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44mm Quick Change adaptor for Telementor

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#51 Corcaroli78

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 07:16 AM

Just had a chat with Skymeca: the price I got is for anodized aluminum. Stainless steel could easily be double the price or more with epoxy paint on it... is it OK for you all in anodized aluminum? Tell me quickly ! 

PM sent!

 

Anodized aluminum is fine.

 

Carlos


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#52 Death or Stars

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 08:23 AM

Dear Sylvain (and those interested)

 

I have already indicated that I will support you by accepting one of your aluminium anodised M44 Q.C.Adapters. This arrangement will only change if you can provide a S.S. version from your same supplier.

 

Please note, I have not physically seen an original Carl Zeiss Jena Adapter, the one you possess  (with the reddish coloured acetal type cover disc within the thumbscrew) belongs to the latter generation of Telementor/Telemator instruments. I have also never seen the Zeiss engineering specification for the same. Even 30 plus years ago such technical information would have ben very hard to extract from either Zeiss (East or West).

The point I'am making is that we can never truly copy something from the past, we can however maintain the principle of always trying to  improve upon something in the light of experience and modern production techniques, this was surely the way  which led to the international reputation of Zeiss.

 

 So far, you have not indicated  what your original adapter is made of. People can only guess other issues from your photographs on this forum.

 

As a humble civil engineer , with over 40 years using Zeiss equipment, and an equal length of time with astronomy as an interest, I would stipulate the following before accepting a S.S. adapter.

 

1.  Grade 316L  stainless-steel   ( or 316  if pushed) , 304 or anything is not acceptable.  316L, briefly, has very high anti-corrosive properties.

 

2.  No anodised or any other coatings to be applied to the adapter. Surface finish should be smooth, finely tooled and very smooth to the touch, Please note, a mirror finish is not required, but the unit should look smart and free from tooling blemishes.

 

3.  The interface where the adapter plates meet should be flush and light-tight and threads either side should be undercut to ensure an interference style fit where they meet the scope and whatever fitting on the other side.

    

If the S.S, adapter is made in accordance with the above it will last a lifetime.  

 

 And I will pay the appropriate price  ( within reason) to the maker, subject to his/her firm confirming  the above. 

 

It won't be Zeiss but it will follow in the tradition.

 

Regards,

Ian Lamont.


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#53 Disciplus55

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 09:13 AM

Wow, this is a requirement O_o ... let me check that out with Skymeca...

#54 Mike E.

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 07:21 AM

Hi Sylvain,

 

Were you able to get an update from Skymeca ?


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#55 Disciplus55

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 03:05 AM

Hi there, no update, but I sent a reminder last night...


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#56 Disciplus55

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 02:49 AM

Hi there, an update : pieces made of aluminium are machined and ready to go to anodization ! Good.

 

For the stainless steel version, Skymeca warned me that there is no "good", "cheap" or proper way to get them painted even with epoxy paint. So, he can only machine them, unpainted, and warned me about potential reflections on the shiny stainless steel surface. Which makes sense. Yet, when checking my original part, the threaded part is also not painted and "shiny", I never saw any reflection.

 

I will let you know once the pieces are here :-)


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#57 Death or Stars

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 03:00 PM

Response to last update by Sylvain,

 

It is greatly appreciated that Sylvain is doing his best to achieve the desired aim - a near replica of a Carl Zeiss Jena Q.C.Adapter.  We all await with intense curiosity to see and handle the final product.

 

I for one have previously and continue to express a desire to obtain through Sylvain a S.S. version.  To this extent all my previous comments still apply.

 

My going ahead with a S.S.with Skymeca, through Sylvain, will entirely depend on how well the aluminium adapter performs in terms of function and build quality.

 

For the benefit of all I restate the following by way of clarification.

 

1  There are no coatings to be applied - full stop.

2  With the exception of all internal threads within the 2 part adapter, all exposed surfaces, parallel and at 90 degrees to the 'line of optical collimation of the scope.eyepiece, should be machine  tooled with "scroll finish".  This technique will greatly reduce reflections caused by excessive astronomical light.

 

New to my mutterings -  Of far greater concern to me on this project (aluminium or S.S.) is the time and effort needed to replicate the somewhat over-engineered thumbscrew  facility. It is quite cleverly done by Zeiss Jena, and to reproduce it today, in the UK, we would be looking at laser-scan, reverse engineering and production for a one off adapter in the order of £900.+  Let's us see what Skymeca produce!

Having considered all the above , my thoughts return to the Quick Change Adapter produced by Ihagee Dresden with their Microscope Adapter - all produced for the Exakta camera system. Given the chance, I would certainly incorporate their design of locking arrangement - straight forward, practical and easy to produce.

 

All for now.

 

Ian Lamont.



#58 Mike E.

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 04:51 PM

........................………...………...……...My going ahead with a S.S.with Skymeca, through Sylvain, will entirely depend on how well the aluminium adapter performs in terms of function and build quality. …………………………………..

I am comfortable to go for the Stainless Steel version even though the cost is significantly higher.

 

Edit:  I have no concerns about waiting for feedback from others; so I'll take the initiative and be the first up to bat.


Edited by Mike E., 14 February 2020 - 04:59 PM.


#59 Death or Stars

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 06:23 AM

Question :  How many Q.C.A's does one observer need?

 

One complete two part unit is the basic minimum.

Let's assume the thumb-screw bit remains more or less permanently attached to the scope. The conical ring bit attaches to the equipment we intend to use on the scope. Surely we should be attaching  conical ring bits to all our various pieces of observing equipment, otherwise what's the point of Q.C.A. system. I suppose with just one Q.C.A. we can at least go through the screw/unsrcew  process in more light and comfort away from the principal scope.

 

Just a thought in terms of cost.

 

Ian Lamont.



#60 Mike E.

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 08:54 AM

As my Wife and I have both Telementor-1 & Telementor-2 model scopes, the only need we presently have for a quick change adapter is to allow for rotation of the Zeiss diagonal on our T-1 model for a comfortable viewing angle, which can only be done by constantly threading and unthreading the diagonal to position it; not good for either the diagonal or the helical focuser.

 

On the Telementor-2 we have a Zeiss turret, which has the rotational provision provided.

( thumb screw at bottom left of photo.)

 

Edit: Just an afterthought. For those who might be looking for a turret for their Telementor-1 model's, I would not recommend it, as the weight of the Turret "in my opinion" is too  much for the helical focuser to handle without causing undo strain on the mechanism. Not a problem for the Telementor-2 as it attaches firmly to the optical tube assembly without flexing.

.

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Edited by Mike E., 15 February 2020 - 09:14 AM.

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#61 Astrojensen

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 10:10 AM

 

Edit: Just an afterthought. For those who might be looking for a turret for their Telementor-1 model's, I would not recommend it, as the weight of the Turret "in my opinion" is too  much for the helical focuser to handle without causing undo strain on the mechanism. Not a problem for the Telementor-2 as it attaches firmly to the optical tube assembly without flexing.

.

??? I used a turret on my Telementor 1 without the slightest issues for several years. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


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#62 Mike E.

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:06 PM

Hi Thomas,

 

I find that with the turret there is an uncomfortable amount of induced drag with our helical focuser compared to the flawless smooth operation with a diagonal or strait through viewing.

 

Clear skies.



#63 Astrojensen

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:16 PM

Hi Thomas,

 

I find that with the turret there is an uncomfortable amount of induced drag with our helical focuser compared to the flawless smooth operation with a diagonal or strait through viewing.

 

Clear skies.

That strikes me as odd. There wasn't a noticeable difference between using my turret or just a lightweight diagonal on my Telementor 1. The Zeiss turret is pretty lightweight itself, compared to many modern diagonals, and the 40mm huygenian and three 24.5mm orthos I used on it also doesn't weigh much. 

 

I did take the helical focuser apart and cleaned it and regreased it with modern, acid-free teflon grease, perhaps that explains the difference. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark



#64 Mike E.

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:38 PM

 

 

……………………… I did take the helical focuser apart and cleaned it and regreased it with modern, acid-free teflon grease, perhaps that explains the difference. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

Food for thought, as I have not felt there was a need to regrease the focuser since I acquired the scope a few years ago.



#65 Death or Stars

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 02:49 PM

Hello All,

 

Mike , your absolutely right about the convenience of possessing 360 rotational ability for the various add-ons attaching to the main scope. Of course the Q.C.A. (made by Carl Zeiss Jena and other pretenders to the crown) achieves this function perfectly.

 

With my 'Telementor ll ' I noticed that screwing  the Zeiss 90 Deg. diagonal directly into the scope, always resulted in the former  ending up at the same angle in relation to the scope.  The issue  this position  of the diagonal created was to prevent  use of the mechanical viewfinder on the scope. The M44 thread has a 1 mm pitch, bearing this in mind, I worked out I needed to insert a shim between the scope and the diagonal of 0.8 mm thickness in order to achieve the required position of the diagonal. My machinist firm made me 3 stainless steel shims for the price of one (total cost £15). they provided the 0.8 mm as required and additionally, 0.7 and 0.9. I am pleased to say the 0.8 shim works perfectly in fixing the diagonal to a position that allows use of the viewfinder.

 

Well, I'am new to this game, but I eventually realised a Q.C.A. could have solved the issue in one stroke, you live and learn!

 

On something completely different.  We live in a world increasingly reliant on specification and performance documentation to ensure whatever is produced meets the requirements of the client. In the civil/mechanical engineering field, gone are the days when a persons word was taken as gospel. I  adopt the policy of initially  trusting but verify in documentation before committing to spending hard earned money. I also believe that trust is very hard won over a period of time but lost in a split second. We all belong to this fraternity of mutual academic endeavour (the study of astronomy) , this provides our membership with a good starter for ten in terms of developing mutual trust. I've only been a member of the C.N. circle for a couple of months, so try and be a little understanding in my stance of looking before leaping.

 

On a purely subjective note , I entirely agree with your comments on the turret. Operating single eyepiece to scope  seems to me a more refined approach compared to swinging around a large fully occupied turret because it just happens to be there. Zeiss is good but undue wear and tear must take place as a result of turret operation. Simply put, the turret is not engineered to sustain constant use on small telescopes, but it does look good in the lounge as a conversation piece - everyone to their choice.   

 

Kindest regards,

 

Ian Lamont    



#66 Astrojensen

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 03:23 PM

 

Simply put, the turret is not engineered to sustain constant use on small telescopes

What nonsense is this? I used my amici turret almost every session for several years and it's still as good as new. And the older, five-eyepiece turret is even more solid, built like a tank. I know at least one person, who has used his Zeiss turret almost every clear night since 1968 or thereabouts, when he bought his Zeiss Meniscas. 

 

I only stopped using my turret, when I shifted to modern 1.25" and 2" eyepieces. The amici turret was a godsend for deep-sky observing and I had lots of extremely productive nights with it.  

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


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#67 Death or Stars

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 03:51 PM

Everyone is entitled to their views based on experience . My experience and observation tells me the turret cap with  grey plastic 0.965" nosepieces is poorly made , which by the way, appears to be the only second-hand model available today on the open market, certainly not worth the money been asked for a piece of cracked plastic.  Poorly engineered- end of story.

 

Ian Lamont.



#68 Mike E.

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 04:49 PM

I  find our Zeiss turret to be of fine quality, however over the last forty or so years the plastic eyepiece holders have become brittle which realistically could be expected, however, and I may be wrong, I would think the reasoning for using plastic is that the Telementor was designed as a school scope, and we all know that kids can be heavy handed when learning to operate instruments; so it would seem logical that this may have been the equivalent of a control weak point, and a simple fix to limit damage to the entire turret.

 

I was able to acquire a machined set of replacement holders for my 24.5mm Zeiss eyepieces. They have been a worthy asset for for the Zeiss turret, and a joy to use knowing that the eyepieces are properly secured in place.

.

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#69 Death or Stars

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 05:39 PM

I can't prove the veracity or otherwise of what you say with respect to Carl Zeiss Jena design logic, but I entirely agree with your comments.

Your last image above is something I've not seen before. It looks professional, workmanlike and long -lasting, yes I'am a just a wee bit jealous and would certainly love to operate the same with my C63/840.

 

You have many years of experience behind you, I, on the other-hand, have but a few months behind me in trying to keep the faith with a recently acquired Telementor. I thus call it as I see it, hence the vast difference in perceptions we have.

 

 I have used both  Carl Zeiss(Oberkochen) and Carl |Zeiss (Jena) optical/mechanical surveying instruments for over 43 years and I'am pleased to say I have never had any issue with any equipment in terms of durability operation or maintenance. It could be just me but I feel Jena, whilst addressing the school population, maybe didn't quite expect the intense following their junior scopes would attract with the passage of time.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Ian Lamont.



#70 Mike E.

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 06:14 PM

This thread seems to be veering off topic, so I'll just finish by saying that I purchased the machined eyepiece holders from an add here in the CN Classifides; search "Zeiss".  They were in limited supply, but it's possible they may again be available in the future; if so, I will be looking for at least one holder sized for 1.25" eyepieces.  



#71 Disciplus55

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 02:02 PM

Hi All,

On my AS80, there was, including the scope, a quick changer from Zeiss M44 to M44 via a dovetail ring quick connector... love it, it makes a lot of sense with the diagonal from Zeiss.

BUT, I wanted to have the same one for my Telemator, to use my Zeiss diagonal on it too... and indeed, it's close to impossible to find one.

 

Having said that, there is a machinist in France, about 1h away from home, a small family business called SkyMeca. The owner is specialised in making all kinds of rings and adapter for astro gear purpose, he is very well known on our French astro forums. I did send him a request of feasibility for a duplicate of my Zeiss system, M44x1, dovetail ring. He thinks it's possible, so most likely I will lend him my Zeiss unit and see what he can machine, and hopefully at a good price.

 

Here is what it looks like, the original. Hopefully SkyMeca can make me another one, I will sure let you know here.

Just got some photos from Skymeca, the aluminum versions are ready, he could get the anodization together with an earlier order.

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#72 Death or Stars

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 02:55 PM

Hello Sylvain,

 

The anodized aluminium version looks the business, well done, look forward to receiving one.

 

Your news and photographs from SkyMeca concerning the S.S. hybrid version came as a complete welcome surprise, I approve 100%.

Further details on the same ,as discussed with you personally tonight.

 

I'am sure everybody will now look forward to you releasing full details in the next few days.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Ian Lamont.



#73 Mike E.

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 06:12 AM

I have requested the alternative Hybrid option.  



#74 Disciplus55

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:49 AM

Hi All,

 

so, there are 9 quick coupling sets made of aluminum and one for me, plus 2 hybrid ones where the male part is made of stainless steel, I have notified everybody, the rings should arrive at home end of this week, and I just picked up some papers for the shipments, packaging material and all, I am ready to dispatch. I will test them ALL before shipping, on my AS80/840, to check if the thread is working fine and if the coupling works fine.

Skymeca made some extra ones, if needed, there are 5-6 more produced already, that I can get. So, don't hesitate to PM me if you want one. I hope it will all suit our expectations, but again, Skymeca did some great things for me already (mount adapting plates for my Zeiss TM mounts on standard tripods), so I am not worried.


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#75 Corcaroli78

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 02:40 AM

Hi All,

 

so, there are 9 quick coupling sets made of aluminum and one for me, plus 2 hybrid ones where the male part is made of stainless steel, I have notified everybody, the rings should arrive at home end of this week, and I just picked up some papers for the shipments, packaging material and all, I am ready to dispatch. I will test them ALL before shipping, on my AS80/840, to check if the thread is working fine and if the coupling works fine.

Skymeca made some extra ones, if needed, there are 5-6 more produced already, that I can get. So, don't hesitate to PM me if you want one. I hope it will all suit our expectations, but again, Skymeca did some great things for me already (mount adapting plates for my Zeiss TM mounts on standard tripods), so I am not worried.

Hi Sylvain, 

 

I have sent PM with all required info. Many thanks for supporting the Zeiss Telementor community, I personally appreciate to take this task on your own without other interest that help others .  Looking forward to get my Quick change adaptor!

 

Best regards from Denmark

Carlos




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