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ONAG up and working perfectly

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#1 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 12:15 AM

More details later but the system was a piece of cake to switch over from AOX. I haven't looked at an image yet but JWalk measured first one at 1.8 fwhm 

more to come later. 

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#2 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 09:41 AM

1800 sec shot with ONAG uncalibrated and show for example only from last night.

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#3 graemlourens

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 09:56 AM

Wow, nice detail and tight stars.

 

I watched the presentation at TAIC on youtube, was fascinated about the ONAG. The idea is brilliant and the execution just beautiful.

Using the unusable light for guiding, i love it :)

 

If i ever go long focal length, this is the most probable way i will go.

 

Kind regards, Graem



#4 Jon Rista

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:10 AM

Wonderful stars there! Nice and round. 

 

I'm curious how much backfocus you needed for this setup. And what scope are you using it on?



#5 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:57 AM

16"RCOS The back focus is determined by the camera and OTA The observatory has one set up on a celestron SCT



#6 austin.grant

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:17 AM

Good luck finding a decent guide star... :step:

 

:) Seriously though, looks great. Can't wait to hear more details after a few nights use.


Edited by austin.grant, 17 December 2015 - 11:18 AM.


#7 Footbag

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 01:36 PM

Looking good! 



#8 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 02:25 PM

Actually Austin, I would say the most difficult thing is you must be precise in guider focus. The helical adjuster is very fine, and I can see why. Small adjustments really make a big difference in the amount of stars appearing in the guider image. Once you have it though it locks down solid. At my focal length, I'm very happy I decided to go with a larger guide camera. I don't have to worry about making adjustments in either axis which is very critical in a remote setup. I could easily see how if I was using an SCT with a loadstar, some adjustments may be necessary if I were shooting galaxies. They also added an astigmatism corrector as some OTA's have difficulty with star shapes, but I left mine in a zero position as I had perfectly round stars and symmetrical donuts until I brought it into focus.
It is very critical that both cameras are precisely focused in the beginning as once you have set the guide camera, it's focus will change as the OTA goes through a focus. Really not any different than OAG in that regard.
I was surprised how light and compact it all actually is.

#9 JJK

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 03:24 PM

How can it be working?  You removed the blue tape. :grin:



#10 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 03:48 PM

The comedy doesn't stop! I appreciate the humor though. What was more fun was watching Ken Crawford try not to fall on his rear end as the melted snow made a giant mud pie. 



#11 JJK

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 05:25 PM

The comedy doesn't stop! I appreciate the humor though. What was more fun was watching Ken Crawford try not to fall on his rear end as the melted snow made a giant mud pie. 

 

Please keep us informed about the progress you make with the unit.  The preliminary results look very encouraging!



#12 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 06:29 PM

The biggest issue right now for me is getting the guider settings dialed in for Maxim. Since the Atik has no ST4 output, I'm having to use ascom direct to send guide movement commands to the mount. It's going to take trial and error. The guide corrections look like big swings of -.5 to + 2 pixels yet the image FWHM on a long exposure is excellent.
Using guider relays I would immediately think I was over correcting, but the image says otherwise. Complicate it with encoders....
As soon as I get it figured out I'll make a video and hopefully do a live demo on the Astro imaging channel if they will let me! With current El NiƱo pattern, I'm in for a winter without a lot of imaging.
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#13 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 07:45 PM

You can use AOX with ONAG, but I don't have enough back focus as I can't remove the rotator since on the RCOS the field corrector is built into it. ONAG actually makes the AOX work better. SBIG is working on preconfigured setup last I heard. 

The FWHM is equivalent to what we get with AOX with very similar seeing. It's too early to make a definitive statement, but on the surface, the ONAG is working just as the AOX on this setup and these conditions. Our main goal was to get rid of rotation and OAG as they are a planning PIA at 3750 mm. Mosaics and flats now become easy. Again, one night is not enough to say 100% there's fine tuning to be done



#14 Corsica

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 07:47 PM

I take it you can't use the AOX if you are using the focus software? That looks like a rotator in front of the ONAG?

 

SBIG AO units only work with SBIG cameras and Maxim DL when using a SBIG AO does not export the guide star images for other applications, such as FocusLock.

Doug Jorge and his team are working to support the ONAG+FL with any SBIG AO. Maxim DL will eventually exports guide star images while running an AO, such as an AOX, allowing FL to provide continuous real time auto-focus with SBIG AO.

Also larger SBIG cameras and their main chips will become available for controlling SIBG AO for robotic and remote operations, which in turn will provide associated with an ONAG a large guiding FOV without any part in motion (such rotation) for the sake of guide star management.



#15 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 08:10 PM

Mr. Miller,

I take it you can't use the AOX if you are using the focus software? That looks like a rotator in front of the ONAG? 

Are you contributing the 1.8 FHWM to the ONAG? Are you saying you never got that kind of FWHM #'s with the AO? (contaminating ONAG purchase) 

Ken Crawford, Jimmy Walker.. who's next, Barrack Obama on the White House lawn? :)

 

Sorry, I didn't answer the other question. At this point we are not using the focuslock software as one change at a time. That being said, there may be no real gain to the software for us as RCOS ION Milled optics have almost no change in focus over the course of the evening. If I was imaging with an SCT or lower quality glass, I'd be using the software in a second.



#16 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:13 PM

How bright is the guide star? Well in a guider image taken with M74 centered, ACP had about 15-20 stars to choose from in the FOV with a 5 sec exposure. ACP will automatically adjust the guide star exposure based on min-max parameters I have set on length, SNR, and Flux. In my case I currently have the minimum exposure set to 3 seconds, which may be too long. As mentioned earlier, I'm still playing with settings to get the best balance. M 74 In my FOV, there is not a star brighter than 9.1 and most are 10.5 plus

 

 

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#17 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:26 PM

Although I should not be shooting RGB right now with moon conditions, I wanted to give an idea of FWHM as measured by CCD Stack on an image shot a few minutes ago. Seeing is currently at 1.5 and humidity is 74%. To give you an idea of how much moon light is actually effecting imaging right now, the second pic is the shadows on equipment being cast from moon light.

 

 

 

 

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#18 jhayes_tucson

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 10:40 PM

Mike,

That's looking really good!  I love your image scale and I can't wait to see a stacked image.  I'll have to post an image of my FLI system+ONAG when I get it up and running.

John



#19 gezak22

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:21 PM

This is excellent. I have an ONAG in mind for my first long fl setup even though many people advise against it.



#20 TestnDoc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:34 PM

I just got my ONAG XM. I am waiting on adapter for my Lodestar X2. What guide camera are you using Mike?



#21 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:42 PM

I went with the Atik 460. That would be overkill for many users so don't read much into that choice. I wanted the largest Sony chip I could get for reasons that don't apply to most users. if I had one comment, good riddens OAG and rotation! 


Edited by vpcirc, 17 December 2015 - 11:43 PM.

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#22 vpcirc

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 11:44 PM

This is excellent. I have an ONAG in mind for my first long fl setup even though many people advise against it.

Don't listen to that advice. I'll soon post video showing this is a no brainier. 



#23 Corsica

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 02:24 AM

 

 

I take it you can't use the AOX if you are using the focus software? That looks like a rotator in front of the ONAG?


SBIG AO units only work with SBIG cameras and Maxim DL when using a SBIG AO does not export the guide star images for other applications, such as FocusLock.
Doug Jorge and his team are working to support the ONAG+FL with any SBIG AO. Maxim DL will eventually exports guide star images while running an AO, such as an AOX, allowing FL to provide continuous real time auto-focus with SBIG AO.
Also larger SBIG cameras and their main chips will become available for controlling SIBG AO for robotic and remote operations, which in turn will provide associated with an ONAG a large guiding FOV without any part in motion (such rotation) for the sake of guide star management.

Will it work with an Starlight Xpress AO? I wonder.. Maybe the clear aperture on the SX AO is too small? The SX AO can work with any camera.

 

 

When using an ONAG the AO unit is placed in front of the ONAG such both cameras can see it.
The ONAG XM supports any AO (SBIG, SX, Orion) with proper adapters (it has integrated #6-32 threaded holes for the AO-L), the ONAG SC too, excepted the AO-L due it L-shape form factor.

SXV-AO-LF has a 60mm clear aperture. Eventually any AO units supported by Maxim DL would be usable with FL when DL would have released the modification discussed above (I do not have any date I could share yet).
When connecting any guider with an ASCOM driver to any imaging/guiding software, the camera can be shared with FL through the OPTEC ASCOM server.



#24 vpcirc

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 05:14 AM

Here's a good pic of an image linked photo. The FWHM measured in ccd stack is 1.88. I had a 8.9 mag star to guide on so the image is great. Video link to follow if it ever gets done in YouTube  ;)

 

The Video when done (please check later as it will be  6 hours ) is supposed to be here https://youtu.be/Cmltzbg9q00

 

I increased the guide star up to 400% later to show it's distorting slightly from seeing, but it's really not moving and guiding the mount perfectly. It gives an idea of star brightness on an 8.99 mag as seen through the NIR passing through the ONAG.

 

Not that I doubt Gaston, but seeing his demo with an artificial star is one thing....... Seeing actual field use that most of us can relate to is a little more solid evidence for this show me state boy! 

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Edited by vpcirc, 18 December 2015 - 05:23 AM.


#25 TestnDoc

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 09:36 AM

This is very exciting. Please keep the posts and videos coming!




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