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What camera to buy for observing DSO's?

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134 replies to this topic

#126 A. Viegas

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 06:09 PM

Carl is right.   Even looking through an eyepiece and trying averted vision probably takes up 20-60 seconds...  (I wish I remember, but have not used an eyepiece in such a long time, I may be mistaken! hehe :lol: )

So if you are talking about seeing an object in 30s or even 60s  that is definitely EAA.    Even with my old MCX icx418 I routinely go 30-60s all the time.  And if I am stacking 3-5 frames it can add up.  But the first image appears almost always before a minute as gone by...

By that reckoning, every single camera we have discussed in EAA fits the bill. From the high end Ultrastrar, Atik 414 or even sony A7 camera, down the lowly LN300 clones at $99...

Al


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#127 DSO_Viewer

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 06:17 PM

 

 

DSO-Viewer, before you stop commenting, I would genuinely like to know how you would define "the shortest duration possible".

 

Martin

Martin I mean in seconds and not minutes. This minute thing 2, 3, 4 etc. is more to me like imaging and I know that the technology is not there yet unless your using a lower resolution Xterminator or Lodestar X2

 

 

 

DSO-Viewer, before you stop commenting, I would genuinely like to know how you would define "the shortest duration possible".

 

Martin

Martin I mean in seconds and not minutes. This minute thing 2, 3, 4 etc. is more to me like imaging and I know that the technology is not there yet unless your using a lower resolution Xterminator or Lodestar X2

 

 

 

DSO-Viewer, before you stop commenting, I would genuinely like to know how you would define "the shortest duration possible".

 

Martin

Martin I mean in seconds and not minutes. This minute thing 2, 3, 4 etc. is more to me like imaging and I know that the technology is not there yet unless your using a lower resolution Xterminator or Lodestar X2

 

Just to add my bit. AP is hours of exposure and hours of processing later.

 

I use an Infinity and LN 300 anything I look at appears in seconds on the screen then it just gets better no processing at all. So if getting the finest detail out of an object whilst you look at the screen  over a couple of minutes is too long I really wonder what you are looking for?

 

Even the higher priced 825 colour cams will still see more than the eye in seconds and I know this as fact.

 

Carl

 

Carl right now my expectations are way beyond what is capable but this is what I think EAA should be like IMHO. I like the Sony A7X video capable mode that shows some brighter DSO's in real time like 1/4 sec but one must have a super fast focal ratio. I think this live to near-live (10 secs or less) is the future ticket in the not too distant future. For now the Xterminator, Lodestar X2 and A7S (but requires too much cropping) comes as close to this scenario as possible in this present time. 



#128 Carlscope

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 07:25 PM

 

 

 

DSO-Viewer, before you stop commenting, I would genuinely like to know how you would define "the shortest duration possible".

 

Martin

Martin I mean in seconds and not minutes. This minute thing 2, 3, 4 etc. is more to me like imaging and I know that the technology is not there yet unless your using a lower resolution Xterminator or Lodestar X2

 

 

 

DSO-Viewer, before you stop commenting, I would genuinely like to know how you would define "the shortest duration possible".

 

Martin

Martin I mean in seconds and not minutes. This minute thing 2, 3, 4 etc. is more to me like imaging and I know that the technology is not there yet unless your using a lower resolution Xterminator or Lodestar X2

 

 

 

DSO-Viewer, before you stop commenting, I would genuinely like to know how you would define "the shortest duration possible".

 

Martin

Martin I mean in seconds and not minutes. This minute thing 2, 3, 4 etc. is more to me like imaging and I know that the technology is not there yet unless your using a lower resolution Xterminator or Lodestar X2

 

Just to add my bit. AP is hours of exposure and hours of processing later.

 

I use an Infinity and LN 300 anything I look at appears in seconds on the screen then it just gets better no processing at all. So if getting the finest detail out of an object whilst you look at the screen  over a couple of minutes is too long I really wonder what you are looking for?

 

Even the higher priced 825 colour cams will still see more than the eye in seconds and I know this as fact.

 

Carl

 

Carl right now my expectations are way beyond what is capable but this is what I think EAA should be like IMHO. I like the Sony A7X video capable mode that shows some brighter DSO's in real time like 1/4 sec but one must have a super fast focal ratio. I think this live to near-live (10 secs or less) is the future ticket in the not too distant future. For now the Xterminator, Lodestar X2 and A7S (but requires too much cropping) comes as close to this scenario as possible in this present time. 

 

Yes I would agree what your looking for is a good few years away at least but what are you going to do in that time? Use one of the current models or wait for the holy grail?

 

Personally I think Video/EAA users have done more to drive camera tech in the last number of years than any other branch of the sport.

 

For your end game I would also consider that even the holy grail of cams needs an equal lens/scope or it is blind.

 

Carl 



#129 DSO_Viewer

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 07:52 PM

 

 

 

 

DSO-Viewer, before you stop commenting, I would genuinely like to know how you would define "the shortest duration possible".

 

Martin

Martin I mean in seconds and not minutes. This minute thing 2, 3, 4 etc. is more to me like imaging and I know that the technology is not there yet unless your using a lower resolution Xterminator or Lodestar X2

 

 

 

DSO-Viewer, before you stop commenting, I would genuinely like to know how you would define "the shortest duration possible".

 

Martin

Martin I mean in seconds and not minutes. This minute thing 2, 3, 4 etc. is more to me like imaging and I know that the technology is not there yet unless your using a lower resolution Xterminator or Lodestar X2

 

 

 

DSO-Viewer, before you stop commenting, I would genuinely like to know how you would define "the shortest duration possible".

 

Martin

Martin I mean in seconds and not minutes. This minute thing 2, 3, 4 etc. is more to me like imaging and I know that the technology is not there yet unless your using a lower resolution Xterminator or Lodestar X2

 

Just to add my bit. AP is hours of exposure and hours of processing later.

 

I use an Infinity and LN 300 anything I look at appears in seconds on the screen then it just gets better no processing at all. So if getting the finest detail out of an object whilst you look at the screen  over a couple of minutes is too long I really wonder what you are looking for?

 

Even the higher priced 825 colour cams will still see more than the eye in seconds and I know this as fact.

 

Carl

 

Carl right now my expectations are way beyond what is capable but this is what I think EAA should be like IMHO. I like the Sony A7X video capable mode that shows some brighter DSO's in real time like 1/4 sec but one must have a super fast focal ratio. I think this live to near-live (10 secs or less) is the future ticket in the not too distant future. For now the Xterminator, Lodestar X2 and A7S (but requires too much cropping) comes as close to this scenario as possible in this present time. 

 

Yes I would agree what your looking for is a good few years away at least but what are you going to do in that time? Use one of the current models or wait for the holy grail?

 

Personally I think Video/EAA users have done more to drive camera tech in the last number of years than any other branch of the sport.

 

For your end game I would also consider that even the holy grail of cams needs an equal lens/scope or it is blind.

 

Carl 

 

Yes Carl I will wait for that holly grail and in the mean time either the Atik Infinity or Xterminator is looking nice but have to see what is best for my setup.


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#130 Relativist

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 09:26 PM

 

 

 

That's not true at all, you don't need super fast focal ratios. What you might learn from experience is that what we do because we want fast results often involves compromises. For example, with my MCX2 I like having the gain at the maximum setting of 8 which makes the amp glow show up quite a lot. but because I get to see an object fast and lessen the effect of mount errors I am ok with that compromise. Likewise the A7s has a compromise in that you can't use the entire 12 megapixels. The only way to know for your scope is to ask someone that has the same camera and scope how much they will have to crop. With the Lodestar you don't have a gain option (although there are other things available like gamma stretching).

 

My point is they all have their compromises. Your scope can illuminate more than other 11" SCTs, so you will gain much more than others.

 

lastly you should also consider the NV route as well.

 

So far, I am finding the Sony camera experience the easiest to do EAA activities with wireless to my iPad.


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#131 t_image

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 03:20 AM

As far as cropping,

If you can connect your refractor with a 2" you will have no need to crop.

 

 

....... you don't need super fast focal ratios.

With a fast focal ratio (f 2.8 or better) the a7s is pretty much an image intensifier in live video, so with what DSO is expecting he is correct.

The Sony a7s is a better match for refractors,

However have you seen this with an astrograph? from CN's own Mark Shelley:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=z80vnWCLc3o



#132 MDavid

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 09:04 AM

As far as cropping,

If you can connect your refractor with a 2" you will have no need to crop.

 

 

....... you don't need super fast focal ratios.

With a fast focal ratio (f 2.8 or better) the a7s is pretty much an image intensifier in live video, so with what DSO is expecting he is correct.

The Sony a7s is a better match for refractors,

However have you seen this with an astrograph? from CN's own Mark Shelley:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=z80vnWCLc3o

 

WOW! that video is impressive...Very much an enhance eyepiece like experience.



#133 Censustaker

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 10:34 AM

Wow! Unbelievable

#134 ensign

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 04:19 PM

Well put, Carl.

 

For our outreach program at the Mauna Kea VIS here in Hawaii, we are using both the Lodestar and Ultrastar.  The displayed single images of DSO's are produced in 30 seconds or less and the visitors are in awe.  We only stack when we want to save the image for future use.  We do use a C14 with Hyperstar.  At F1.9, the system is incredibly fast.

And your skies are what most of us can't even imagine until we've experienced them.  As a visitor, I'd be in awe the moment I stepped out of my vehicle and looked up.



#135 Don Rudny

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Posted 17 February 2016 - 04:45 PM

Mike,

 

How true.  I encourage everyone to visit this wonderful place and enjoy the night skies.  It is "Clearly, the Best".

 

Don


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