20 replies to this topic

[rigelsys]

Anybody looked this one over?

 

http://www.ebay.com/...0oAAOSwCQNWdJqt

 

[rolo]

Yes we've all seen it. Interest seems to have gone down on these old C8's for some reason. I have one from the same year I think it # 469 or so.

[Ben H]

1) Anyone and everyone who really and truly wants a classic C8 can and has acquired a classic C8

 

2) That particular example is in some of the worst shape I've seen this year, barring the DX8 that's been left outside for ages and ages

 

3) Finding a match for the Velvetone paint on these early C8s will likely cost as much as the scope itself

[kansas skies]

If it wasn't for what appears to be liquid damage, I'd consider buying this C8 as a backup to the one I have now. 

 

Bill

[Joe1950]

But the headline on ebay says it is an F/1. Very few of those were made. 

 

 

 

I've seen used scopes on ebay selling for hundreds more than the same model new. They sometimes try to hose the ones who don't know what they are buying.

Edited by Joe1950, 23 December 2015 - 06:16 PM.

[rolo]

If it wasn't for what appears to be liquid damage, I'd consider buying this C8 as a backup to the one I have now. 

 

Bill

All of these velevetone C8's look bad cause of the poor paint. Who cares? Its all about the condition and performance of the optics! Here's mine, it has some of the best  optics I've seen in a C8 (#466) and its the reason I still have it. Its a real sleeper at star parties putting newer models to shame...I also have a C5 which I did restore but without the Velvegarbage paint.

Attached Thumbnails

• 
• 

Edited by rolo, 23 December 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[Gil V]

That C5 is gorgeous.

[tim53]

3M said that Celestron didn't mix or apply the paint properly.  I think they're right.  When I restored Tinky (#135), I had a hard time tracking the paint down, and when I did (it's owned by Mankewicz in Germany, if I have that spelled right, and they call it Nextel suede, and it comes in the original colors), I found that I could only buy it in gallon kits at over $300/kit (paint and catalyst).  So I had a local auto paint store custom match the color chips for me in House of Kolor automotive paint, which I then overcoated with Alsacorp's clear "soft feel" paint.  Now it looks and feels like an original tricolor I met 45 years ago!      It's also got the best optics of any SCT I've owned.

 

 

 

[tim53]

If I didn't have so many projects, I'd like to try another restoration of a tricolor again.  That was fun tracking that stuff down.  If enough people wanted to repaint old tricolors, I could see us buying the Nextel paints.  But you'd really need to have a lot to restore.  I only bought half pint quantities of custom mixed paint, and that was expensive enough.  There might be enough to do one more, but I'm really low on the Dark Anthracite (base and cell color).  The right thing to have done would have been to have more mixed and just deal with the added cost.  I promised what I have left to Dave Groski, but I've never figured out how to ship already-opened and unlabelled paint cans.  

 

Here's a before and after pair of Tinky.  See if you can guess which one's which!  :

 

[DAVIDG]

Plasti Dip  makes a matte clear soft finish (11209)  that is similar to Alsa "feel soft" paint. It comes in a spray can for only a few bucks. I got a can to try when I restore the two tricolar C-8 and my tricolor C-5. I plan to do what Tim did and the local paint store color match the original colors from Nextel and spray over them with the Plasti Dip material to give it that velvet/soft feel like the original  3M Velvetone paint.

 

                   - Dave 

[rolo]

That C5 is gorgeous.

It is now...I'm not concerned about getting a headache looking for the perfect paint cause they're not going to be worth much anyways.

Attached Thumbnails

• 
• 
• 
• 

Edited by rolo, 23 December 2015 - 11:39 PM.

[rigelsys]

Given what Voyager 1 and Vanguard and Turk and others have achieved, it looks like the way to go! When classic cars are restored, they don't worry about whether the "old" paint is preserved or the car is repainted with a recreation of the original paint or that original chrome is preserved among the rust spots. They repaint them with modern paints, rechrome, restore. Just google "car restoration before and after" and look at the images.   Or heck, check out the pink panther :-)

[Geo31]

Given what Voyager 1 and Vanguard and Turk and others have achieved, it looks like the way to go! When classic cars are restored, they don't worry about whether the "old" paint is preserved or the car is repainted with a recreation of the original paint or that original chrome is preserved among the rust spots. They repaint them with modern paints, rechrome, restore. Just google "car restoration before and after" and look at the images.   Or heck, check out the pink panther :-)

 

Um.....  NO.  Let me repeat....  NO!!!!

 

The automotive collector market has undergone a tremendous change.  Originality, even if in less than ideal condition, it KEY.  I know discussions of car is borderline with the mods, but the similarities are there.  Automotive preservation is now VERY in.  There are those now who have NO interest in the beyond pristine uber restorations.

 

Original paint and other materials is HIGHLY valued today.  Next is accurate reproduction of the original paint, etc.

 

While the automotive market is not the telescope market, IMHO the automotive vintage market points the direction for the vintage telescope market.  That said, there is seldom one clear cut answer.  My own Broadhurst Clarkson scope will undergo a restoration instead of preservation because IMHO the current condition is one of apathetic neglect rather than loving ownership.

[rolo]

Depends on the vehicle. Some RestoMods are worth more than in their original condition. These are telescope and the same applies. Some people like patina some don't some pay more for fully restored, some pay more for original condition. For a scope like this C8 who cares, it will never be worth a fortune so why spend that on a restoration? If it was a Clark sure and I mean a real Clark not Lundin Clark!

[tim53]

Given what Voyager 1 and Vanguard and Turk and others have achieved, it looks like the way to go! When classic cars are restored, they don't worry about whether the "old" paint is preserved or the car is repainted with a recreation of the original paint or that original chrome is preserved among the rust spots. They repaint them with modern paints, rechrome, restore. Just google "car restoration before and after" and look at the images.   Or heck, check out the pink panther :-)

They do for a serious restoration of a very rare car.

 

My Model A panel truck could use a repaint.  But nitrocellulose lacquer is impossible to find anymore, especially in So Cal, unless you're restoring old guitars or other "small" items.  

 

There are some good modern paints, of course, but they require more work than the good ol' lacquer finishes did.

 

-Tim.

[DAVIDG]

 For anyone that wants to restore one of these tricolor scopes and get a paint finish and color close to the original without breaking the bank here the approach  that both Tim and I took. Here is the  link  to the Nextel paint that is the same as the original 3M "velvetone" http://www.nextel-co...ult.asp?lng=eng What both Tim and I did is get the brochure from Nextel that has the paint color chips in it. Go down to your local paint store and have them color match a good enamel to the three original colors. It cost me about $40 for the three colors I needed. The issue is getting the  soft, rubbery feel that the original finish had. Tim went will the Alsa " Feel Soft" product, which is about $100 that was sprayed over the color coat.  I kept digging around and found the Plasti Dip product in a spray  can for $10, which just came out. I still need to restore the three tricolor scopes I have but this approach looks to be one that will get me close to the original finish.

 

                      - Dave 

Edited by DAVIDG, 24 December 2015 - 12:44 PM.

[tim53]

Good to hear, Dave.  I don't feel so bad now for not sending you what I had left over like I promised years ago!

 

I still wonder if there are any tricolor C-14s around?  Has anyone ever seen one?  Because I keep wondering if, after all the C-8 paint jobs were failing, if Celestron recalled the C14s and repainted them?

 

-Tim.

[Geo31]

Depends on the vehicle. Some RestoMods are worth more than in their original condition. These are telescope and the same applies. Some people like patina some don't some pay more for fully restored, some pay more for original condition. For a scope like this C8 who cares, it will never be worth a fortune so why spend that on a restoration? If it was a Clark sure and I mean a real Clark not Lundin Clark!

 

You are correct.  However, my response was to a statement that was an absolute that was not only incorrect, but also did not recognize the current trend.

 

Some things should be restored and some should be simply preserved.  Sometimes the decision is more clear than others.  A Ferrari 250GTO with race history that has not be utterly neglected probably ought to simply be preserved.  One that shows signs of abuse or severe neglect probably ought to be restored.

 

A C8, even a tri-color is not exactly a rare museum piece.  I'd personally restore it.  After much deliberation, I've decided to restore my Broadhurst Clarkson because, even though the particular model is somewhat more rare (3.5") than some others, it shows signs of severe neglect as opposed to signs of loving use through the years.  My Celsterion RVC-6N is a restomod scope.  But RV-6s aren't exactly rare and other than the primary, will be period-correct (and quite useful as completed).  Dang, I need to get back to work on that, but the weather has been too cold and/or humid to do so.

[rolo]

 

Depends on the vehicle. Some RestoMods are worth more than in their original condition. These are telescope and the same applies. Some people like patina some don't some pay more for fully restored, some pay more for original condition. For a scope like this C8 who cares, it will never be worth a fortune so why spend that on a restoration? If it was a Clark sure and I mean a real Clark not Lundin Clark!

 

You are correct.  However, my response was to a statement that was an absolute that was not only incorrect, but also did not recognize the current trend.

 

Some things should be restored and some should be simply preserved.  Sometimes the decision is more clear than others.  A Ferrari 250GTO with race history that has not be utterly neglected probably ought to simply be preserved.  One that shows signs of abuse or severe neglect probably ought to be restored.

 

A C8, even a tri-color is not exactly a rare museum piece.  I'd personally restore it.  After much deliberation, I've decided to restore my Broadhurst Clarkson because, even though the particular model is somewhat more rare (3.5") than some others, it shows signs of severe neglect as opposed to signs of loving use through the years.  My Celsterion RVC-6N is a restomod scope.  But RV-6s aren't exactly rare and other than the primary, will be period-correct (and quite useful as completed).  Dang, I need to get back to work on that, but the weather has been too cold and/or humid to do so.

 

The Broadhurst Clarkson is a worthwhile restoration project for sure. If I had the Ferrari 250GTO I probably wouldn't be on these forums!

[rigelsys]

May this is getting to be a ford vs chevy,  pepsi vs coke discussion!!!

 

However, let's look at some "rare classic" restorations :-)  with new paint, polished brass, and clean components.

 

http://loen.ucolick....eport_Final.pdf

 

http://www.azcentral...opens/71801772/

 

http://www.wellesley...itin/alvanclark

[tim53]

Granted, a C-8, even an early tricolor, is nothing compared to an observatory refractor from the 19th century.

 

Tinky does have the distinction - and I the satisfaction - that it's the first commercial telescope to win a merit award at RTMC for the paint replication