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Eyepiece question for APM 100mm APos

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#1 Skittersqueek

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 04:25 PM

After getting the oberwerk ultra 15x70s I realized I should of just went with my gut and purchased what I wanted to begin with, that being said I literally just pulled the trigger and purchased the APM 100mm 45 degree binos with bonoptic fork II and cannot wait!!!

 

The only question I have for the cloudynights community is I am going to be purchasing one or two sets of eye pieces for this as it pretty much is clearing my bank for pleasure spending... Down the road I will purchase more eyepieces but for the first pair I want what you guys would consider the most useful for observing clusters, nebula, and planets.

 

As of now I am either going with the docter 12.5mm which for two is a pretty penny... or I can get panoptic 24mm tele vues and one other set to compliment for the same price as a set of the docters.  

 

Any suggestions? :cool:

 

Thanks!

Skitter



#2 GamesForOne

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 05:31 PM

I'd go for the pair of 24 Pans and then something in the 10-12mm range such as TeleVue Delos 10mm or my personal favorite with the 100mm APO binos: a pair of 10mm Pentax XWs.

 

If you have a 2.5x TeleVue Powermate (late model with no extending lens out the barrel), then you can buy another and use for higher magnifications for Moon or planet viewing. The 2.5x Powermates work with my 10mm Pentax XWs.

 

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Edited by GamesForOne, 21 January 2016 - 05:36 PM.


#3 junomike

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 05:34 PM

If I was starting over, I'd go with the 12.5mm Doc's and 19mm Pans. (12mm Delos are a good budget alternative to the Doc's).

 

Mike


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#4 Allardk

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 05:41 PM

I use on my APM 100-45 APO the Pentax XW14 and 20, Televue Delos 17.3 and the Docter 12.5. The best IMO and most used by me are the Docters. Gives you 44x and about 2 degrees FOV. Works for most objects. Check it with Astronomy apps like SkySafari, where you can superimpose/set any Field of View.

 

For wide viees it seems the Pan 24 is good, ask mr. Bill. I think he's quite happy with the ES 20 as well (not too expensive).

 

 

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#5 Skittersqueek

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:08 PM

Yea I keep leaning towards to docters and if I can get away with just using that set for a while I would be happy... Although not buying those affords me two different sets of eye sets that I could get more uses out of... But all you docter lovers keep making me just want to grab those.

 

19mm panoptics and 12mm delos sounds pretty nice though I have been checking those out.



#6 GamesForOne

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 10:57 PM

Depends on how much eye relief you prefer. The 19 Pans are nice EPs, but the eye relief is too tight for me and I don't care for the pin cushion effect while panning. If you don't require much eye relief, the Nagler Type 6 series would be a good value.

 

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#7 Mad Matt

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 12:22 AM

The only eyepieces you ever need for the APM APO's are the Docters :-)

Many of my observing sessions are done with only them. The only problem is that they are very expensive.

I am sure you are aware of Televue's and other alternatives. Have a look at the new Baader Morpheus. They look promising and, although they don't have the impressive wide FOV the Docters provide, the have very similar ergonomics which I think is important. The 9mm is on my radar for purchase this spring.

Edited by Mad Matt, 22 January 2016 - 12:24 AM.

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#8 Allardk

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:07 AM

Agree..

Start with the Docters. Maybe later you want/need one or 2 more sets, depending you want a bit more or less magnification etc.

Baader is recommended by Mark Ludes from APM.

From the past I already had more eyepieces. For this BT the 12.5 from Docter can be your main piece. Sharp till the edge/fieldstop. AFOV over 84 degrees, your eyes need to exercise to even see the edge :-) 

Around 44x is where this BT shines anyway and 2 degrees FOv frames many objects.


Edited by Allardk, 22 January 2016 - 09:00 AM.

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#9 Skittersqueek

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:36 AM

I think I am leaning towards the docters more and more... question though will the powermates work with the docters?



#10 garret

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:42 AM

 

or I can get panoptic 24mm tele vues and one other set to compliment for the same price as a set of the docters.

I have also purchased the 45 degree APM (at the Christmas sale at APM).

I sold my 24 Panoptics and have on order the Vixen 22mm LVW, what I get and what I want is the widest view possible (2.4 degree, almost the 3 stars of Orion's Belt) ) and a long eye-relief because of my glasses.

I already own the 18 and 12 mm Radian, and on my wish list is the 6mm Radian (only used!) or Delos ($$).

 

I have just finished the construction of the mount, based on a telescopic Pier (in his third life!) and a 15 year old Manfrotto 503 head, with two extra counterweight.

 

Garret van der Veen, The Netherlands

 

 

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Edited by garret, 22 January 2016 - 02:59 AM.

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#11 Skittersqueek

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 03:20 AM

Holy Crap I wish I would of seen that Christmas sale.... 2300.00! Ugh that makes me sick to my stomach... Oh well maybe I can ask him to sell those docters at Christmas price to me ;).



#12 garret

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 05:26 AM

 

Holy Crap I wish I would of seen that Christmas sale.... 2300.00! Ugh that makes me sick to my stomach... Oh well maybe I can ask him to sell those docters at Christmas price to me ;).

If you tell to Ludes Markus (APM) your are (already) writing a good and positive review here on Cloudynights and other astro-forums about the APM bino and more you sure get a lower price!

 

Garret



#13 Allardk

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 09:07 AM

Powermates and Docters ? Cannot tell. Depending you want to go much higher magnification I would suggest a second dedicated pair. The Docters are heavy eyepieces and with Powermates it becomes quite a heavy bulky set. 

What max magnification are you like looking for ?



#14 Mad Matt

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 09:22 AM

I don't think using the Powermates would be mechanically sound enough. As mentioned by Allardk, The Docters are pretty heavy and the Powermates would multiply the leverage they apply on the focusers. The result would be loss of collimation.

 

Also the 12.5mm Docter with the 2.5x Powermates is 110x with an 0.9mm exit pupil... That is really only useful on the moon and planets.



#15 GamesForOne

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 01:15 PM

I don't think using the Powermates would be mechanically sound enough. As mentioned by Allardk, The Docters are pretty heavy and the Powermates would multiply the leverage they apply on the focusers. The result would be loss of collimation.

 

Also the 12.5mm Docter with the 2.5x Powermates is 110x with an 0.9mm exit pupil... That is really only useful on the moon and planets.

 

The Powermates are plenty sound enough for my Pentax XW 10 pair. It is a heavy load on the turret end which can upset the balance on a fluid head, but I've had few problems with collimation issues at 137x using this combo (I maybe had to reseat the combination a couple of times, most often it just works). The OP said he wanted the option of higher magnifications for Moon and planets -- this is one option that works for me.

 

Be sure to get the recent vintage 2.5x Powermate with the flat insertion end with no barrel protrusion (i.e. it looks like a standard 1.25" barrel on the insertion end). The 5x Powermate is shorter and likely even more secure, although I only have one in my arsenal at present. The 5x Powermate works well with my Pentax XW 20 in the bino.

 

I can't answer the question of whether the Powermates will focus with the Docter 12.5.

 

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Edited by GamesForOne, 22 January 2016 - 01:19 PM.


#16 oldmanrick

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 02:53 PM

I purchased the Lunt 100mm 45 degree APO's last fall.  First eyepieces I tried were the 7mm Delites.  They were good, but I wanted something giving a wider view, and easier eye placement.  I have deep-set eyes, so for me, IPD and eye relief are critical.  I had read very good reviews and user reports for the Doctor's, and they sounded ideal for my needs.  Luckily, I found a used set of the Doctor's here in the classified section, saving me a bundle of money.  They have proven to be great, and I can't imagine a better set of eyepieces for the big Lunt bino's, for my all around use needs.  They are great for terrestrial use, and for astronomy too.  They are very bright, and do have some light scatter, but if I ever get around to getting them, a set of planetary filters should help this. 

 

The Doctor's reside on my binoc's about 80 to 90 percent of the time I use them. 

 

I do plan  on getting something lower in power, with a wider field later on, maybe the Baader Morpheus 17.5 if reviews and testing sound good, when they become available.

 

Rick



#17 Mr. Bill

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 03:28 PM

After getting the oberwerk ultra 15x70s I realized I should of just went with my gut and purchased what I wanted to begin with, that being said I literally just pulled the trigger and purchased the APM 100mm 45 degree binos with bonoptic fork II and cannot wait!!!

 

The only question I have for the cloudynights community is I am going to be purchasing one or two sets of eye pieces for this as it pretty much is clearing my bank for pleasure spending... Down the road I will purchase more eyepieces but for the first pair I want what you guys would consider the most useful for observing clusters, nebula, and planets.

 

As of now I am either going with the docter 12.5mm which for two is a pretty penny... or I can get panoptic 24mm tele vues and one other set to compliment for the same price as a set of the docters.  

 

Any suggestions? :cool:

 

Thanks!

Skitter

 

For newer APM APOs with smaller rear prism aperture  (mine is 25mm) the 24 Pans with 27mm fieldstop will vignette significantly....I don't recommend.

 

The 19 Pans or ES 20mm (68 degrees) are good choices for low power.

 

The 18.2mm DeLites have a smaller apparent fov (62 degrees) are excellent.

 

For medium power, the Docters are good; my personal choice is the 13mm Nagler.

 

My choice for high power is the 7mm DeLite.


Edited by Mr. Bill, 22 January 2016 - 03:29 PM.


#18 trener

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 08:51 PM

And that vignette is your fault Mr Bill. Your review triggered Markus Ludes to change field stop to 23mm which did not help with the finger nails but made 24mm Panoptics to vignette significantly. Very bad change.



#19 saguaro

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 11:00 PM

For my APM 100mm 90-degree binos, I tried a pair of the 7mm DeLites but the ergonomics didn't work for me. I found the tops of them were too wide for my 62mm IPD, so I returned them for a pair of 7mm Naglers. My pairs are the 24mm Pans, and 13mm, 9mm, and 7mm Naglers. I find the Naglers very comfortable to use, but I don't wear glasses so I don't need lots of eye relief. My most used pairs are the 13mm and 9mm Naglers.


Edited by saguaro, 22 January 2016 - 11:06 PM.


#20 junomike

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 11:45 PM

And that vignette is your fault Mr Bill. Your review triggered Markus Ludes to change field stop to 23mm which did not help with the finger nails but made 24mm Panoptics to vignette significantly. Very bad change.

Not so sure you can blame the "messenger" on this one?

Also, I thought the FS was removable?

For what it's worth, I find my (original/first release) APM 100 Semi Apo's  fine using the 24mm Pans (not sure of the FS in them however).  Minimal Vignetting.

 

Mike



#21 Mr. Bill

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 11:50 PM

 

And that vignette is your fault Mr Bill. Your review triggered Markus Ludes to change field stop to 23mm which did not help with the finger nails but made 24mm Panoptics to vignette significantly. Very bad change.

Not so sure you can blame the "messenger" on this one?

Also, I thought the FS was removable?

For what it's worth, I find my (original/first release) APM 100 Semi Apo's  fine using the 24mm Pans (not sure of the FS in them however).  Minimal Vignetting.

 

Mike

 

 

I suspect you also have 25mm. There is a bit of vignetting with the 25mm as 24Pans have a 27mm fieldstop.



#22 Mad Matt

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 01:16 AM

i have the 23mm stops and have never noticed the vignetting in neither my 24mm ES68's nor my 32mm Plossl.

Of course that may only be because I never looked for it :)

#23 Mr. Bill

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 01:36 AM

i have the 23mm stops and have never noticed the vignetting in neither my 24mm ES68's nor my 32mm Plossl.

Of course that may only be because I never looked for it :)

 

Vignetting shows up as a fuzzy fieldstop with gradual edge of field darkening.



#24 garret

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 02:46 AM

 

Vignetting shows up as a fuzzy fieldstop with gradual edge of field darkening

 

With my 32mm TV Plossl the fieldstop of the eyepiece is not visible, (you can just see it in broad daylight) the fuzzy edge is the fieldstop of the APM.

the apparent field of the eyepiece is therefore not 50 degree but slightly smaller; 48 degree.

 

Garret



#25 Mad Matt

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 03:09 AM

Vignetting shows up as a fuzzy fieldstop with gradual edge of field darkening.

Don't get me wrong Bill, I am by no means doubting you. I just think the degree as to which this is noticable and problematic depends upon the observer and eyepiece. I don't recall the field stop of my Baader 32mm ploessl (27mm field stop) nor the 24mm ES (27.2mm FS) being fuzzy or invisible. Having said that, please bear in mind that I don't do a lot of scanning or comet hunting with these. I think that was referred to as being a "Target Observer" :) In the comet scanning scenario, at your level of observing, and with TV eyepieces it may be more noticable too you than it is for the casual observer like myself :-)

The reason I am so verbose on this is when I was researching CN before buying mine, all these posts about vigetting almost discouraged me from purchasing. I am glad I choose to ignore it because, as with all things Internet, it is difficult to determine how something someone has experienced will effect one personally.

I guess I should count myself as very lucky that I don't notice this. My own ignorance can indeed be very blissful :)

Edited by Mad Matt, 23 January 2016 - 03:17 AM.



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