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Video Heads for large binoculars

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#51 Stellarfire

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 01:53 PM

Thank you, Allardk, for the helpful info!

 

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#52 Allardk

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 03:27 AM

It was Range88 who told me this "secret". Even the dealer did not know it. He tried it out for me, emailed me and then I bought the Cartoni Focus HD. 

So, the nice thing is you can use it in a bowl or flat base tripod. In case of Manfrotto (I think it was the 504) you need a big clumsy bowl to flat base converter.


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#53 Allardk

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 03:36 AM

Not at home, but have this picture of the Focus HD without the bowl rod...

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#54 Stellarfire

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 08:12 AM

Anybody out there who owns the Cartoni Gamma fluid head? Spec max. payload 37 lbs., weight 7.7 lbs. The Cartoni Gamma description mentions: "for additional tilt matching the –90° angle, an ultra light sliding plate is available (view Gamma 90°)". So the Gamma could be used +/-90°.

 

Not sure but seems that the Gamma is a quality step over the Focus series, it has a body of magnesium alloy, instead a plastic body as the Focus series. The Gamma would be slightly "oversized" for the APM 120, but this should result in a stability benefit.

 

Cartoni sells also a 3/8" Adapter for the Gamma fluid head. Regarding the Adapter, no further details are given on Cartoni webpage.

 

Would be interested in any experiences with the Gamma. And in particular if the head can be safely mounted onto a flat tripod base, using a 3/8" bolt (without the standard 100mm bowl).

 

 

Stellarfire

 

 



#55 range88

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 08:34 AM

Anybody out there who owns the Cartoni Gamma fluid head? Spec max. payload 37 lbs., weight 7.7 lbs. The Cartoni Gamma description mentions: "for additional tilt matching the –90° angle, an ultra light sliding plate is available (view Gamma 90°)". So the Gamma could be used +/-90°.

 

Not sure but seems that the Gamma is a quality step over the Focus series, it has a body of magnesium alloy, instead a plastic body as the Focus series. The Gamma would be slightly "oversized" for the APM 120, but this should result in a stability benefit.

 

Cartoni sells also a 3/8" Adapter for the Gamma fluid head. Regarding the Adapter, no further details are given on Cartoni webpage.

 

Would be interested in any experiences with the Gamma. And in particular if the head can be safely mounted onto a flat tripod base, using a 3/8" bolt (without the standard 100mm bowl).

 

 

Stellarfire

Focus series all have magnesium body, only the knobs and levers are plastic.

BTW, the new Focus series employs some kind of innovative laboratory plastic which according to them is even better than metal.



#56 Stellarfire

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 10:20 AM

 

Anybody out there who owns the Cartoni Gamma fluid head? Spec max. payload 37 lbs., weight 7.7 lbs. The Cartoni Gamma description mentions: "for additional tilt matching the –90° angle, an ultra light sliding plate is available (view Gamma 90°)". So the Gamma could be used +/-90°.

 

Not sure but seems that the Gamma is a quality step over the Focus series, it has a body of magnesium alloy, instead a plastic body as the Focus series. The Gamma would be slightly "oversized" for the APM 120, but this should result in a stability benefit.

 

Cartoni sells also a 3/8" Adapter for the Gamma fluid head. Regarding the Adapter, no further details are given on Cartoni webpage.

 

Would be interested in any experiences with the Gamma. And in particular if the head can be safely mounted onto a flat tripod base, using a 3/8" bolt (without the standard 100mm bowl).

 

 

Stellarfire

Focus series all have magnesium body, only the knobs and levers are plastic.

BTW, the new Focus series employs some kind of innovative laboratory plastic which according to them is even better than metal.

 

 

Thanks for the Cartoni Focus series magnesium body info.

 

Checking the net, looks as some Focus users are complaining about repeatedly broken plastic knobs. Apart of this issue, they look fine, apparently offering good value for the money.

 

Still unclear is if Focus 18 & 22 or Gamma heads are compatible for flat base mounting.

 

 

Stellarfire 



#57 range88

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 10:29 AM

 

 

Anybody out there who owns the Cartoni Gamma fluid head? Spec max. payload 37 lbs., weight 7.7 lbs. The Cartoni Gamma description mentions: "for additional tilt matching the –90° angle, an ultra light sliding plate is available (view Gamma 90°)". So the Gamma could be used +/-90°.

 

Not sure but seems that the Gamma is a quality step over the Focus series, it has a body of magnesium alloy, instead a plastic body as the Focus series. The Gamma would be slightly "oversized" for the APM 120, but this should result in a stability benefit.

 

Cartoni sells also a 3/8" Adapter for the Gamma fluid head. Regarding the Adapter, no further details are given on Cartoni webpage.

 

Would be interested in any experiences with the Gamma. And in particular if the head can be safely mounted onto a flat tripod base, using a 3/8" bolt (without the standard 100mm bowl).

 

 

Stellarfire

Focus series all have magnesium body, only the knobs and levers are plastic.

BTW, the new Focus series employs some kind of innovative laboratory plastic which according to them is even better than metal.

 

 

Thanks for the Cartoni Focus series magnesium body info.

 

Checking the net, looks as some Focus users are complaining about repeatedly broken plastic knobs. Apart of this issue, they look fine, apparently offering good value for the money.

 

Still unclear is if Focus 18 & 22 or Gamma heads are compatible for flat base mounting.

 

 

Stellarfire 

 

Cartoni has a 5 year warranty, in case of a breaking knob just get a replacement. But regarding binocular operation, these parts are nonetheless seldom used, I don't think you have any chance to break one according to my Focus HD experience.

And what do you mean by flat base mounting?

18 & 22 are both Euro-style touch and go style mounting. At first I harbor doubts as to whether it is as good as traditional long plate side load mounting, now I find this style quite satisfying.


Edited by range88, 22 September 2016 - 10:36 AM.


#58 Rich V.

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 10:41 AM

I think the question was about the 100mm bowl type mounting bases for the head; can the bowl be removed or modified to fit a photo tripod equipped with a column w/ flat base and stud rather than a bowl type video tripod?  That would be my question, anyhow...

 

Rich


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#59 Stellarfire

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 10:47 AM

I think the question was about the 100mm bowl type mounting bases for the head; can the bowl be removed or modified to fit a photo tripod equipped with a column w/ flat base and stud rather than a bowl type video tripod?  That would be my question, anyhow...

 

Rich

 

Yes, it was exactly meant that way. Possibility to remove (or adapt) the 100mm bowl base and mount the head onto any (geared) center column with 3/8" stud.

 

Stellarfire


Edited by Stellarfire, 22 September 2016 - 10:48 AM.


#60 range88

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 11:12 AM

 

I think the question was about the 100mm bowl type mounting bases for the head; can the bowl be removed or modified to fit a photo tripod equipped with a column w/ flat base and stud rather than a bowl type video tripod?  That would be my question, anyhow...

 

Rich

 

Yes, it was exactly meant that way. Possibility to remove (or adapt) the 100mm bowl base and mount the head onto any (geared) center column with 3/8" stud.

 

Stellarfire

 

This is the bowl side of my Focus 22. As you can see, it has a very small protruding center part, and two larger, sloped outer rims.

The chance of modification is low in my view. Focus18 and Gamma's situations however are not clear. 

If anyone knows the way, please do let me know. I'm more than happy to throw away the Manfrotto 325N.

 

IMG_4179.JPG


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#61 Rich V.

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 11:21 AM

This "Adapter 3/8" appears to fit onto the three Allen screws at the bottom of the bowl.

 

https://www.cartoni....112-adapter-38/

 

The protruding mounting rod would need to be removed to make room for the adapter, of course.

 

I have no way of telling if the bowl itself could be removed, though, for keeping a lower profile.  No harm done leaving the bowl, I suppose.

 

Rich


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#62 Stellarfire

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 12:40 PM

Interesting 100mm bowl detail picture by range88. Yes, the hole pattern of Cartoni's 3/8" Adapter looks corresponding to the Focus 22. The question is, if the protruding 3/8" bolt may be unscrewed, so a bolt can be used from below.

 

Seems Cartoni is too busy, my e-mail to them remained unanswered.

 

 

Stellarfire



#63 range88

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 06:44 PM

This "Adapter 3/8" appears to fit onto the three Allen screws at the bottom of the bowl.

https://www.cartoni....112-adapter-38/

The protruding mounting rod would need to be removed to make room for the adapter, of course.

I have no way of telling if the bowl itself could be removed, though, for keeping a lower profile. No harm done leaving the bowl, I suppose.

Rich

After removing the rod itself, there is still a metal seat protruding. This time it seems you have to cut it flat.
The adapter looks promising though.

Edited by range88, 22 September 2016 - 06:47 PM.


#64 Stellarfire

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 10:40 AM

Focus series all have magnesium body, only the knobs and levers are plastic.
BTW, the new Focus series employs some kind of innovative laboratory plastic which according to them is even better than metal.

 

Again Cartoni Focus 22 - and a question which was not touched so far.

 

Some binoculars like the APM 100 ED or APM 120 SD can be pushed to impressing levels. A reviewer (Mike Harvey) confirmed here on CN that the new APM 120 ED APO binocular can be used up to 220x, and still goes strong. At such mag levels, the vibration damping of a fluid head becomes absolutely essential.

 

Thinking of the long and heavy APM 120 binocular and high magnifications up ~200x, what is your experience/opinion, does the Focus 22 offer enough vibration damping and rigidity to handle the high mag job?

 

 

Stellarfire



#65 range88

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 06:20 PM


Focus series all have magnesium body, only the knobs and levers are plastic.
BTW, the new Focus series employs some kind of innovative laboratory plastic which according to them is even better than metal.


Again Cartoni Focus 22 - and a question which was not touched so far.

Some binoculars like the APM 100 ED or APM 120 SD can be pushed to impressing levels. A reviewer (Mike Harvey) confirmed here on CN that the new APM 120 ED APO binocular can be used up to 220x, and still goes strong. At such mag levels, the vibration damping of a fluid head becomes absolutely essential.

Thinking of the long and heavy APM 120 binocular and high magnifications up ~200x, what is your experience/opinion, does the Focus 22 offer enough vibration damping and rigidity to handle the high mag job?


Stellarfire

I use up to 200x and my answerw is yes as far as you don't touch anything. Impressive view on the bright planets.

#66 Stellarfire

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:23 AM

 

 

Focus series all have magnesium body, only the knobs and levers are plastic.
BTW, the new Focus series employs some kind of innovative laboratory plastic which according to them is even better than metal.


Again Cartoni Focus 22 - and a question which was not touched so far.

Some binoculars like the APM 100 ED or APM 120 SD can be pushed to impressing levels. A reviewer (Mike Harvey) confirmed here on CN that the new APM 120 ED APO binocular can be used up to 220x, and still goes strong. At such mag levels, the vibration damping of a fluid head becomes absolutely essential.

Thinking of the long and heavy APM 120 binocular and high magnifications up ~200x, what is your experience/opinion, does the Focus 22 offer enough vibration damping and rigidity to handle the high mag job?


Stellarfire

I use up to 200x and my answerw is yes as far as you don't touch anything. Impressive view on the bright planets.

 

 

Face/nose to e.p. contact is hardly avoidable. If touched at 200x, how long jitters the image?

 

For comparison - reviewer Mad Matt stated in his CN "Mini Review: Binoptic II fork mount" in post #23: "At 183x simply my nose touching the eyepiece makes the image jitter for about 0.5 seconds". (This is with the APM 100 ED.)

 

Stellarfire



#67 Mad Matt

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 07:09 AM

 

 

 

Focus series all have magnesium body, only the knobs and levers are plastic.
BTW, the new Focus series employs some kind of innovative laboratory plastic which according to them is even better than metal.


Again Cartoni Focus 22 - and a question which was not touched so far.

Some binoculars like the APM 100 ED or APM 120 SD can be pushed to impressing levels. A reviewer (Mike Harvey) confirmed here on CN that the new APM 120 ED APO binocular can be used up to 220x, and still goes strong. At such mag levels, the vibration damping of a fluid head becomes absolutely essential.

Thinking of the long and heavy APM 120 binocular and high magnifications up ~200x, what is your experience/opinion, does the Focus 22 offer enough vibration damping and rigidity to handle the high mag job?


Stellarfire

I use up to 200x and my answerw is yes as far as you don't touch anything. Impressive view on the bright planets.

 

 

Face/nose to e.p. contact is hardly avoidable. If touched at 200x, how long jitters the image?

 

For comparison - reviewer Mad Matt stated in his CN "Mini Review: Binoptic II fork mount" in post #23: "At 183x simply my nose touching the eyepiece makes the image jitter for about 0.5 seconds". (This is with the APM 100 ED.)

 

Stellarfire

 

An additional factor will be the tripod. Since the video head when tilted up will shift the CoB off the central axis of the tripod, I imagine that makes the tripod to become the weakest link. That is the case with my APM 100 ED's. The fork itself is rock solid but I have been able to determine that the jitter I mentioned there is actually from the the tripod (more specifically the geared column). The laws of physics must be abided too :)



#68 Stellarfire

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 08:32 AM

Thanks, Mad Matt, for jumping in. You used for the review the Berlebach UNI 19, along with their 40mm diameter geared center column. A good tripod but still not the last word when doing serious work up to 200x.

I agree with you, the column is the weakest link. The slim UNI-column is simply toy-class, in particular when fully extended and doing high mag jobs.

I think the Berlebach PLANET, along with a rigid large diameter center column (at least 70mm dia.) would be a better and more professional choice. I contacted Berlebach. Unfortunately, at this time Berlebach doesn't offer such a geared center column for the PLANET. Neither as standard item, nor as Berlebach custom order   :( 
I think it's time for Berlebach to design a new, more beefy PLANET-compatible geared center column...

Stellarfire


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#69 range88

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:00 AM

 

 

 

Focus series all have magnesium body, only the knobs and levers are plastic.
BTW, the new Focus series employs some kind of innovative laboratory plastic which according to them is even better than metal.


Again Cartoni Focus 22 - and a question which was not touched so far.

Some binoculars like the APM 100 ED or APM 120 SD can be pushed to impressing levels. A reviewer (Mike Harvey) confirmed here on CN that the new APM 120 ED APO binocular can be used up to 220x, and still goes strong. At such mag levels, the vibration damping of a fluid head becomes absolutely essential.

Thinking of the long and heavy APM 120 binocular and high magnifications up ~200x, what is your experience/opinion, does the Focus 22 offer enough vibration damping and rigidity to handle the high mag job?


Stellarfire

I use up to 200x and my answerw is yes as far as you don't touch anything. Impressive view on the bright planets.

 

 

Face/nose to e.p. contact is hardly avoidable. If touched at 200x, how long jitters the image?

 

For comparison - reviewer Mad Matt stated in his CN "Mini Review: Binoptic II fork mount" in post #23: "At 183x simply my nose touching the eyepiece makes the image jitter for about 0.5 seconds". (This is with the APM 100 ED.)

 

Stellarfire

 

I'm afraid it is the tripod which matters most.

My Gitzo 5542 will probably jitter for more than 1 second, so I avoid touching anything if possible.

For maximum steadiness, a larger geared column is needed, i.e., the Ronford Baker Bazooka.


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#70 Mad Matt

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:02 AM

 The slim UNI-column is simply toy-class, in particular when fully extended and doing high mag jobs.

I dont know if I would go as far as saying the the UNI column is toy class. The Column on my old model Manfrotto 029... THAT is toy class. ;)  Compared to that, the Berlebach is rock solid. It works fine at 180x when I use common sense and keep it low.  :grin:



#71 Mad Matt

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:08 AM

For maximum steadiness, a larger geared column is needed, i.e., the Ronford Baker Bazooka.

 WOW! now THAT is a serious column. I imagine it falls under the category of "if you have to ask now much it is... its too expensive" :p  

 

EDIT: Found a dealer in the Netherlands with prices... €4800 for the column alone... and another €5k for the base and legs... Wow what a bargen  :grin:  :p  :shocked:


Edited by Mad Matt, 06 October 2016 - 10:18 AM.

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#72 Stellarfire

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:44 AM

For those interested in the Cartoni 3/8" Adapter #A112. I just got a tech info from Cartoni Rome (Italy). Antonio De Carlo, Export sales manager, writes:

 

"Yes indeed, via the A112 you can fix the Focus 22 onto any 3/8” pin attachment. Obviously you have first to remove the threaded shaft from the bottom of Focus 22."

 

Hope this is helpful to all who want to go Cartoni.

 

Stellarfire



#73 Stellarfire

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 12:46 PM

 

 The slim UNI-column is simply toy-class, in particular when fully extended and doing high mag jobs.

I dont know if I would go as far as saying the the UNI column is toy class. The Column on my old model Manfrotto 029... THAT is toy class. ;)  Compared to that, the Berlebach is rock solid. It works fine at 180x when I use common sense and keep it low:grin:

 

 

Well, keeping it low is not always practicable. And seriously, why should one buy a geared center column which is not able to deliver a stable support not only in low-ride, but high-ride mode, too?

 

If I am informed correctly, Binoptic's Spacelifter II is using a geared center column with a diameter of not less than 70mm. I think Mr. Schumann knows why…  :smile: Only "problem" is that it is available in motorized version only, no manual drive...

 

The APM 120 is a long and heavy beast. Nothing wrong with Berlebach – great products, great customer service, great prices. But looking at this picture, there remain few doubts about the weakest link. Time is overdue for a XL-version of their column.

 

Stellarfire



#74 Stellarfire

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 09:19 AM

In direct comparison fluid head / fork mount, the stability situation remains unclear. Comparing two similar heavy mounts (for example Cartoni Focus 22 and Binoptic II fork), both bearing a large and long ~10kg-payload, which one will dampen vibrations faster/better?

 

Stellarfire



#75 Mad Matt

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 11:12 AM

In direct comparison fluid head / fork mount, the stability situation remains unclear. Comparing two similar heavy mounts (for example Cartoni Focus 22 and Binoptic II fork), both bearing a large and long ~10kg-payload, which one will dampen vibrations faster/better?

 

Stellarfire

 

I would say it would be equal. The small high frequency vibrations will come from the tripod. Based upon my experiments with viscous dampers, the fluid cartridge in the video head actual has no damping effect at high frequencies and low amplitudes.


Edited by Mad Matt, 07 October 2016 - 11:13 AM.

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