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44mm Quick Change adaptor for Telementor

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#101 Disciplus55

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Posted 28 February 2020 - 04:18 AM

Thanks for the kind comments smile.gif


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#102 Astrojensen

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Posted 29 February 2020 - 04:18 AM

I received mine yesterday and have tested one of them (I ordered two aluminum versions) on my Telemator. Works well. It definitely feels a lot more beefy than the Baader T2 version and you don't have to tighten it much at all, to have it hold the accessories in a rock solid grip. The only negative I have to say about it, is that it's easy to accidentally turn the knob too far out when loosening it, and unscrew it completely. I wish it would have been possible to copy the captive knob on the original Zeiss version, but I know it's quite complicated. 

 

Now I just need to find a M44 prism... Easier said than done, though.  

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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#103 Mike E.

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Posted 29 February 2020 - 05:21 AM

………………………….. The only negative I have to say about it, is that it's easy to accidentally turn the knob too far out when loosening it, and unscrew it completely. I wish it would have been possible to copy the captive knob on the original Zeiss version, but I know it's quite complicated. …………………….  

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

 

To give more purchase for the screw, an easier solution would be to increase the diameter of the ring by 7.5 mm to match the diameter of the focuser ring on the Telementor-1 model, which would also work for the T-2 model.


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#104 Disciplus55

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Posted 29 February 2020 - 08:29 AM

Maybe try a small rubber « O » ring on the thread of the screw ? The original sliding mechanism is indeed hard to reproduce... Ian had the same comment.



#105 Death or Stars

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Posted 01 March 2020 - 07:43 AM

Hello All,

 

You all have my sympathy for various individual reasons, but must confess I knew about the capture problem within less than 30 seconds of opening the much awaited package. Mmm, I thought, why did I drop this brass knob on the kitchen floor three times in quick succession, am I being stupid or something, I certainly had not been drinking any wine in the last few days. I rang Sylvain fairly promptly to discuss the issue, we did, hence reference above to yours truly. Being a nit-picking sort of fellow, and suffering from perfectionist syndrome, I told Sylvain I would not enter into any e-mail debate as it may be just me expecting too much from what is a very good priced adapter. It does what it says on the box, it's a Q.C.A. with rotational facility. It does not possess the engineered thumb-screw of the Zeiss original (perfection overboard - but much admired). To reproduce the same style of 'Captured' mechanism today would place the price tag close to a 1000 Euro/unit, I know, I've done this exercise in the UK, the bulk of that cost is in the thumb-screw.

 

But we must manage with what we have, slight warts and all. 

 

Current Situation:

 

The minimum protruding position of the T.S.(thumbscrew) on the inner wall, when it will release the conical adapter is approximately 0.5mm. This means there is nothing can be done to caputure the T.S. from inside the adapter.

From the T.S. position mentioned above, it takes only 1and a 1/4 further turns of the T.S. for it to fall out- not good.

 

(a similar arrangement can be found in the Ihagee Exakta Microscope Adapter. It provides for 4 and 1/2 further turns before falling out.) it works fine.

 

I agree with Mike's comment about increasing the wall thickness, this design solution would retain the existing inner wall diameter and increase the outer wall diameter, thereby allowing, on adapter release, at least 4 full  (360 deg.) turns of the T.S. before falling out occurs. I would be willing to pay SkyMeca (usual channels) for this replacement half of the unit,S.S. and anodised.

 

 A  possible cheaper alternative : Think ergonomics.

 

When this existing brass knob falls out ,it does so quickly and with a bang on the floor. It's too big and heavy for nimble fingers to control and prevent falling out. Solution, make the knob much smaller in size, and increase the length  of visible thread shaft by about 5 mm. The operator should then be able to control entry/exit of the T.S. with ease between two fingers, not three as currently required. The opportunity here should be taken to make the hybrid knob in S.S. much better than brass. The Exakta adapter above operates on the same principle with no falling out issues.

 

Kind regards to all,

 

Ian Lamont.



#106 Astrojensen

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Posted 01 March 2020 - 11:46 AM

 

To reproduce the same style of 'Captured' mechanism today would place the price tag close to a 1000 Euro/unit, I know, I've done this exercise in the UK, the bulk of that cost is in the thumb-screw.

Baader uses the Zeiss-style captured screw mechanism on their M68 and T2 (the heavy-duty version) quick-change adapters. These doesn't cost 1k euro a piece, but I'm sure the price would be high if they are only made by hand in a small number. 

 

BTW, has anyone taken one apart, to see if they really are that complicated to replicate?

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark



#107 Death or Stars

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Posted 01 March 2020 - 12:26 PM

 Hello Thomas,

 

No, I personally have not taken one apart.

However, Sylvain very kindly lent me his original for a couple of weeks for close examination.

For my own record, I have photographed every visible aspect of the original in great detail.

 

I have visited 4 precision engineering workshops in the north of England all have confirmed '' making the unit is the easy part, the thumb-screw mechanism, well that's somewhat tricky to say the least''. Two firms wanted to borrow the original and strip it down to examine in detail - I said no for obvious reasons. One firm suggested x-raying the original to discover its mechanism - no to that one.

 

Non-destructive reverse engineering appears not possible, It would take an extremely experienced 'tool man' to reveal and explain to another how the original works,

 

Listening to all these experts in the trade, I get the impression there are to many production steps involved in reproducing the Zeiss original T.S. Yes, anything can be done, but not at the cost I'am willing to pay.

 

As I write this note , my search next week may lead me to a small machine shop capable of doing the impossible, without the use of CNC equipment, just using experience and skill, you never know!

 

I have not physically handled the Baader version (standard or heavy duty) but talking to a fellow (Lee Sproats) who works for D.Hinds Ltd (UK importer of Baader products), has assured me the Heavy Duty version is the one that Telementor owners should use, about £95 for the unit. But not quite Zeiss.  

 

  

 

Kind regards,

 

Ian L. 



#108 Mike E.

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Posted 01 March 2020 - 03:30 PM

I have no issue with the adapter I received.  smile.png

 

Should a problem ever arise with the setscrew (?), I would most likely machine a stainless steel ring larger than the female half of the QC adapter, drill and tap it, and then attach it over the adapter with a differential fit.


Edited by Mike E., 01 March 2020 - 03:35 PM.


#109 Disciplus55

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:50 AM

I can check with SkyMeca how much that would be to re-machine some rings with a larger outer diameter of the female part of the ring, in aluminium then, anodized. The outer diameter is as such because it is exactly the diameter of the draw-tube of my AS80, it is like a continuation of the draw-tube on the focuser side. I will check with Skymeca.



#110 Death or Stars

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 03:20 AM

Seems initially like a good  plan to me Sylvain.

As long as the increased outer wall diameter allows at least 4 full turns of the T.S. beyond that point in which the T.S. releases the conical adapter ring.  The T.S. should not accidentally fall out then.

 

Cheers,

Ian L.    



#111 Mike E.

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 11:28 AM

The issue regarding enough thread purchase could be resolved rather simply, see rough sketch. 

 

The support part of the adapter is comprised of a lip and a thumb screw. I would be confident that after the female part of the adapter was turned in a lathe, the lip was machined on a rotary indexing table; if so, it would be a simple matter to remove excess material from the perimeter while the part is still set up on the rotary table, leaving a raised portion which would provide for additional thread support. 

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#112 Astrojensen

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 01:21 PM

The issue regarding enough thread purchase could be resolved rather simply, see rough sketch. 

 

The support part of the adapter is comprised of a lip and a thumb screw. I would be confident that after the female part of the adapter was turned in a lathe, the lip was machined on a rotary indexing table; if so, it would be a simple matter to remove excess material from the perimeter while the part is still set up on the rotary table, leaving a raised portion which would provide for additional thread support. 

.

That's how the Baader T2 quick-change adapters are made. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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#113 Death or Stars

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:49 PM

Six and two threes, both solutions would  work, I would assume both would cost about the same (and before somebody asks - that's based on direct, immediate communications with the trade in the UK. ,not guesswork!) The 'volcano' solution is somewhat lighter, on the other hand, the first suggestion is more in keeping with the style of the original Zeiss version.

I'am happy to go either way, as long as it is quite clear what's on offer technically.

 I've already asked for a one-off and unit price for the first version as a means of comparison with SkyMeca, and I will have an answer by this coming weekend. The issue of fallout is quite important to me, so I'am taking this course of action in case technically or otherwise things don't work to an agreed solution with SkyMeca.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian L.



#114 Death or Stars

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:58 PM

Just received an e-mail from the firm willing to undertake the work in the U.K.

The cost for a one-off half adapter ring, as per discussion above, is £250 +/- 20%. They did not quote for a unit cost.

 

Too dear for my blood, will have to rely on SkyMeca for any technical advancements.

 

Cheers,  Ian. 



#115 Death or Stars

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Posted 03 March 2020 - 01:03 PM

Hello All,

 

Good news to report.

 I believe my journey is over with respect to chasing the perfect M44 Q.C.A.

 

As I have reported, I knew there was something wrong within seconds of use when this heavy piece of brasswork kept falling out of the adapter on to the floor. It could be technically resolved  by two solutions mentioned above, but as I further mention, it could be a question of ergonomics. The latter thought has proved absolutely correct in my humble opinion.

After some thought on the matter, I realised the brass knob was far too heavy for purpose, and the thread length should be at least twice as long  ( from existing 5 mm to 10 mm) to aid handling and visibility. 

 

I have obtained today the following in the post ,it was only ordered yesterday, from Sheridan Marine, Oxfordshire in the UK.

 

Their stainless-steel Knurled Thumb-screw ( Ref. DF40). M5 thread, thread length - 10mm, Diameter - 12mm

all for the price of £2.99 plus postage.

 

It works an absolute treat, far better than the brass bauble , and it is just about accidently impossible to cause it to fall out.

It certainly makes the black anodised adapter look even better than it already is, the whole adapter now  looks, operates and feels a competent successor to the original.

 

Kind regards, 

Ian Lamont.


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#116 Disciplus55

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Posted 03 March 2020 - 02:01 PM

Perfect ! Case closed :-)


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#117 Corcaroli78

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Posted 03 March 2020 - 04:29 PM

Hello All,

 

Good news to report.

 I believe my journey is over with respect to chasing the perfect M44 Q.C.A.

 

As I have reported, I knew there was something wrong within seconds of use when this heavy piece of brasswork kept falling out of the adapter on to the floor. It could be technically resolved  by two solutions mentioned above, but as I further mention, it could be a question of ergonomics. The latter thought has proved absolutely correct in my humble opinion.

After some thought on the matter, I realised the brass knob was far too heavy for purpose, and the thread length should be at least twice as long  ( from existing 5 mm to 10 mm) to aid handling and visibility. 

 

I have obtained today the following in the post ,it was only ordered yesterday, from Sheridan Marine, Oxfordshire in the UK.

 

Their stainless-steel Knurled Thumb-screw ( Ref. DF40). M5 thread, thread length - 10mm, Diameter - 12mm

all for the price of £2.99 plus postage.

 

It works an absolute treat, far better than the brass bauble , and it is just about accidently impossible to cause it to fall out.

It certainly makes the black anodised adapter look even better than it already is, the whole adapter now  looks, operates and feels a competent successor to the original.

 

Kind regards, 

Ian Lamont.

Hi Ian,

 

Do you have pictures of the improved setup? 

 

br

Carlos 



#118 Death or Stars

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 05:03 AM

Photo attached shows thumbscrew in locked position


Edited by Death or Stars, 04 March 2020 - 05:09 AM.


#119 Death or Stars

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 05:35 AM

AF0CB2A1-D112-48F0-A8B4-6F5056B08905.jpeg

Photo


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#120 Mike E.

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 06:24 AM

Out of curiosity, has the tip of the threaded stainless steel thumbscrew been properly rounded to prevent damage to the male part of the aluminum adapter ? 


Edited by Mike E., 04 March 2020 - 06:27 AM.


#121 Death or Stars

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 07:23 AM

Yes.

There is a machined chamfer all the way round on the tip which surrounds a flat crown. It came as standard, not by instruction from me. 

This flat has a diameter which is marginally greater than the SkyMeca T.S.

 

Personally  I prefer this finish because there is a  reduced chance of creating marring on the angled face of the bearing surface in the event of extreme over tightening of the T.S. The narrower the point on the T.S. becomes, the greater the  risk is of marring.

In a perfect world the tip of the T.S. would not rotate as it's primary support was screwed one way or the other on a sliding mechanism .  In this case the maximum diameter of the T.S. would ideally meet the angled rotational face in a constant state of uniform pressure between both faces. One more very important advantage to the larger flat diameter is that it translates into a further 3/4's of a turn of retention in the female thread. 

 

 I believe the original Zeiss adapter incorporated such a sliding mechanism in it's T.S. (as  I have been formally advised  and observed personally). Let's not go there again, I'am more than happy  with the aluminium adapter and take comfort in using a hardened steel angled ring to ensure a lifetime of trouble- free use.

 

Cheers,

Ian.


Edited by Death or Stars, 04 March 2020 - 03:17 PM.


#122 Corcaroli78

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Posted 07 March 2020 - 11:26 AM

Hi all,

 

Part # 13 arrived and now my setup is completed.  So far, the brass thumbscrew is not an issue for me, but i already have another M5 thumbscrew that fits the system, just in case.

 

Last night was the last session using my previous setup, It was very risky when i wanted to rotate the diagonal. now all is solved and works very nice

 

20200307_171001.jpg  20200307_170947.jpg

 

 

Carlos

 

 


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#123 Mike E.

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Posted 14 March 2020 - 03:37 PM

How nice it is to have two fully functional Telementors, which both my Wife and I can enjoy together. The quick change adapter makes a world of difference to ease of observing. These two are ready and awaiting clear skies predicted for tomorrow.

 

Once again,Thanks Sylvain, for making available this long sought after viewing accessory.  smile.png

.

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#124 Corcaroli78

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Posted 14 March 2020 - 03:58 PM

How nice it is to have two fully functional Telementors, which both my Wife and I can enjoy together. The quick change adapter makes a world of difference to ease of observing. These two are ready and awaiting clear skies predicted for tomorrow.

 

Once again,Thanks Sylvain, for making available this long sought after viewing accessory.  smile.png

.

+1

 

I just came 5 min ago from a short observation with my Telementor, and what a difference, the quick change adapter makes the observation easier as i can safely adjust the position of the eyepiece. No more worries with the rotation!

 

Carlos


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#125 Mike E.

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Posted 14 March 2020 - 04:14 PM

Hi Carlos,

 

Yes, and what a difference it does make. smile.png


Edited by Mike E., 14 March 2020 - 04:15 PM.

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