Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Orion XT 8 or XT10 Thoughts please.

  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 Carina1

Carina1

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 118
  • Joined: 22 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Vic , Australia.

Posted 04 February 2016 - 11:24 PM

Hi all,
So thinking of these two telescopes , Orion Skyquest XT8G or the XT10 G not as a travel scope just to use in the backyard . Darkish skies but my main interest is planets, Moon , brighter DSO and double stars.

The scope would be stored in the back yard shed but carried out a small distance to view. I prefer to move the scope in one piece.

In the 10, I would be happy to use a Paracorr , I also have to sets of older type EP and just happy to keep using them.

My budget is about those types of scopes not high end Refactors.

I would be happy with the XT 8 and no need for a Paracorr, and it would be easier to move.

But my question is is the 10 that much bigger to move ? I can't see the views being that much different, that what I have viewed over the years.

I thought about the XT12 but I do think it will be just to big and heavy and if that is the case I will be less inclined to use it.

Interested in those who have used both XT 8 and
XT10

Many thanks.

David.


Edited by Carina1, 04 February 2016 - 11:25 PM.


#2 Zapp Brannigan

Zapp Brannigan

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,139
  • Joined: 10 Jan 2016
  • Loc: Suburbs of Reading PA

Posted 04 February 2016 - 11:41 PM

I'm 5'11, 240#, and unless my XT10 is on wheels, moving it as an assembly isn't going to happen, especially through doors.  It's not the weight so much that is an issue, it's the awkward bulk of the assembly.  It's not designed like the smaller versions to be carried.  In fact, managing the tube alone is awkward in itself.  I'd be afraid of damaging it.  I put handles on mine to make moving and setting it into the rocker box much easier. Now if you can use a dolly or cart, no sweat. Roll it out of the shed and set it on the ground. 



#3 RAKing

RAKing

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,735
  • Joined: 28 Dec 2007
  • Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula

Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:49 AM

I second what Zapp says.

 

I used to have an XT10 and I used to have an XT12. I still have an XT8.  The views through the 10 (and 12) were great (with a Paracorr), but the weight and bulk eventually got to me and I had to downsize. You have already eliminated the 12, but the 10 is definitely bulkier and harder to manage than the 8. None of my scopes were GOTO versions and the added weight of that base would be a non-starter for me.

 

If you can put the beast on a dolly or a cart and wheel it around... that is a different story.

 

Ron



#4 LivingNDixie

LivingNDixie

    TSP Chowhound

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 19,276
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003
  • Loc: Trussville, AL

Posted 05 February 2016 - 09:36 AM

I have the XT8 non goto. I can pick it up easily as one assembly. Personally I would get the 8in if it is just going to be a second scope for quick peeks.

#5 Abhat

Abhat

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,250
  • Joined: 14 Dec 2013
  • Loc: Central Maryland, USA

Posted 05 February 2016 - 10:07 AM

I have the XT8 non goto. I can pick it up easily as one assembly. Personally I would get the 8in if it is just going to be a second scope for quick peeks.

I have Zhumell Z8. I find it quite heavy/awkward to lift is as one piece. Have you made nay mods to make lifting easier? 



#6 tomykay12

tomykay12

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,949
  • Joined: 22 Apr 2012
  • Loc: San Diego

Posted 05 February 2016 - 12:09 PM

Newish xt10i owner here; I think the 10" is a sweet spot between aperture and awkward. Anything bigger for me would be a truss type. I move my 10" in one piece about 20' to observe, and it's not bad. Everyone is different, for sure. I would get the most aperture you can stand, lol, tk



#7 spencerj

spencerj

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,812
  • Joined: 17 Nov 2004
  • Loc: Londonderry, NH

Posted 05 February 2016 - 01:10 PM

Bright DSOs, planets, double stars . . . if those are your main interests, the XT8 would fit well.  Having owned both, I found that I really enjoyed the F6 focal ratio.  It is easier to collimate to tolerances that are needed for fine planetary detail, you don't need to worry about a paracor, and an 8" F6 is easier to manufacture (maybe that leads to less sample-to-sample variation).  Plus it is easier to move around in one piece.  

 

I found that the XT8 was really a joy to use and I kind of regretted selling mine to upgrade to a 10".  Sure the 10" went a bit deeper, but there are trade-offs.  For me one trade off was I no longer had the nicely figured 8" F6 mirror.  Instead I had a kind-of-OK 10" F4.7 mirror that no matter how well collimated with Cat's Eye collimation tools including the auto collimator never really had the same snap to focus the 8" F6 had, especially on planets.  And by the way I used to collimate the XT8 with a cheap site tube and the collimation cap that came free with the scope.    

 

If your main focus is galaxy hunting, then by all means get the most aperture you can drag around.  If your main interest is truly what you stated, strongly consider the 8" F6 scope.


  • scotsman328i likes this

#8 KerryR

KerryR

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,894
  • Joined: 05 Dec 2007
  • Loc: West Michigan

Posted 05 February 2016 - 01:14 PM

Whichever scope you get, add a garage door handle to the top of the OTA at the COG to make it easy to carry, same for the base if it doesn't already have one. That way, you can carry the base in one hand, and the OTA in the other quite easily.

 

But, I find that it's just easier to do things in 2 trips, no matter what scope I'm using, unless no standard sized doors (or escaping pets) are involved.

 

I'd get the 10", and just resort to 2 trips. This is the easiest solution with the best light grasp. It won't really harm your observing time by more than a minute at worst, and it'll make things much easier on you. Even with the 8", 2 trips will be far more comfortable, so I really wouldn't make a single trip THAT much of a priority.



#9 Max T

Max T

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 192
  • Joined: 20 Jan 2011

Posted 05 February 2016 - 02:18 PM

I’ve only owned an 8” but have looked through 10”s, so you can imagine how defensive I’ve become!  ;)
Well, here are a few reasons to buy an 8”:

# We know the 8” views are less impacted by slight miscollimation during the moving of the scope than a 10” is, so you can get away with not collimating it on some nights if you don’t feel like it.    Also the 8” is around 4kgs lighter.
These two combined mean less set up hassle so you will use the 8” more often (this counts a lot if you a bit tired after working full-time).
Make a 15mm plywood base for the 8” and it then weighs only 14kg; a single handed grab and go.

# 8” is more likely to perform on more nights to its full capability than a 10” is.    Because besides the collimation, the 10” mirror would produce a thicker boundary layer on a night with falling temps (most nights) than an 8” because the thinner 8” can track temperature more closely (typically the 10” mirror is double the mass of an 8” and c.30mm+ thick versus 20-25mm of the 8”).
A 10” would benefit from a fan (and batteries, more set up time etc.).    An 8” can perform well enough without.

# If you’re concerned about light grasp in the 8”, it’s only 56% less than a 10” which isn’t much.    Effort put into avoiding nearby lights around you to dark adapt more, using a head shroud, flocking and baffling the 8” along with a light shield to reduce stray light… and you’ll soon be matching an *unmodified* 10” no problem.
An 8” puts a lifetime of objects in view (well, maybe 15 keen yrs).

# Also your observing preferences and light pollution suggests that the 8” would be ideal and a 10” superfluous to needs.
And you can always take the 8” to a dark site occasionally for a real treat.

Finally, you mention “older type EPs” and so this thread should be interesting:
http://www.cloudynig...ensive-plossls/

 

Good luck. :)


  • Carina1 likes this

#10 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 84,089
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 05 February 2016 - 03:10 PM

David:

 

We all have different capabilities, situations, thresholds, interests.. This how I see it, my story:

 

13 years ago I had an ,XT-8 and a 12.5 inch Discovery. I saw an Astromart ad for a 10 inch F/5 GSO Dob at a good price that was in driving distance. I jumped on it. It needed some sorting out but it has been winner that I still use and enjoy.

 

The XT-8 sat in the corner unused. Eventually I donated it to a fledgling astronomy club. Since, at least four 8 inch F/6 Dobs have come and gone.

 

The reason is simple: I could never find a reason to choose an 8 inch F/6 when the 10 inch F/5 was right there and waiting. The 10 inch is heavier but not by much. It is only an inch or so longer to it fits in the car with similar ease. Collimation is straightforward for both, the 12.5 inch is F/4.06, I have the skills and tools. I do have a Paracorr and the good eyepieces, though that was not always the case.  What it came down to is that the 56% greater light gathering, the potential of 25% better resolution on doubles and the planets, why choose the 8 inch for the evening when I had the 10 inch???

 

I think a 10 inch is a sweet spot, big enough to be very capable but not so big as to be a challenge to move or transport.

 

That's how it works for me.. I am not afraid to move a relatively large scope, the view through the eyepiece makes the effort worthwhile. I move the 10 inch in two trips, it just so easy. Larger scopes I put on wheels, a dolly but mostly wheel barrow handles. A GOTO Dob has a heavy base compared to a standard Dob, your scope will be in a shed, wheel barrow handles are worth considering..

 

In your situation, I would think about the 12 inch.. I'd be paying mostly for the GOTO so pay somewhat more and get the more potent optics as well.

 

Jon

 

 


  • Scanning4Comets , KerryR, tomykay12 and 1 other like this

#11 LivingNDixie

LivingNDixie

    TSP Chowhound

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 19,276
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2003
  • Loc: Trussville, AL

Posted 05 February 2016 - 09:49 PM


I have the XT8 non goto. I can pick it up easily as one assembly. Personally I would get the 8in if it is just going to be a second scope for quick peeks.

I have Zhumell Z8. I find it quite heavy/awkward to lift is as one piece. Have you made nay mods to make lifting easier?

The springs I think make the difference, I can pick up the scope and just prop it up and lean it on my shoulder. However when I take it out to the car I do it in two pieces.

#12 Carina1

Carina1

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 118
  • Joined: 22 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Vic , Australia.

Posted 05 February 2016 - 10:18 PM

Hi all many thanks for the replies,

Karl thanks for the link to that thread as well. My older EP are the Meade series 4000 UWA and they really should work well in the XT10 with out the Paracorr ! 

Im looking at the GoTo versions of either scope so that will make the base heavy so that is my concern with the 10"

As much as I would love the extra light of the bigger scopes I may just get more use out of the XT8 

i will look at the specs again on both scopes and see what I'm happy to lift for me really no more than 25 kg that's about 55pounds? I'm not getting any younger and my philosophy is no matter the size of the scope the best one is the one you use the most, I feel I'm talking myself into the 8" ! 

 

Cheers, thanks David. 



#13 Sky Muse

Sky Muse

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,353
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2012
  • Loc: Mid-South, U.S.

Posted 05 February 2016 - 10:30 PM

A 10" compared to an 8" doesn't seem like that much of a difference, until perhaps having a look at this...

 

10-8 comparison.jpg

 

The increase in light-gathering area is readily apparent.  The 7mm circle in red illustrates the maximum diameter of the dark-adapted pupil of the human eye.

 

A 10" f/5 Newtonian would simulate an 8" f/6 refractor... https://www.optcorp....r-wxt204-6.html ...but without the chromatic aberration, or false colour when viewing brighter objects.  Newtonians are inherently apochromatic, or colour-free.

 

The 10" is for those who want more than the typical 8", but are not quite certain if the performance of a 12" is worth the increase in handling.

 

A 10" Newtonian on a Dobson-mount is the smallest of the range which includes those of up to 50", apparently... http://telescopes.ne...-telescope.html

 

Then, if you get the 8" instead, you may forever wonder what the 10" might've been like... http://www.andrewsco...0-guansheng.htm


Edited by Sky Muse, 05 February 2016 - 10:40 PM.


#14 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 84,089
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 06 February 2016 - 12:02 AM

i will look at the specs again on both scopes and see what I'm happy to lift for me really no more than 25 kg that's about 55pounds? I'm not getting any younger and my philosophy is no matter the size of the scope the best one is the one you use the most, I feel I'm talking myself into the 8" !

 

 

Moving a scope doesnt necessarily mean lifting it.  

 

Jon


  • JaredLeeNewton likes this

#15 Carina1

Carina1

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 118
  • Joined: 22 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Vic , Australia.

Posted 06 February 2016 - 01:38 AM

 

i will look at the specs again on both scopes and see what I'm happy to lift for me really no more than 25 kg that's about 55pounds? I'm not getting any younger and my philosophy is no matter the size of the scope the best one is the one you use the most, I feel I'm talking myself into the 8" !

 

 

Moving a scope doesnt necessarily mean lifting it.  

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon,

true and I'm looking around on the net about this. Where I will be storing the scope has about a 1.5 meter wide door way and height in the shed around 2 meters just under, so I could wheel a bit bigger scope in and out.

 So I may look around how to wheel a 10" around, but if that is the case does this open up to a 12" ?? 

 I have seen how those Obsession scopes are moved and we have SDM scopes here they are moved the same way .

but how does one move these heavy Orion scopes? 

Thanks 

David.


Edited by Carina1, 06 February 2016 - 01:39 AM.


#16 Max T

Max T

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 192
  • Joined: 20 Jan 2011

Posted 06 February 2016 - 04:23 AM

Maybe decide the biggest aperture you can afford and handle… and then buy the next size down.

 

That is to protect us from these factors which can nudge us into buying too big a scope:

 

# We always overestimate our capacity to handle a big scope.     At the end of your normal day, lift one or two bags holding a weight that equals the scope and carry them from storage to your viewing place.     Sit outside for an hour in the cold and tired.   Now carry the two bags back to storage.     Repeat a few more nights and then decide.

 

# We tend to overspend on the initial purchase without considering the long term subtle costs like “bought a 10”… so I bought a paracorr… bought premium EPs… bought an 80mm refractor as the 10” was too cumbersome…made a wheel trolley for the 10”… bought a 14” (instead of a 12” after an 8”)… bought a slightly bigger next car..."

 

# We overweigh the vivid evidence, like seeing blue circles on a forum showing how a 10” diameter is bigger than an 8”.

 

# We’re easily swayed by authority figures who don’t know our own life busy-ness away from astronomy.      Forum regulars may often recommend one aperture size too big for us, because they’ve arranged life better to fit around that bigger scope and they’re doing the nice thing of recommending to you the same source of their own personal happiness.

 

# We’re misled by anchoring our judgement to all the other sizes of that scope category.    So an 8” dob seems small when dobs go from 4” to 32”.    But compared to all scope types, 8” of aperture or roughly a 6” refractor is huge.

 

# Finally the regret notion of “you’ll always be wondering what the views in the next bigger size would look like.”      How do we really think this?    Since if you’re upgrading from a smaller scope, any aperture bigger than what you currently have is wonderful.    If you’re downsizing from one scope, you've tested the loss of light grasp with an aperture mask.    If you’re adding to a collection, you already have a bigger scope.

 

The biggest factor in deciding on which scope to buy is how it will fit in your overall life.    That is something none of us can answer.       

For example, I’ve considered only having a 6” f8 for the next 10 years; it can be 9kgs for easy carrying down stairs, it can be designed to cool as fast as a doublet refractor, it's the equivalent aperture to a decent-sized 115mm refractor, very aesthetic views are easy to produce, it rarely needs collimating and keeps you in touch with astronomy when the rest of life may get a little hectic.

 

Perhaps get the next size down from the biggest you could realistically manage.

Best wishes.


Edited by Max T, 06 February 2016 - 05:16 AM.

  • gene 4181 likes this

#17 Scanning4Comets

Scanning4Comets

    Markus, a.k.a. Scanning4Comets

  • *****
  • Posts: 17,938
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2004

Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:18 AM

If it were me, I would get the 10".

 

I am only 5' tall and I carry a 10" solid tube out my door, then I go back for the mount......I wouldn't worry about taking it in one fell swoop......a 10" really begins to shine in darker skies more than the 8"

 

:grin:

 

Here's mine from last Monday night testing my 5mm XW on Jupiter.....glad I went out even though it was cold.....I haven't been out in two months!!!!! 

Attached Thumbnails

  • 10 inch scope in yard.JPG


#18 Scanning4Comets

Scanning4Comets

    Markus, a.k.a. Scanning4Comets

  • *****
  • Posts: 17,938
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2004

Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:20 AM

Here's Jupiter from that night....

 

I'm not an artist, so please excuse my crude sketch....

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Jupiter Feb 2 2016.JPG


#19 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 84,089
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:41 AM

 

 

i will look at the specs again on both scopes and see what I'm happy to lift for me really no more than 25 kg that's about 55pounds? I'm not getting any younger and my philosophy is no matter the size of the scope the best one is the one you use the most, I feel I'm talking myself into the 8" !

 

 

Moving a scope doesnt necessarily mean lifting it.  

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon,

true and I'm looking around on the net about this. Where I will be storing the scope has about a 1.5 meter wide door way and height in the shed around 2 meters just under, so I could wheel a bit bigger scope in and out.

 So I may look around how to wheel a 10" around, but if that is the case does this open up to a 12" ?? 

 I have seen how those Obsession scopes are moved and we have SDM scopes here they are moved the same way .

but how does one move these heavy Orion scopes? 

Thanks 

David.

 

 

David:

 

Why not move you scope with wheel barrow handles?  There are also other schemes, dollys and even wheels attached to the rocker box.  Myself, I use the wheel barrow handles, my big scope came with them, I have make 2 more sets for two other scopes.. I am 67, even an older guy like me can move a good sized scope with the right equipment.

 

Jon

6255551-Obsession lifting by handles CN.jpg

 

Jon


  • Scanning4Comets , sopticals, tomykay12 and 1 other like this

#20 Sky Muse

Sky Muse

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,353
  • Joined: 26 Oct 2012
  • Loc: Mid-South, U.S.

Posted 06 February 2016 - 08:08 AM

That would be: "Junior", eh?


  • Jon Isaacs and gene 4181 like this

#21 kfiscus

kfiscus

    Baltic Birch Dob Bases

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 6,802
  • Joined: 09 Jul 2012
  • Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA

Posted 06 February 2016 - 09:56 AM

Well, Jon's a good-sized guy.  If that was my scope it would have to have a different name, "Brutus" perhaps.


  • Jon Isaacs and Scanning4Comets like this

#22 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 84,089
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 06 February 2016 - 02:04 PM

Well, Jon's a good-sized guy.  If that was my scope it would have to have a different name, "Brutus" perhaps.

 

Junior just seemed right..  You know the scene..

 

Bob is trying to pick a fight with Sam.. Sam wants no part of it. 

 

Sam calls for his son Junior, "Hey Junior, Bob wants to talk to you!"

 

Pretty soon Junior comes lumbering around the corner, all 6 foot 9 and 295 pounds and says; "You wanted something dad?"

 

That's Junior..

 

I don't want this getting off topic. I just wanted to show that with the right setup, even a senior citizen like me can manage a pretty good sized scope.

 

Jon


  • Scanning4Comets and Sky Muse like this

#23 Scanning4Comets

Scanning4Comets

    Markus, a.k.a. Scanning4Comets

  • *****
  • Posts: 17,938
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2004

Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:08 PM

 

 

 

i will look at the specs again on both scopes and see what I'm happy to lift for me really no more than 25 kg that's about 55pounds? I'm not getting any younger and my philosophy is no matter the size of the scope the best one is the one you use the most, I feel I'm talking myself into the 8" !

 

 

Moving a scope doesnt necessarily mean lifting it.  

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon,

true and I'm looking around on the net about this. Where I will be storing the scope has about a 1.5 meter wide door way and height in the shed around 2 meters just under, so I could wheel a bit bigger scope in and out.

 So I may look around how to wheel a 10" around, but if that is the case does this open up to a 12" ?? 

 I have seen how those Obsession scopes are moved and we have SDM scopes here they are moved the same way .

but how does one move these heavy Orion scopes? 

Thanks 

David.

 

 

David:

 

Why not move you scope with wheel barrow handles?  There are also other schemes, dollys and even wheels attached to the rocker box.  Myself, I use the wheel barrow handles, my big scope came with them, I have make 2 more sets for two other scopes.. I am 67, even an older guy like me can move a good sized scope with the right equipment.

 

Jon

 

 

Jon

 

 

:bigshock:



#24 Carina1

Carina1

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 118
  • Joined: 22 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Vic , Australia.

Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:52 PM

Thanks for the replies, wheel barrow handles on dig Dobs I have seen many times but I have never seen them on the newer XT Go To Orion Skyquests models has anyone done this? 

 

If I have to carry or lift and move the scope I think I will go with the XT 8 but if I can attach wheel barrow handles or look at some sort of trolley I think I will step to the XT 10 and even consider the 12 would have to re measure the storage space for the 12. 

 

Thanks, David.



#25 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 84,089
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:48 PM

Thanks for the replies, wheel barrow handles on dig Dobs I have seen many times but I have never seen them on the newer XT Go To Orion Skyquests models has anyone done this? 

 

If I have to carry or lift and move the scope I think I will go with the XT 8 but if I can attach wheel barrow handles or look at some sort of trolley I think I will step to the XT 10 and even consider the 12 would have to re measure the storage space for the 12. 

 

Thanks, David.

 

David.. It is doable, you just need to figure out how to attach the handles.  You might start a thread about moving a 10 or 12 inch GOTO Dob. Photos of your yard and shed would be useful.

 

Jon




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics