco tag on it already.  It is just a little stiff to focus accurately.

I disassembled it and found a piece of fabric glued crookedly to the I.D. (inside diameter) of the focuser, opposite the pinion.  This served as the 'bearing' for one tube to slide smoothly inside the other.  In hind-sight, I should have left this in place to start this experiment and simply adjusted (backed off) the screws that mount and tension the pinion.  Tuning these screws alone might have been all of the improvement required in the focuser motion.  However, upon finding that viscous syrup (I hate this stuff!) that is invariably used to simulate "..precision, slow motion..", I plowed ahead and removed the fabric and the syrup.

What to use for a new bearing?  The inspiration came right out of "Astronomy Hacks, Tips & Tools for Observing the Night Sky".  Hack #42 suggests using the plastic of a common milk jug to create a stack of washers to improve Dobsonian motion.  Could this plastic, if cut into narrow strips, be a suitable bearing for my focuser?  I drank 3 glasses of milk just to find out. 

 

 

FocuserEx.JPG

 

First, I tried 2 quarter inch wide strips, spaced 120 degrees from the pinion.  There was not enough clearance between the inner and outer tubes for this configuration.  Then I tried a single strip a half inch wide placed directly opposite the pinion, like the original fabric was.  This worked well.  There was no angular backlash between the tubes and tension was adjustable with the screws that hold the pinion bracket in place.  Next, I glued (silicon RTV is easy to remove if needed) the plastic strip to the ID so it doesn't move with the draw tube.  Then I lubricated the rack and pinion with white lithium grease.

Does this focuser now have the buttery precision of a Crawford?  Well, not quite, but it is very smooth. :)  The focuser is molded plastic, after all, not machined aluminum with roller bearings.  OTOH, I no longer bump back and forth endlessly past the ideal focus.  With the tension lightly set, the focus knob turns with much less effort.  There is a little lost motion in the focus knob due to the slots in the bracket being larger than the focus shaft.  This is the reason the screws were originally so tight.  I could make a new bracket, or 'V' the bottoms of the existing bracket.  For now though, that very little bit of backlash is pretty easy to ignore.

Could I have tuned the focuser to my satisfaction without removing the original fabric bearing?  I don't know.  Had I been a little less rash, I could have explored this question better. 

Everyone has probably heard the expression "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."  The ATM's equivalent might be "You can't make a Unitron out of a department store scope".   I don't doubt this.  Due to other responsibilities, I will probably never be able to justify the expense, especially at today's prices, of the Unitron 145 (I do admit to a primal admiration for this scope).  On the other hand, with some tuning, reasoned modifications and upgraded finder and EPs, I might be able to scratch my Unitron itch, at least partially, without investing thousands.  I do intend to have fun with the project.


Edited by Tenacious, 23 October 2015 - 11:29 PM.


#2 Chuck Hards

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 09:03 PM

Self-adhesive felt strip.  Get it at the craft store.  Should work fine if you get the thickness just right, the "bearing" doesn't have to be a rigid plastic material.  Anything that will keep the tube from wobbling will work.

 

Welcome to Cloudy Nights!



#3 CP Kuiper

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 11:18 PM

 However, upon finding that viscous syrup (I hate this stuff!) that is invariably used to simulate "..precision, slow motion..", I plowed ahead and removed the fabric and the syrup.

What did you use to remove the 'viscous syrup' and how much white lithium grease did you apply to the rack and pinion?

 

I seem recall mention of a CN member that had a made a detailed post about 'tuning' a refractor rack and pinion focuser.

I have tried to find it many times, with no joy.


Edited by CP Kuiper, 23 October 2015 - 11:19 PM.


#4 Tenacious

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 08:22 AM

@ Chuck   Thanks for the welcome!

 

@ CP Kuiper   When removing it from metal surfaces, I use acetone to help dissolve it (Effective, but it doesn't just liquefy and run off).  Since acetone can attack and soften plastic, I didn't dare use it on the focuser parts.  My only solution was to wipe it off with dry paper towels.  Yeah, all the teeth of the rack were a lot of fun.  ;) 

 

I applied the new grease to the teeth and sides of the rack to slide smoothly.  After running the draw tube back and forth to work it in about a dozen times, I simply wiped away the excess.



#5 Shelldrake

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 09:04 AM

@ CP Kuiper    I find that WD40 does a pretty good job of dissolving "viscous telescope syrup" and should be safe on plastic too.



#6 kansas skies

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 09:12 AM

I use odorless paint thinner (solvent or mineral spirits) to clean both grease and tape residue from surfaces. It does a great job and I've never had a problem with it attacking plastic, but I do make it a point to clean all surfaces with soap and water afterwards whenever possible.

 

Bill



#7 Chuck Hards

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 01:09 PM

Charcoal lighter fluid.  Cheap, effective, relatively safe solvent. 



#8 Tenacious

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 03:15 PM

I don't have any lighter fluid or odorless paint thinner on hand at the moment.

 

I did just try WD-40.  It works great!  Much better than acetone.

 

I could be wrong, but this syrup resembles a material that I've seen specified as o-ring grease.  I wonder if that is what it is.



#9 Tenacious

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 09:32 AM

TripodA.JPG TripodB.JPG

 

 

The new home for the 60mm will be an EQ-2 (I think).  Bomber Bob tells me it's a Towa?  I need to research this.  I refinished the tripod legs, painted the leg brackets a satin black, and made a new tray for 1-1/4 EPs.  For purely aesthetic reasons, I added some brass hardware (it compliments the mahogany stain).  ;)


Edited by Tenacious, 25 October 2015 - 11:54 AM.


#10 TOM KIEHL

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 01:03 PM

Very Nice , I like your work . Welcome to the   V.S.R.P.    ( Vintage Scopeaholics and Restorationist Preservist ) CLUB . :lol:



#11 Tenacious

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Posted 25 October 2015 - 01:39 PM

Thank you.  Whenever I suffer from a social malady, I at least like to know what it's called.  :grin:



#12 Tenacious

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 06:04 PM

Nice new avatars, guys.

 

The Tasco 60mm refractor originally came on an EQ-1 mount, which I didn't buy.  Sitting next to it was a Tasco 11TE-5 (a future project) on an older EQ-2.  The 11TE-5 had been dropped on its focuser and was bent.  I walked by the pair at least 3 times before making an offer to buy them.  There were also two 8 x 50mm finders available for a song.  I now wish I had the foresight to buy both.

What I needed was tube rings to tie everything together......

 

 

TubeRingsA.JPG

 

 



#13 Tenacious

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 06:11 PM

TubeRingsB.JPG

 

Functionally, I'm rather pleased with the results.  I even liked the paint job before I saw these photos.   :lol:  

 

The 2 wing-nuts allow the scope to be removed from the mount without upsetting the alignment of the finders.  The finder rings are cut from a PVC pipe coupler and are tapped for 1/4-20 threads.  All of the set-screws are white nylon painted black (available from Lowes, but not Home Depot).  The laser holder is also PVC.
 

 

 

 



#14 Tenacious

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 11:25 AM

A couple of shots of the project reassembled...

 

WholeA.JPG   WholeB.JPG

 

While not finished, I think I'm starting to scratch that itch.  :waytogo:

 

 

 



#15 droid

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 06:29 PM

Man that is so cool looking, love it



#16 Tenacious

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 07:37 PM

Thanks Andy.

 

 

 

My very first scope, long before green laser pointers, was 4.5" f/8 (Tasco red tube) on a newer version of this same mount.  What I remember the most was trying to contort myself (especially targets near zenith) to look through the finder while also trying to find and tighten the locking knobs of each axis.  A laser finder on an equatorial is whole other world of speed and comfort.

So, is it an unspoken faux pas to use a laser finder on a scope at a star party?   :shocked:   I'm always the last to stumble upon issues of social etiquette, just ask my wife!


Edited by Tenacious, 29 October 2015 - 07:42 PM.


#17 Tenacious

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Posted 03 November 2015 - 12:22 PM

An equatorial mount, when aligned with our planet's axis, is a joy to use.  The problem for owners of portable instruments is quickly setting an acceptable polar alignment without much effort.  So, to help with this, I added a bubble level for set-up on remote, uneven ground.  (Sorry, the actual air bubble doesn't show up in the photo.)  With the base leveled (this assumes the azimuth axis will then be plumb), and the local latitude dialed in to the altitude adjustment, a very usable polar alignment can be had by simply swinging the scope in azimuth to align the right ascension axis with polaris.  It turns out that I can do this reliably and quickly.   :waytogo:

 

Level2.jpg    LEDs 2.jpg

 

 

In the bottom view, the new knob adjusts the tension on the azimuth axis.  The leveling base is merely spring loaded against the mount's base.

While I was planning this modification, I couldn't help noticing that there was room in the base for a 9 volt battery, 3 LEDs, and a switch.  I can post a diagram of this simple circuit if anyone is interested.  The LEDs are in series and sip current from the battery at a slow, 16mA rate.  They can be left On for many hours at a time.

As expected, the EP tray is nicely illuminated in red light.  The surprise is the extra confidence I have to not trip into a tripod leg.  :grin:



#18 Tenacious

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 12:19 PM

While attempting to split E Lyra, frustration set in.  At 180x, image shake (oscillation) induced by just touching the focuser or RA would take 5 seconds of more to settle out.  Even a light wind could set the oscillation in motion.  Interestingly, it doesn't matter from what direction the scope was disturbed, the oscillation would always translate to the horizontal plane.  My telescope twists about the azimuth axis.  Due to the wooden tripod design, this is by far the weakest axis, even with all of the screws of the legs and EP tray tightened.   Indoors, while applying a gentle side load to turn the scope, I could watch the wood flex and the mount's base twist.

My latest modification then, is to add diagonal bracing to resist twist and to dampen oscillation faster...

 

DiagBracing.JPG    DSC01933.JPG

 

 

After tightening everything, the whole system is noticeably much more rigid than it was before.  Now I just need a clear night to time how fast it dampens at high magnification.


Edited by Tenacious, 08 November 2015 - 12:50 PM.


#19 fjs

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 02:35 PM

Wow! Your tripod stiffening solution looks amazing.

 

I am not usually hesitant to promote MY invention, but in this case; I am.

 

Never the less...

 

It looks like you can make it prettier, but here it is: Shadetree Engineering


Edited by fjs, 08 November 2015 - 07:08 PM.


#20 Tenacious

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 07:00 PM

Hi Frank

 

I like your invention, especially the way that whatever excess can be wrapped around the outside wood to protect it from the clamp. Clever.   This was your 7TE or the 10TE?  Do they both use the same equatorial head?    BTW, you just can't beat Red Green slapstick!

 

It looks like it is shaping up into a decent night under the sky.


Edited by Tenacious, 08 November 2015 - 07:26 PM.


#21 fjs

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 07:27 PM

Hi Frank

 

I like your invention, especially the way that whatever excess can be wrapped around the outside wood to protect it from the clamp.  This was your 7TE or the 10TE?  Do they both use the same equatorial head?

 

It looks like it is shaping up into a decent night under the sky.

 

Thank you,

 

In that thread it was the 10TE, but I did the same thing with the 7TE-5. It works great on both. It's just not pretty.

 

I took a long time thinking up a fix, since I didn't want to do anything to prevent either from being returned to 100% original.

 

The mounts are different. The 10TE is not just scaled up. It is a different design, although there are some similar characteristics. The 10TE tripod is pretty much a scaled-up version of the 7TE-5.

 

I'm enjoying your thread.


Edited by fjs, 08 November 2015 - 07:32 PM.


#22 Tenacious

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 07:43 PM

 

 

I took a long time thinking up a fix, since I didn't want to do anything to prevent either from being returned to 100% original.

 

 

So far, I think this is my first modification that alters the original parts - I had to drill a hole in each leg bracket.  I was reluctant at first when thinking about this plan.  Since mine was a later design, perhaps not as rare or valuable, I decided not to worry about it.

 

Interesting about the mounts being different, are they the same vintage?
 


Edited by Tenacious, 08 November 2015 - 07:49 PM.


#23 roscoe

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 08:27 PM

I like the red LED idea a lot!



#24 roscoe

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 08:39 PM


So, is it an unspoken faux pas to use a laser finder on a scope at a star party?   :shocked:   I'm always the last to stumble upon issues of social etiquette, just ask my wife!

 

It depends on the star party.....some look like a light show with lasers all around, some will get people yelling at you in the first two seconds.  I believe some have laser-yes and laser-no blocks of time.



#25 roscoe

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 08:47 PM

  My telescope twists about the azimuth axis.  Due to the wooden tripod design, this is by far the weakest axis, even with all of the screws of the legs and EP tray tightened.   Indoors, while applying a gentle side load to turn the scope, I could watch the wood flex and the mount's base twist.

 

 

I have found that the better method is to not tighten the hub-bolts very much.  While acquiring a target is a bit more difficult due to the mount feeling a little mushy, and thus sometimes the need to go a bit beyond and let the mount settle back in, the settling-down time after refocus or tracking is noticeably shorter.

 

It also can help to spend the time to carefully balance the scope on the mount.  If the shaft locks only need to be barely tight, the scope moves easier with a light touch, and so does not tend to twist the legs as much.
 


Edited by roscoe, 08 November 2015 - 08:52 PM.



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