54 replies to this topic

[FcoRod]

Is there a difference in quality of products between these two chinese (PRC) companies? Is one "better" than the other at making apo scopes?

[OrionSword]

My guess would be Sharpstar as their components are used by Stellarvue and Telescope Service.  Not aware of any direct vendor for them available in the USA.  Stellarvue does their own grading of the objective elements for quality control.

[hottr6]

My guess would be Sharpstar as their components are used by Stellarvue and Telescope Service.  Not aware of any direct vendor for them available in the USA.  Stellarvue does their own grading of the objective elements for quality control.

Now I am confused.  I thought Stellarvue sourced their gear from Kunming.  

[KevH]

Both SV and TS source from both Kunming and Sharpstar. I've never owned a Sharpstar scope but the several Kunmings I've owned have all been quite decent to excellent.

[OrionSword]

 

My guess would be Sharpstar as their components are used by Stellarvue and Telescope Service.  Not aware of any direct vendor for them available in the USA.  Stellarvue does their own grading of the objective elements for quality control.

Now I am confused.  I thought Stellarvue sourced their gear from Kunming.  

 

 

Most of the comments/rumors I've read leaned towards Sharpstar.  Plus when you compare the SV models on the Sharpstar site you will see they a closer resemblance and specs except for in-house mods.  Just the same I am not aware of a direct source in the US for either.

[FcoRod]

Anybody know if this apo is Kunming? It's not a Sharpstar, I'm pretty certain.

 

http://www.teleskop-...PA-focuser.html

 

The price seems very low for an FPL-53 triplet with a 130mm aperture.

[nicknacknock]

Anybody know if this apo is Kunming? It's not a Sharpstar, I'm pretty certain.

 

http://www.teleskop-...PA-focuser.html

 

The price seems very low for an FPL-53 triplet with a 130mm aperture.

 

Actually does look like a Kumming model. This one.

[FcoRod]

 

Anybody know if this apo is Kunming? It's not a Sharpstar, I'm pretty certain.

 

http://www.teleskop-...PA-focuser.html

 

The price seems very low for an FPL-53 triplet with a 130mm aperture.

 

Actually does look like a Kumming model. This one.

 

 

Yeah, I was looking at that earlier. However, the Kunming website doesn't specify glass composition. And the focuser is not the same as the one on the TS apo. Still, Euro 1,999 / 1.19 = Euro 1,679 (before shipping) for an FPL-53 triplet? Something doesn't quite add up. 

[nicknacknock]

The scope on Kumming Optics website is the basic model. As an OEM, Kumming will then customize the scope with whatever logos, focuser, rings e.t.c. the reseller will specify.

 

As for the glass, it has been a subject for discussion here on CN with no definitive answer. Nobody had taken the plunge and then send the lens assembly for testing. TS is a reputable dealer but mistakes do happen in product descriptions occasionally. 

 

Best send an email to inquire. Also keep in mind that they recently dropped the price so they are probably letting go of the last pieces. And since you are considering the price in USD, I assume you are based in the US. If this is the case, then you should also remove the VAT from the selling price - so it's working out really cheap.

 

I inquired once and Herr Rohr charges EUR 120 to test telescopes if you are interested.....

[OrionSword]

 

 

Anybody know if this apo is Kunming? It's not a Sharpstar, I'm pretty certain.

 

http://www.teleskop-...PA-focuser.html

 

The price seems very low for an FPL-53 triplet with a 130mm aperture.

 

Actually does look like a Kumming model. This one.

 

 

Yeah, I was looking at that earlier. However, the Kunming website doesn't specify glass composition. And the focuser is not the same as the one on the TS apo. Still, Euro 1,999 / 1.19 = Euro 1,679 (before shipping) for an FPL-53 triplet? Something doesn't quite add up. 

 

 

 

The Euro to dollar exchange rate:  1,999 Euros= $2,171 USD, plus exchange fee and shipping.

Edited by OrionSword, 03 January 2016 - 11:05 AM.

[nicknacknock]

 

 

 

Anybody know if this apo is Kunming? It's not a Sharpstar, I'm pretty certain.

 

http://www.teleskop-...PA-focuser.html

 

The price seems very low for an FPL-53 triplet with a 130mm aperture.

 

Actually does look like a Kumming model. This one.

 

 

Yeah, I was looking at that earlier. However, the Kunming website doesn't specify glass composition. And the focuser is not the same as the one on the TS apo. Still, Euro 1,999 / 1.19 = Euro 1,679 (before shipping) for an FPL-53 triplet? Something doesn't quite add up. 

 

 

 

The Euro to dollar exchange rate:  1,999 Euros= $2,171 USD, plus exchange fee and shipping.

 

 

But take out 19% for VAT and then add back shipping so it is $1,824 before shipping cost.

[stevew]

I own two Kunming scopes that I enjoy.

An 80mm ED labelled as a Lunt that has good optics, but shows minor over correction, and a 110mm ED doublet labeled as an Orion Premium 110 ED, that has an excellent figure showing next to near perfect diffraction rings on both sides of focus.

They have better mechanics than the typical Synta manufactured scope, and very good but not perfect color correction.

 

I would have no problem buying another Kumning United telescope, whether it was labeled as a Lunt, Stellarvue, or Orion.

 

Steve

[carlcat]

Anybody know if this apo is Kunming? It's not a Sharpstar, I'm pretty certain.
 
http://www.teleskop-...PA-focuser.html
 
The price seems very low for an FPL-53 triplet with a 130mm aperture.

 
Actually does look like a Kumming model. This one.

 
Yeah, I was looking at that earlier. However, the Kunming website doesn't specify glass composition. And the focuser is not the same as the one on the TS apo. Still, Euro 1,999 / 1.19 = Euro 1,679 (before shipping) for an FPL-53 triplet? Something doesn't quite add up.

I was looking at the same scope and posted this thread:
http://www.cloudynig...-of-this-scope/

From what I could figure out, there was some doubt as to whether they used FPL-53 or not and if they did, what quality FPL it was.
One person in Switzerland emailed me and said he bought this scope and liked it very much but he couldn't tell me anything definitive so I decided to back out and wait for reviews of the AT's scopes and the APM 140 FPL-53 doublet. If you do get this scope, let us know your impressions.

[jrbarnett]

My guess would be Sharpstar as their components are used by Stellarvue and Telescope Service.  Not aware of any direct vendor for them available in the USA.  Stellarvue does their own grading of the objective elements for quality control.

Stellarvue also sells lots of Kunming scopes, rebranded.  More Kunming creations, probably, than Sharpstar.

 

My sense is that Kunming is larger and tends to make more lower end and mid ranged products than high end - i.e., volume lines.  Sharpstar seems more focused on upper mid range scopes using more costly materials, often targeted at imagers.

 

I wouldn't put too much credence in rebrander claims of optics testing and the like.  There are only so many hours in a year and once a rebrander is selling several thousand units a year, short of having a time machine, quaint notions of comprehensive testing of each unit seem rather improbable and uneconomic.

 

It's the manufacturer's QC that matters since they, unlike the rebrander, actually have the knowledge, skill and equipment to design and manufacture the optics - testing being an integral task of optics manufacturing.  Rebranders are like automotive dealerships.  No one believes that the dealership plays a material role in the design and engineering of the vehicles they sell.  Some dealers, though, are able to service the models they sell, in house.

 

Having owned scopes from both companies, in general I think the Sharpstars are better figured though the Kunmings have gotten quite good.  They weren't always as good though.

 

Regards,

 

Jim

[jrbarnett]

Anybody know if this apo is Kunming? It's not a Sharpstar, I'm pretty certain.

 

http://www.teleskop-...PA-focuser.html

 

The price seems very low for an FPL-53 triplet with a 130mm aperture.

It is a Kunming.  Though listed as being FPL-53, no one else selling the Kunming f/7 130mm offers a model using FPL-53.  While you might be able to substitute like glasses such as FPL-51 and KFK-61, swapping out the FPL-51 center element for an FPL-53 element does not work.  The rest of the OG would have to be modified to accommodate the change, and doing such custom design work for a single model sold by a single rebrander ought to cost much, much more than the standard model using cheaper ED glass.

 

My assumption is either (a) TS made a mistake in the listing, (b) TS' supplier mis identified the OG composition in something it sent TS, or © TS bought a handful of prototype units that were never made into official models from Kunming at a very low price, and is able to pass along the savings.

 

When something seems too good to be true, it usually isn't true.  I'm betting (a), though I haven't called TS to see whether they will confirm FPL-53,  If I were interested in the scope, though, I would, and I would get the name, title and qualifications of the individual I talked too, as well as their e-mail address, and would confirm whatever they told me verbally by follow-up e-mail.  That way if there's ever any cause to quarrel over the scope later, no one pulls and Oliver North forgets who said what to whom.  

 

Regards,

 

Jim

[jrbarnett]

 

My guess would be Sharpstar as their components are used by Stellarvue and Telescope Service.  Not aware of any direct vendor for them available in the USA.  Stellarvue does their own grading of the objective elements for quality control.

Now I am confused.  I thought Stellarvue sourced their gear from Kunming.  

 

They do.  They source most of their lower end scopes and a few mid level models from Kunming.  They get all of their second brand (Astrotelescopes) from Kunming as well.  They also source some mid-level models from Sharpstar.  They are a rebrander and therefore are not limited to any one manufacturer.  Other rebranders sell a mix of Kunming and non-Kunming designs too.  Orion, Astro-Tech, TS, Altair Astro, APM, William Optics, etc., etc.

 

- Jim 

[OrionSword]

 

 

My guess would be Sharpstar as their components are used by Stellarvue and Telescope Service.  Not aware of any direct vendor for them available in the USA.  Stellarvue does their own grading of the objective elements for quality control.

Now I am confused.  I thought Stellarvue sourced their gear from Kunming.  

 

They do.  They source most of their lower end scopes and a few mid level models from Kunming.  They get all of their second brand (Astrotelescopes) from Kunming as well.  They also source some mid-level models from Sharpstar.  They are a rebrander and therefore are not limited to any one manufacturer.  Other rebranders sell a mix of Kunming and non-Kunming designs too.  Orion, Astro-Tech, TS, Altair Astro, APM, William Optics, etc., etc.

 

- Jim 

 

 

Hi Jim,

 

Well sorting through this stuff is almost like going through a family tree.  I did take a look at Sky-Watcher Esprit series and there was zero mention of their glass choices for that line.  Is Telescope Service the closest for sourcing SharpStar?

 

g'day to ya,

Bill

[jrbarnett]

 

 

 

My guess would be Sharpstar as their components are used by Stellarvue and Telescope Service.  Not aware of any direct vendor for them available in the USA.  Stellarvue does their own grading of the objective elements for quality control.

Now I am confused.  I thought Stellarvue sourced their gear from Kunming.  

 

They do.  They source most of their lower end scopes and a few mid level models from Kunming.  They get all of their second brand (Astrotelescopes) from Kunming as well.  They also source some mid-level models from Sharpstar.  They are a rebrander and therefore are not limited to any one manufacturer.  Other rebranders sell a mix of Kunming and non-Kunming designs too.  Orion, Astro-Tech, TS, Altair Astro, APM, William Optics, etc., etc.

 

- Jim 

 

 

Hi Jim,

 

Well sorting through this stuff is almost like going through a family tree.  I did take a look at Sky-Watcher Esprit series and there was zero mention of their glass choices for that line.  Is Telescope Service the closest for sourcing SharpStar?

 

g'day to ya,

Bill

 

Actually I believe you can buy directly from Sharpstar if you like.

 

http://www.sharpstar...p?c=msg&id=117

 

Scroll down and you'll see an "order online" button.

 

I've also seen ads for their products on Alibaba and other  China commerce sites.

 

Regards,

 

Jim

[olivdeso]

TS have modified the 130F7 formula from wide air spaced FK61 to narrow air spaced FPL53 about a year ago.

At that time they said the FK61 wide air spaced had even better color correction than the fpl53, but it was dificult to find a compatible field flatener.

Markus also sells it :


http://forum.astrono...0mm_f/7_Triplet

Now TS sells another 130 @ f6.6 at a much higher price, which looks like a sharpstar


http://forum.astrono..._F7_Triplet_APO

Edited by olivdeso, 04 January 2016 - 02:58 AM.

[rkayakr]

 

Actually I believe you can buy directly from Sharpstar if you like.

 

http://www.sharpstar...p?c=msg&id=117

 

Scroll down and you'll see an "order online" button.

 

I've also seen ads for their products on Alibaba and other  China commerce sites.

 

Regards,

 

Jim

 

And the're free - price listed as $0.00

[Sky Muse]

Yet another, and with FPL-51... http://www.altairast...riplet-apo.html

[range88]

 

Anybody know if this apo is Kunming? It's not a Sharpstar, I'm pretty certain.

 

http://www.teleskop-...PA-focuser.html

 

The price seems very low for an FPL-53 triplet with a 130mm aperture.

It is a Kunming.  Though listed as being FPL-53, no one else selling the Kunming f/7 130mm offers a model using FPL-53.  While you might be able to substitute like glasses such as FPL-51 and KFK-61, swapping out the FPL-51 center element for an FPL-53 element does not work.  The rest of the OG would have to be modified to accommodate the change, and doing such custom design work for a single model sold by a single rebrander ought to cost much, much more than the standard model using cheaper ED glass.

 

My assumption is either (a) TS made a mistake in the listing, (b) TS' supplier mis identified the OG composition in something it sent TS, or © TS bought a handful of prototype units that were never made into official models from Kunming at a very low price, and is able to pass along the savings.

 

When something seems too good to be true, it usually isn't true.  I'm betting (a), though I haven't called TS to see whether they will confirm FPL-53,  If I were interested in the scope, though, I would, and I would get the name, title and qualifications of the individual I talked too, as well as their e-mail address, and would confirm whatever they told me verbally by follow-up e-mail.  That way if there's ever any cause to quarrel over the scope later, no one pulls and Oliver North forgets who said what to whom.  

 

Regards,

 

Jim

 

 

There may be some old models which use FPL53, but the newer ones are definitely FPL51.

[OrionSword]

 

 

 

 

Anybody know if this apo is Kunming? It's not a Sharpstar, I'm pretty certain.

 

http://www.teleskop-...PA-focuser.html

 

The price seems very low for an FPL-53 triplet with a 130mm aperture.

 

Actually does look like a Kumming model. This one.

 

 

Yeah, I was looking at that earlier. However, the Kunming website doesn't specify glass composition. And the focuser is not the same as the one on the TS apo. Still, Euro 1,999 / 1.19 = Euro 1,679 (before shipping) for an FPL-53 triplet? Something doesn't quite add up. 

 

 

 

The Euro to dollar exchange rate:  1,999 Euros= $2,171 USD, plus exchange fee and shipping.

 

 

But take out 19% for VAT and then add back shipping so it is $1,824 before shipping cost.

 

 

It also appears that one would also have to pay Customs duties and fees as well whatever that works out to be:

 

http://www.cbp.gov/t...ernet-purchases

[nicknacknock]

I admit to not knowing the customs and taxes on your side of the pond, but from many other threads on CN, from what I gather imports from Germany up to a very generous limit do not attract customs duties. 

 

Take this with a huge grain of salt and best to enquire first of course!

[OrionSword]

I admit to not knowing the customs and taxes on your side of the pond, but from many other threads on CN, from what I gather imports from Germany up to a very generous limit do not attract customs duties. 

 

Take me with a huge grain of salt and best to enquire first of course!

 

 

Well I wondered alright because another thread on here said to add another $200 for Custom's duties and fees when ordering from Telescope Service.  Wish a US purchaser would step up to the plate and break down the costs from a real experience order.