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ES 100° series versus Lunt/WO/Myriad/etc. XWA

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#1 dhines32

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 07:05 AM

Hi All. I have looked at a few discussions about this, but I am looking for a few more comparisons between the two types. I have the ES 100° 9,14, and 20mm, but I only have tried the Lunt Eng. XWA 5mm (4.77mm) from that line. 

 

The ES 100° 14mm does not have a Lunt/WO/Myriad alternative, so I will leave that one out of the discussion.

 

My ES 100° 20mm corrects very well with my HRCC, but I am wondering if the Lunt XWA is even better corrected at the edge for astigmatism? The 20mm is also not parfocal with the 14 and 9. Don't get me wrong, I love the views in the 20mm, but if it's possible to get more eye relief in a lighter package that is better corrected and closer to parfocal with my other three 100° eyepieces, I'll definitely consider a switch.

 

The 20mm is the one that I'd look into replacing, but does anyone have any opinions on the ES 9mm versus the Lunt/WO/Myriad XWA 9mm also? I am not too concerned about weight with this one; mainly sharpness, transmission, and eye relief.

 

Can anyone also chime in on the ES 5.5 versus the Lunt/WO/Myriad/etc. XWA 5? Those aren't the same focal length (5.5 vs. 4.77mm), but I am curious.

 

My ES 100° 9mm is the one that got me back into 100° eyepieces. I had an ES 100° 20mm prior, but sold it because if its lack of eye relief, but I have learned to use it better this go around. When I saw a great deal on a 9mm, I couldn't pass it up. When I compared it to my former favorite eyepiece, the ES 82° 8.8mm, I was surprised by the increased perceived sharpness. I ended up selling the 8.8, and reacquiring the ES 100° 20mm.

 

People seem to like the Lunt/WO/Myriad, etc. clones, but I am not sure why they haven't caught on better.

 

I look forward to your opinions on this.

 

Thanks.

-Dan


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#2 russell23

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 07:41 AM

I have the 9mm Lunt XWA and last summer directly compared it with the 9mm ES100 for a few observing sessions.   The two are very close in performance.   I couldn't see any significant differences.    I think the real difference seems to be more in the housing.   The 9mm Lunt puts the eye lense right at the top so you have the maximum eye relief of the design.  The 9mm Lunt can be used as both a 2" and a 1.25" eyepiece because the lower part of the 2" barrel is threaded on.  So you can use the 9mm Lunt in a 1.25" barlow or star diagonal.   The 9mm Lunt is a little lighter because of the construction.

 

Personally I thought the 9mm Lunt was bit more comfortable because the eye lense is not as recessed. The main advantage the ES100 has is that it is waterproof. 

 

The 9mm Lunt is also cheaper - even now with the ES100's on sale.

 

I think the main reason they have not caught on is that they do not have a strong advertising program supporting them.   Does anyone know where you can buy them?  As far as I know they are only found here:

 

http://telescopes.ne...nufacturer=1042

 

But for those people that are curious they are every bit as good as the ES100's.  I preferred the comfort of the 9mm Lunt.

 

The one thing that seems to be uncertain is whether or not the Lunt XWA are going to be around for the long haul.   The ES100's aren't going anywhere.  Is the Lunt line one of those things where the company invests in a production run with their name branded on it and then waits to see if they sell?   If Lunt was serious about entering the 100 deg market long term with this line they would do more advertising and get them to more vendors.   Perhaps that does not fit in the company budget.    All speculation on my part but there has to be some reason why these eyepieces with a price that will attract buyers are not getting a stronger advertising effort. 

 

Edit:  BTW I also had the 9mm Williams Optics XWA.  The optics are identical in performance but the comfort is much better on the Lunt version because of the tapered top.  The WO version has that large diameter top that forces a lot of contact between the observers face and the eyepiece.  If that doesn't bother you the WO version is otherwise excellent.

 

Dave


Edited by russell23, 04 April 2016 - 07:42 AM.

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#3 dhines32

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 07:47 AM

The one thing that seems to be uncertain is whether or not the Lunt XWA are going to be around for the long haul.   The ES100's aren't going anywhere. 

 

 

Dave. That is something I didn't think about. I do sell eyepieces from time to time, and resale value does factor in. 

 

Thanks.

 

-Dan



#4 junomike

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 07:56 AM

Nice Eval Dave.  Any experience with the 20mm XWA?  A friend has one in transit and apparently it's gets better reviews than the ES 20mm 100°.

We're planning on doing a 3-way shoot-out with the 21E, 20 XWA and ES 20 100.  I'm pretty sure how theese will place, but........ya never know.


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#5 russell23

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 08:01 AM

 

The one thing that seems to be uncertain is whether or not the Lunt XWA are going to be around for the long haul.   The ES100's aren't going anywhere. 

 

 

Dave. That is something I didn't think about. I do sell eyepieces from time to time, and resale value does factor in. 

 

Thanks.

 

-Dan

 

 

It is hard to know what the value of a Lunt 100 is on the used market since there are very few out there.  I'm not sure if I have seen them for sale used so there really aren't reference points.  75% of $270 would be $209 so probably the used market price will be right around that which seems reasonable.

 

At any rate if you like the 9mm ES100 you will like the optical performance of the Lunt XWA. 

 

I had considered getting the 5mm Lunt XWA but the reasons I have not are:

 

1.  My 5.5mm Meade UWA is outstanding and so versatile I just can't see the 5mm Lunt XWA replacing it and I don't want to replace it anyway.   

2.  The magnification with my scope would be ~180x and there are very few nights when the seeing allows that much magnification so it is hard for me to justify $280 on an eyepiece that won't see a lot of use.  The 5.5mm Meade cost me $130.

3.  The 5.5mm Meade UWA is a very good planetary/lunar eyepiece in addition to deep sky.  I have found I do not like the 100 deg AFOV for lunar/planetary and with my 120mm ED refractor there are not as many deep sky objects that would be bright enough with the ~0.6mm exit pupil.  So in addition to not getting enough good nights with seeing conditions the 5mm Lunt would not be used on the main targets I would observe in that magnification range (moon and planets).

4.  Since the 9mm Lunt can be used with a 2x 1.25" barlow I can get a magnification of 200x with the 9mm Lunt if I did decide I wanted to use it that way making the 5mm Lunt unnecessary.

 

Dave 


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#6 russell23

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 08:06 AM

Nice Eval Dave.  Any experience with the 20mm XWA?  A friend has one in transit and apparently it's gets better reviews than the ES 20mm 100°.

We're planning on doing a 3-way shoot-out with the 21E, 20 XWA and ES 20 100.  I'm pretty sure how theese will place, but........ya never know.

 

No.  I've only used the 9mm Lunt.   Last summer I did have for a time in my possession the 9mm, 14mm, and 20mm ES100's along with the 9mm Lunt.   I liked the 9mm Lunt the best - mainly ergonomically and mechanically.   The optical differences were small and really splitting hairs to even feel that there was any optical performance difference between the 9mm Lunt and the 9mm ES100.   The 14mm and 20mm ES100's were good too, but I didn't give them a lot of focuser time because I needed my glasses to avoid problems with my own eye's astigmatism.  The 9mm FL is safely into the zone where my astigmatism is not an issue without glasses.

 

Dave


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#7 dhines32

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 08:29 AM

...My 5.5mm Meade UWA is outstanding and so versatile I just can't see the 5mm Lunt XWA replacing it and I don't want to replace it anyway.

I have heard some great things about the Meade UWA 5.5mm. I considered that one until a used Delos 6 popped up. I probably could have gotten the Meade 5.5 or ES 5.5 and split the difference between the Lunt 5 and Delos 6 to only buy one eyepiece, but I really wanted to try the Delos.  

 

I do really like the Lunt 5 XWA, but it is too much magnification in my Z12 at times. I got it mainly for Mars and Saturn which can take high magnification better, but it also gives great views of Jupiter when seeing allows. I will say that the 110° view is awesome with the eyecup removed. I could have barlowed my ES 100° 9mm, but with a CC, that's too much length in the focuser.

 

I will keep the Meade in mind if the Lunt 5 doesn't perform on Mars and Saturn. It might be a chance to recup some cash.

 

-Dan



#8 karstenkoch

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:02 AM

Glad to hear that the ES and Lunt 9's are close. I have the ES 9. Never looked thru the Lunt 9. I do have the Lunt 3.5. That's a long puppy there. The Lunt 3.5 makes a really nice lunar lander eyepiece in my 80mm APO.

 

There's something I really like about the ES 9 that is hard to put my finger on, but I'll try. When I look thru the ES 9, I have the feeling of looking thru a very large circular but perfectly flat window. The ES 14 and 20 sensation is closer to the feeling of looking thru a very large circular but slightly concave window. I like the 9 feeling the most.


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#9 dhines32

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:41 AM

I like your description of the ES 9, Karsten. 

 

Continuing my search, I see a lot of threads comparing the different brands of the XWA clones to each other, but not many with the ES 100° 20mm specifically. I think we can pretty much say the WO/Myriad/Lunt XWA's are the same except for the Lunt's eye cup. Also, the 9mm to 9mm comparisons between the brands seem to be the most common by far. Hopefully I can get some deep details about the XWA 20's.

 

I also noticed that some of the XWA's are claiming to be waterproof as well.


Edited by dhines32, 04 April 2016 - 10:31 AM.

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#10 Sard

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 10:56 AM

I'd love to see a detailed shootout between the Lunt, ES 100 and Ethos eyepieces.  So far all signs point to the Lunt being just about as good as the Ethos for far less money.  In fact, I think you can buy the 9mm Lunt AND 20mm Lunt for pretty close to what a used Ethos goes for.


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#11 rowdy388

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:08 PM

I'd like to see the Lunt and ES 20 compared also.  I have the Lunt 5 and three

ES 100 eyepieces.

My impressions are that the two brands are equal quality wise.  The ES 20 is probably

my most used eyepiece.


Edited by rowdy388, 04 April 2016 - 02:45 PM.

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#12 CeleNoptic

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:19 PM

 I think we can pretty much say the WO/Myriad/Lunt XWA's are the same except for the Lunt's eye cup.

 

I guess, you're right. And the ES100 too. I won't be surprised if they are all made by JOC.


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#13 George N

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 02:39 PM

.....

 

Personally I thought the 9mm Lunt was bit more comfortable because the eye lense is not as recessed. The main advantage the ES100 has is that it is waterproof. 

 

The 9mm Lunt is also cheaper - even now with the ES100's on sale.

 

I think the main reason they have not caught on is that they do not have a strong advertising program supporting them.   Does anyone know where you can buy them?  As far as I know they are only found here:

 

http://telescopes.ne...nufacturer=1042

 

But for those people that are curious they are every bit as good as the ES100's.  I preferred the comfort of the 9mm Lunt.

 

......

 

Dave

 

I got one of the Lunt 9mm last year at NEAF when they were at fabulous intro prices. Marcus has posted (somewhere?) that the Lunt 100's now have improved mechanical parts and are now waterproof.

 

It is probably too late at this point, but you could have asked him to bring what Lunt eyepieces you wanted to NEAF this year - and save the shipping. He is bringing me one of the 20mm 100's. Otherwise, I don't think they are available in the USA, and have to be ordered from Germany.


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#14 havasman

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 10:42 PM

About a year ago I had the ES100 9mm, WO XWA9 and TVE10 at the same time. I had the WO 1st and got the others about the same time after using the WO for 6 or 8 months. I thought the optics of the ES & WO really close with the WO being just a bit cleaner with a crisp white balance I liked. The WO ergonomics were a Jekyll & Hyde deal - the 1.25/2" adaption is the best ever (TV take note!) and the build is superb (ES take note!) but the oversize eyecup is torturous. I sold the ES pretty quickly and the WO shortly after and have never regretted keeping the TVE10. It's a great eyepiece. BUT if the WO XWA9 had fit my face better I would likely still have it and be very happy with it.

 

Last week I got a TVE13 that's replaced an ES100 14 I've had for quite a while. I pulled the trigger largely based on my experience with the shorter focal lengths. Last night was 1st session with it. It may be the best ep I have now. I'm very pleased with the change.

 

But the ES82 30 and ES100 20 will stay in place at the large exit pupil end of the kit.

 

For me the problem with a Lunt ep is that it's from Lunt. I will likely retain a sour attitude toward that company that came from my 1st interaction with them. But that's just me and not worth going into. And the Stellarview versions are very poorly priced.


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#15 mterrill

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 06:07 AM

I recently picked up the 9mm WO and 20mm Lunt versions. I like the twist up eyecup on the WO because I can dial it in to view the whole field. With the Lunt the eyecup is on the stiffer side so I can only see 90-95% without really jamming my eye pretty hard. You can remove the eyecup but I haven't done that yet. While I enjoy the ergonomics of the 9mm the 20mm WO has a larger eyecup so it is possible the comfort would suffer and that is why I was looking for the Lunt version.

Optically they are very good with a neutral tone. I have never compared to an es100 but it was a bit better than the es68s I have owned.
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#16 dhines32

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 06:12 AM

...the 1.25/2" adaption is the best ever (TV take note!) and the build is superb (ES take note!) but the oversize eyecup is torturous. I sold the ES pretty quickly and the WO shortly after and have never regretted keeping the TVE10. It's a great eyepiece. BUT if the WO XWA9 had fit my face better I would likely still have it and be very happy with it.

 

Thanks for the review. I saw a TVE10 on eBay but missed the bid this past weekend. Someone got it for $375. The seller advertised it as new/unused. 

 

WO's 1.25/2" adapter looks just like the one for the shorter focal length Ethoi, except in anodized black. I have that on the Lunt XWA 5. It's very cool except the threads on the bottom plate need LocTite. When you are screwing the adapter on the barrel, the bottom plate/disc can screw off. I tightened the bottom plate on as tight as I could with my fingertips, and it seems to stay now.

 

It sounds like you might have kept the WO if it had the tapered top like the Lunt models. From your review and others there appears to be a slight difference in the views between the ES100 and WO's. Maybe it's the coatings?



#17 dhines32

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 06:16 AM

Hi mterrill. How do you find the edges of the Lunt XWA 20? What kind of scope do you have if you don't mind me asking.

 

Thanks.

 

-Dan



#18 mterrill

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 11:39 AM

i have 12.5 f4.8 dobsonian without coma corrector.

I haven't had a real good chance to put it through its paces and look closely at the edges. I have only had it out a few times with other people present. I hope take it out to a dark site soon by myself once the weather warms up (had almost a foot of snow this weekend!)

I can say that nothing stood out to me when I used it edge correction wise, I was mostly in awe of the large field (usually use 68 degree eyepieces). I can't say the same for the cheap low power wide fields I have used.
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#19 dhines32

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 01:16 PM

I can say that nothing stood out to me when I used it edge correction wise...

 

At F/4.8 and no coma corrector, that sounds like a pretty well corrected eyepiece. I didn't notice aberrations in my ES100 20 until I really started to look for them at the edges. It does seem to clean up well with my ES HRCC, but I haven't had many nights to properly look. I have been spending too much time swapping in different eyepieces to see how they work with the HRCC. 



#20 Tank

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 02:42 PM

Im sure a coma corrector will help alot it helps my Ethos 21 in a fast scope so im sure a 20 xwa would benefit also


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#21 Tank

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 05:38 PM

Love the look of the WO 9mm xwa

one of the best ive seen

http://agenaastro.co...a-eyepiece.html

WIlliams Optics puts out some nice stuff


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#22 Starman1

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 05:44 PM

Currently available 100-120° eyepieces (sorted by AF, so some companies' entries are split, and no sale prices listed):

Altair Astro (UK) Lightwave Hyperwide Premium HyperWideField PRC 20.00 2.00  $437.99  100
Explore Scientific 100 Series Hyperwide field PRC 5.50 2.00  $399.99  100
Explore Scientific 100 Series Hyperwide field PRC 9.00 2.00  $399.99  100
Explore Scientific 100 Series Hyperwide field PRC 14.00 2.00  $499.99  100
Explore Scientific 100 Series Hyperwide field PRC 20.00 2.00  $399.99  100
Explore Scientific 100 Series Hyperwide field PRC 25.00 2.00  $799.99  100
Explore Scientific 3" Series Hyperwide field PRC 30.00 3.00  $999.99  100
Lunt XWA Hyperwide field  9.00 1.25/2.00  $279.95  100
Lunt XWA Hyperwide field  20.00 2.00  $279.95  100
Magellan (Kokusai Kohki) 100 degree Hyperwide field PRC 5.00 1.25  $244.82  100
Magellan (Kokusai Kohki) 100 degree Hyperwide field PRC 10.00 1.25  $244.82  100
Magellan (Kokusai Kohki) 100 degree Hyperwide field PRC 15.00 2.00  $266.72  100
Magellan (Kokusai Kohki) 100 degree Hyperwide field PRC 21.00 2.00  $266.72  100
Meade Mega Wide Angle Hyperwide field PRC 5.00 1.25  $199.95  100
Meade Mega Wide Angle Hyperwide field PRC 10.00 1.25  $199.95  100
Meade Mega Wide Angle Hyperwide field PRC 15.00 2.00  $269.95  100
Meade Mega Wide Angle Hyperwide field PRC 21.00 2.00  $249.95  100
Omegon Panorama Hyperwide field PRC 9.00 1.25/2.0  $277.88  100
Omegon Panorama Hyperwide field PRC 16.00 2.00  $277.88  100
Skywatcher Myriad Hyper Wide PRC 20.00 2.00  $254.18  100
Stellarvue Optimus Hyper Wide PRC 9.00 1.25/2.00  $419.00  100
Stellarvue Optimus Hyper Wide PRC 20.00 2.00  $499.00  100
Telescope Service SWA Hyperwidefield  5.00 1.25  $255.56  100
Telescope Service SWA Hyperwidefield  10.00 1.25  $255.56  100
Telescope Service SWA Hyperwidefield  15.00 2.00  $300.20  100
Telescope Service SWA Hyperwidefield  21.00 2.00  $300.20  100
Telescope Service XWA Hyperwidefield  9.00 1.25/2.00  $256.68  100
Telescope Service XWA Hyperwidefield  20.00 2.00  $295.74  100
TeleVue Ethos Hyperwidefield ROC 6.00 1.25/2.00  $575.00  100
TeleVue Ethos Hyperwidefield ROC 8.00 1.25/2.00  $575.00  100
TeleVue Ethos Hyperwidefield ROC 10.00 1.25/2.00  $610.00  100
TeleVue Ethos Hyperwidefield ROC 13.00 1.25/2.00  $610.00  100
TeleVue Ethos Hyperwidefield ROC 17.00 2.00  $735.00  100
TeleVue Ethos Hyperwidefield ROC 21.00 2.00  $830.00  100
Zhumell Z100 Hyperwidefield PRC 16.00 2.00  $199.98  100
Skywatcher Myriad Hyper Wide PRC 9.00 1.25/2.00  $225.78  101
William Optics XWA Hyperwidefield PRC 9.00 1.25/2.00  $289.00  101
William Optics XWA Hyperwidefield PRC 20.00 2.00  $289.00  101
Nikon NAV-HW UltraWideField Japan 12.50 1.25/2.00  $882.07  102
Nikon NAV-HW UltraWideField Japan 17.00 2.00  $882.07  102
Lunt XWA Hyperwide field  3.50 1.25/2.00  $279.95  110
Lunt XWA Hyperwide field  4.77 1.25/2.00  $279.95  110
Skywatcher Myriad Hyper Wide PRC 3.50 1.25/2.00  $239.98  110
Skywatcher Myriad Hyper Wide PRC 5.00 1.25/2.00  $239.98  110
Stellarvue Optimus Hyper Wide PRC 3.60 1.25/2.00  $449.00  110
Stellarvue Optimus Hyper Wide PRC 4.70 1.25/2.00  $449.00  110
Telescope Service XWA Hyperwidefield  3.50 1.25/2.00  $267.84  110
Telescope Service XWA Hyperwidefield  5.00 1.25/2.00  $267.84  110
TeleVue Ethos SX Hyperwidefield ROC 3.70 1.25  $610.00  110
TeleVue Ethos SX Hyperwidefield ROC 4.70 1.25  $610.00  110
William Optics XWA Hyperwidefield PRC 3.50 1.25/2.00  $289.00  110
William Optics XWA Hyperwidefield PRC 5.00 1.25/2.00  $289.00  110
Explore Scientific 120 Series Hyperwide field PRC 9.00 2.00  $899.99  120


Edited by Starman1, 05 April 2016 - 05:45 PM.

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#23 dhines32

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 07:50 AM

Does anyone know if the 20mm XWA (Lunt/WO/Myriad) is parfocal with the rest of its line or the ES100 9 and 14? My ES100 20mm seems to require much more infocus that the others. It bottomed out last night. I may need to adjust my primary's position again.



#24 Tank

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:38 PM

I find the WO xwa 20 has very similar focus point as the 21 Ethos

 

this spring/summer should be intresting

also a freind has the 20 es 100 to add to the mix

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Edited by Tank, 19 April 2016 - 09:40 PM.

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#25 Tank

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 09:41 PM

difference in coatings

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Edited by Tank, 19 April 2016 - 09:44 PM.

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