428 replies to this topic

[entilza]

I decided to try one of the Intel compute sticks, one thing holding me back on the older version was the single USB port, with the new version having 2 with one as a 3.0 I thought I'd give it a try.

 

 

Size / Specs:
 

4.5" x .5" x .5"

 

Small is an understatement, so finding a place for this little unit should not be a problem.

 

Windows 10

atom-x5-z8300 processor up to 1.84ghz

32 GB flash storage

2 GB RAM

Wifi AC, Blue Tooth

2x USB (1x3.0 and 1x2.0)

HDMI connector

Micro SD Card reader

 

Power:

The supplied power supply outputs 5V / 3A.  It is an AC adapter with various connectors, to a micro USB.  I was able to just use my cell phone charging cable, and a cigarette->USB port adapter which was rated at 5V / 2.1A  and plugged it into my main battery.  It powered up fine.  I've been running it exclusively for 2 days with the battery and no problems.  After the first 6 hours I plugged my main battery to recharge and it did not even register as it needing a recharge.

 

In fact I was able to plug my 4 port USB hub - unpowered and it powered the guider/dslr/mount fine, all on an unpowered hub.  Even with the polemaster running it worked on the unpowered hub.

 

I ran a series of dark tests capturing while PHD was running and no issues.  I am not advocating an unpowered hub just so far I've been able to get away without one even with my laptop thus far.

 

It gets warm but never gets hotter or colder, really it stays steady.  I may put it next to the usb-hub to keep it warm for any dew.

 

Windows 10:

Windows 10 performance seems very good, however there was a very large update that took very long.  I found out that Microsoft recently bundled all their fixes into an enormous patch.  This patch took at least 3 hours to complete.  It looked as if it was re-installing windows at one point however fear not it will complete.  Performance seemed better after that patch as well.

 

File space after all updates / disk clean up / installing all my astro apps:  SGP / PHD2 / astrometry / pole master / ASCOM =  16.5GB.

 

SGP performance:

Platesolving took 9s to plate solve with the local astrometry ANSVR.  I think that's reasonable.  My laptop did it in 5.

 

When SGP Downloads from my DSLR there is a high cpu spike, it seems to be the 'dcraw' process, probably the large 24MB / pixels being converted from Nikon NEF to fits.  It used to take about 6 seconds to download an image now it's taking around 12.  This is the only 'slow' feeling i experienced using this compared to my laptop.  That and opening NEF files into SGP.  I'm not sure how this would be with a canon.  I don't have a CCD but if it's going directly from FIT I would assume it's performance would not be affected at all.

 

 

Memory usage:
With everything running I still have 1GB  free memory and it seems to manage it very well.  I originally thought the 2GB limit was not enough but it's actually fine.

 

 

Internal Micro SD card:

I added a 64GB SD card that plugs right into the compute stick.  This gave me some more room.  Here I made a backup image of the current system and copied all the installation software.

 

One very important note here is you must enable 'write caching' on this SD card or it will be dreadfully slow.  I thought SGP crashed but it took 60 seconds to save an image, I tracked it down to this.  Luckily this is one click away to correct by going into the device manager on your drive and enable the write-caching feature.

 

This gives me enough room for a nights imaging for sure.

 

Remote access:
I was able to use tight vnc to remote access but without the dummy-hdmi adapter my polemaster screen was not visible. 

 

To solve this you can either get a headless adapter, I'm not sure if teamviewer would fix this but it's worth a try if it's remote desktop is better.

 

I ended up installing the RDPwrap which gives the standard remote desktop functionality on windows home.  If you are interested in this check out the tech section at bottom.

 

I am currently using my phone and laptop for remoting into the machine.  The phone is great for just quick status updates as to what's happening, but I like the bigger screen on the laptop as it's more functional. 

 

You can use microsoft's "on screen keyboard"  for arrow keys which I found helpful for using the polemaster.  (Just run "osk.exe"  in windows and click the nav button)

 

Wifi:

Wifi performace is great, one thing I did add in the picture at the top is a 'micro router' for $15.  I plan to use this at remote sites where I am not on my local network at home.  This little box will give you your own private network to connect to your telescope and phone / laptop.  It only needs a power port and does not need to be connected to the computer at all physically.

 

 

First Light:  None yet, will update next time I can.

 

This was a fun ongoing project, so we'll see how it works out. Note there is a newer version of this stick coming out in the near future with newer m-core processors that should be even more powerful.  I figured if this one didn't work out I can always use it on our TV to make it a computer TV.  I actually used it that way when i first set it up we all enjoyed watching youtube on there and I had a remote keyboard/mouse which made it quite fun but that's aside from the astro-purpose

 

 

 

 

 

 

Random Technical Tips (You can skip this) ---------------------------------------------

 

File space:

 

File space when I started was 18.5 Free
File space when I ran disck cleanup and "powercfg -h off" (which turns off hibernation):  19.6gb
File space after the 'massive' windows updates 10.6GB !
File space after disk cleanup 17.6gb

 

Memory:

I did try to uninstall a few programs that will not be used.  For example one was after the windows updated an intel keyboard/phone app was installed that was continually using 5% of the CPU, this can be uninstalled to save memory/cpu.

 

BIOS:

I upgraded to the latest bios/drivers on the intel website with no issues.  I used the USB key to install the BIOS, not the windows executable.

 

How to Disable Windows defender:  (At Your own risk)
 

Add these 2 keys to the registry:

 

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows Defender

DisableAntiSpyware 1 DWORD
DisableRoutinelyTakingAction 1  DWORD

 

RDPWrap ( gives remote desktop access)

Google around until you find "stascorp" github and after you install it run the 'update' 

[syscore]

Thanks for posting this. For the time being I am sticking with my netbook, but I am watching. This would be cool to install permanently (in a box) on my pier.

[rgsalinger]

Teamviewer will not fix the need for an adapter, nor will anything else I could find with mine. My understanding is that the HDMI spec has security controls to prevent theft of movies and the like so the driver needs to detect some device to output the stream.

Rgrds-Ross

[Pauls72]

There was a big push by the movie and entertainment companies to get HDMI locked down. They also pushed very hard to get all the HDMI encryption and decryption done only in hardware. So currently no more software HDMI encryption and decryption. Unfortunately this is a case of where one industries heavy handed enforcement tactics is having a negative effect on the rest of us.

 

For my Stick PC, I have it configured to connect to the following via WiFi:

Home Router

An old NetGear Router that runs off of 12V. (I replaced it when I when to 1GB wired. So it's 10/100 wired and 300mb WiFi.)  Makes a nice secure WiFi network.

Virtual Router running on my tablet or laptop.

 

I picked up one of these powered USB 2.0 hubs when they where on sale for $10. It came with an AC power adapter 120VAC to 5VDC.

http://www.microcent...Port_USB_20_Hub

 

The USB hub runs of of 5V with a 2.5mm O.D. coax power plug. So I got one of these adapter kits to power it off of 12V in the field. I actually got 2, one for my imaging kit and one for my visual kit.

http://www.ebay.com/...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

I installed all the astronomy software I needed on the D:\ drive (microSD card) and have been saving sub's there too. It's much quicker to pop the memory card out, put it in the adapter and plug it in my laptop than to copy them across the WiFi. I have a second 64GB microSD card that has everything from the first one cloned on to it.

 

I have the time out's disabled in the Windows control panel power settings. Also have the screen time out disabled.

 

In your WiFi settings be sure and turn on Metered Connection. I got burned when Windows installed an update and then at the next reboot it was sitting there waiting for an operator to respond to a prompt of did I want to create a new Backup Save Point, before it finished loading Windows.

 

As entilza says you need to do a disk cleanup after installing all the updates.

 

I don't own SGP yet, but everything else I need to capture is there and running with no problems.

 

[TimN]

I recently installed a similar device. However, mine was a Quantum Access mini PC Stick. It seems to have similar specs but it has a separate antennae which I think improves wifi performance. It has 2 usb ports and one is a mini. I've added an adapter to the mini and each usb port goes to a 4 port usb hub. I use chrome cast devices on my TV and they come with 4 inch HDMI extenders.As I don't need them on my TV, I've attached one of those to the HDMI port of the mini PC and I can now control the mini PC remotely. I use both splashtop and teamviewer.

 

Since I've installed it, I've had a few nights clear enough to image. SGP and all the related software works perfectly. All my programs are on the device. However, I plug in a usb stick before I image to hold my subs. When I'm done, I bring the usb stick in the house and load the images unto my desktop for processing. So far so good.

[rainycityastro]

Thanks for posting this. I would probably dispense with my laptop in the field as soon as they increase the memory to around 4 GB. 

So you would just run teamviewer to control this USB stick in the field then?

[N1ghtSc0p3]

I've tried the Azulle stick PC (Win 8.1, 2GB RAM, 32GB on-board +128GB MicroSD).  The problem I run into is that over my WiFi from my backyard to my house, running TheSkyX is prohibitively slow.  I may need to try some of the tricks noted here, as well as setting up a dedicated wifi router (without internet connection).  However, I, too, am eagerly awaiting one of these PC sticks with 4GB RAM. 

[entilza]

Hey, I was first using Tight VNC which is a very light weight Remote desktop package.  However I am now able to use Microsoft's built in remote desktop.    You can also use teamviewer if you prefer, just without internet you'll have to set it up for a local network.

 

As mentioned I have 1GB free memory with everything running.  I'm not sure how memory intensive SkyX is but you can check your memory usage in the windows task manager.

 

I should be able to test this setup out tonight.  I'm having trouble picking what to image  It may be M3 or M51 but I was hoping to save M51 for darker skies than my backyard, M3 might be a better backyard target.

 

Since I am at home I will use my home network for the first test.

[microstar]

I use an InFocus Kangaroo mini-PC. Very similar specs and controls my mobile setup equipment with SGP and PHD2 very much like your report. Also use it with my ZEO ASI178MM for solar/lunar/planetary with FireCapture. One nice feature of the Kangaroo is the OSlinx software that allows you to use you iPad as a control/monitor interface. Also has a direct access wireless switch that allow you to control it using VNC software (I use RealVNC).
...Keith

[akulapanam]

I use an InFocus Kangaroo mini-PC. Very similar specs and controls my mobile setup equipment with SGP and PHD2 very much like your report. Also use it with my ZEO ASI178MM for solar/lunar/planetary with FireCapture. One nice feature of the Kangaroo is the OSlinx software that allows you to use you iPad as a control/monitor interface. Also has a direct access wireless switch that allow you to control it using VNC software (I use RealVNC).
...Keith

 

The problem with the Kangaroo is that it doesn't have a fan.  This will make it hard to use in some areas of the country with high night time temps.

 

Teamviewer will not fix the need for an adapter, nor will anything else I could find with mine. My understanding is that the HDMI spec has security controls to prevent theft of movies and the like so the driver needs to detect some device to output the stream.

Rgrds-Ross

The intel stick doesn't need anything plugged in the HDMI.  I just leave the cap on, Velcro to the mount, RDC in, and go.

Edited by akulapanam, 12 April 2016 - 10:48 PM.

[microstar]

I use an InFocus Kangaroo mini-PC. Very similar specs and controls my mobile setup equipment with SGP and PHD2 very much like your report. Also use it with my ZEO ASI178MM for solar/lunar/planetary with FireCapture. One nice feature of the Kangaroo is the OSlinx software that allows you to use you iPad as a control/monitor interface. Also has a direct access wireless switch that allow you to control it using VNC software (I use RealVNC).
...Keith

 
The problem with the Kangaroo is that it doesn't have a fan.  This will make it hard to use in some areas of the country with high night time temps.

Good point. It is true that the Kangaroo can get quite hot even when operated at room temp. I'm in Canada at 54N, so on those rare nights that it actually gets hot, it's mid-summer and too light to image anyway. Might be a worry when travelling to warmer climes though. I'll probably look into a miniature battery-operated fan for travel.
...Keith

[entilza]

I'm imaging tonight, the stick is working perfectly happy to report, unfortunately my guiding seems horrible today for some reason..

 

I did use my laptop to run the polemaster, my cell phone is just too small to do it quickly, a tablet would help with this greatly.

 

The issue with the HDMI was with the polemaster screen appearing as white.  However with Microsoft Remote desktop it resolved that totally.

[TimN]

It's been my experience that these type PC sticks can be flaky if they don't detect a suitable connection to the HDMI connector. Rather than trying to work around this you can just connect a dummy connector and everything will work perfectly. You can buy these or in my case, I just used a 4 inch HDMI extension that came with my chrome cast.

[james7ca]

Thanks for making this report, very useful.

[Pauls72]

HDMI Headless/Dummy plug

 

HDMI Female/Female coupler

 

 

[james7ca]

Any more updates on this?

 

I've actually been testing just such a setup (the 2016, Intel Compute Stick) for the last ten days. Thus far I've run sessions on four or five different nights/days but as yet I haven't been able to image the sky because it has been cloudy here for the last two weeks (May gray in San Diego, you often don't even get to see the sun let alone the stars at night).

 

I've found a couple of things which seem at bit at odds with what was reported by Martin (the OP). I tried running the system using a 5V 2.4A recharging plug that was connected to a 12V source. It worked only periodically as sometimes the system would not appear to boot (couldn't connect remotely). According to some reviews that I've seen the system can often use up to 10 watts and I don't think that even includes any power that could be drawn by the peripherals. The A/C power adapter that comes with the Compute Stick is rated for 15W (5V, 3A). In my case, I was using a powered USB3 hub and connected to that were an ASI178MM-Cool and a Xagyl filter changer. However, I haven't yet given up on trying to run the system from a 5V power source, but on reflection I realized that it would actually be easier and somewhat "cleaner" just to use A/C power with the power adapters that came with the hardware.

 

Given that I've now started testing using an A/C inverter that is connected to a 12V source (using the power adapters that came with the Compute Stick and the USB3 hub). Under those conditions the system seems to run pretty reliably.

 

For remote access I decided to use TeamViewer (free for private individual use) and connect with either my Mac mini or my 9.7" iPad Pro (the latter to be used in the field rather than having to rely on a notebook computer). I am also using an HDMI dummy plug on the Compute Stick to enable video compatibility with every app that I plan to run. I've found with TeamViewer that the video output can be hit or miss if I'm not using the HDMI dummy.

 

As for the consumption of resources on the Compute Stick, I'd say that this year's device is only just adequate for what I plan on doing. The Windows 10 resource/performance monitor shows about 500KB free (best case, I've seen somewhat worse) when I'm running everything over the remote connection (this is another difference from what Martin reported). This includes TeamViewer, PhD 2.X (actively guiding), Sequence Generator Pro (actively capturing), my Tele Vue digital focus indicator, the ASCOM driver for my mount, and the aforementioned performance monitor itself. CPU use frequently peaks at 100% but I think a good amount of that is from TeamViewer when it is sending remote updates from a very active screen (dragging windows around, updates to the displayed image in FireCapture or SGP). However, even without much activity on the screen I've seen CPU peaks hit 100% for short periods of time (usually, I think, when a download is happening in SGP or when FireCapture is running at a maximum framerate).

 

The connected devices are as follows:

 

USB3 4-port hub (connected to the USB3 port on the Compute Stick)

QHY5L-II guider (connected directly to the USB2 port on the Compute Stick)

ZWO ASI178MM-Cool (connected to the USB3 hub)

Xagyl filter changer (connected to the USB3 hub)

Two Port Serial Adapter for the mount and the Tele Vue digital focus indicator (connected to the USB3 hub) 

 

All of the above devices are powered by either the USB2 port on the Compute Stick or the USB3 hub (where the latter is powered by its own A/C power adapter).

 

I'm also using the 5GHz 802.11AC on the Compute Stick for the remote connection. I found that trying to use the 2.4GHz band didn't work as a result of the USB3 devices I had connected to the hub.

 

I've also used the Compute Stick's micro SD slot for a 64GB Samsung Pro UHS-I, class 10, U3 speed card that delivers pretty reliable 60 to 70MB/s write speeds and reads of over 80MB/s. The I/O to the SD card seems more than adequate and you can buy the 64GB cards from Amazon for less than $30. These cards even work when I've tried high-speed imaging using FireCapture. In fact the memory buffering that is used in FireCapture seems to get along with these cards better than the ultra fast SSD that I have on my notebook computer. One thing to note, as the OP mentioned you want to turn on the Windows file caching for the SD cards, otherwise the I/O will suffer pretty notably.

 

My goal is to have a small box that contains the Intel Compute Stick and the USB3 hub that can be mounted on the scope (perhaps behind the guide scope on the rear ring set for the main optical tube). Thus, by monitoring and controlling everything over WiFi I'll have only one cord running up the mount to the scope and that will be for the 115V A/C power to the Compute Stick and the USB3 hub power supplies. In the field I'll use the iPad Pro and while at home I'll use both my iPad and Mac mini (while inside) to connect over WiFi to the Compute Stick. I also plan on using a separate 802.11AC WiFi basestation while in the field (also powered by an A/C inverter run from a high-capacity 12V marine battery).

 

On additional thing to note, with TeamViewer I'd rate the video update rate over WiFi as merely adequate for live focusing using something like a Bahtinov mask but I think I'll be okay with that for DSOs. However, I'm not sure that live focusing on planets and the moon will be responsive enough over the WiFi connection. However, since I've not yet had any clear skies to test that I don't yet know for certain one way or the other.

 

Lastly, here is what a remote connection looks like on my Mac mini with TeamViewer on a 1920 x 1200 display (showing multiple apps running on the Compute Stick):

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by james7ca, 21 May 2016 - 07:01 AM.

[james7ca]

Here are some screen shots from my iPad running TeamViewer while connected to the Intel Compute Stick.

 

PhD was "guiding" on a fixed artificial star. The Task Manager screen shows the CPU usage while capturing with Sequence Generator Pro (SGP).

Attached Thumbnails

• 
• 

Edited by james7ca, 21 May 2016 - 06:47 AM.

[entilza]

Hey James thanks for your update, I'll get back to this later tonight I am heading to "AstroCats" an astro show here in Toronto.

 

A quick note I have had zero issues with it running off of my battery power supply with that 2.1A/5V converter, I haven't tried fire capture though which for planetary I believe needs a stronger cpu but I can give it a try.

 

I think you meant 500MB free not KB.  Windows sort of compresses the memory as it's going along so it may increase if you just leave it after a while.  You can also try temporarily disabling the anti virus just by clicking "turn off real time protection temporarily"  if that improves performance try the registry trick.  Also turn off the updates by setting a metered connection, you never know when microsoft is trying to do it's update checks.

 

Apparently the new version of SGP uses less memory, but if you use the "HFR" button it is slower than the old versions, not a big deal as they improved it from taking like 30+ seconds earlier due to their HFR calculation changes for the autofocus routine.

 

Later I'll post a screenshot of my apps.  Also post the memory tab of the screen so you can see how much memory each app is actually using.

[syscore]

Which version would be a plug in replacement to this? ...

 

http://www.amazon.co...ds=hp stream 11

 

I would only need 2GB Ram and 32GB SSD. It's the processor speed I am unsure of.

 

I would be running RDP and simply transfer everything I am running on the netbook above over to the stick.

[pfile]

is there any chance that one can install windows 7 on one of these things? or is the driver situation hopeless?

 

rob

[syscore]

I would think only the Atom Processor Version. YOu would need to purchase a 64bit windows license though.

http://www.amazon.co...ailpage_o05_s00

 

Thanks.

[ccs_hello]

Which version would be a plug in replacement to this? ...

 

http://www.amazon.co...ds=hp stream 11

 

I would only need 2GB Ram and 32GB SSD. It's the processor speed I am unsure of.

 

I would be running RDP and simply transfer everything I am running on the netbook above over to the stick.

This specific model is using Braswell dual-core CPU/SoC N3050 (2MB cache.)

It is very similar with Cherry-Trail X5-Z8500 (as used in Kangaroo PC) which has a quad-core CPU.

Both use the same airmont/silvermont microarchitecture. They are cousins.

 

Please note in such low TDP/SDP constraint and small form-factor, comparing raw CPU horsepower is a bit meaningless.

 

Also, it's hard to compare a laptop/nettop with a headless mini-PC or compute stick.

 

One more critical factor: 2GB RAM and 32GB eMMC (the C: drive) when running Windows, is an artificial way to cripple the high performance.

IMHO, it's a teaser with no way out other than buying a "real PC".

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello

[ccs_hello]

is there any chance that one can install windows 7 on one of these things? or is the driver situation hopeless?

 

rob

Yep. Pretty hopeless.  "They" try very hard to discourage people to go back to 7.

[ccs_hello]

I would think only the Atom Processor Version. YOu would need to purchase a 64bit windows license though.

http://www.amazon.co...ailpage_o05_s00

 

This gadget (BOXSTK1AW32SC) is using CherryTrail X5-Z8300 2G/32G w/ included W10Home 32bit license.

 

Similar Kangaroo PC: also using CherryTrail but slightly better X5-Z8500 2G/32G w/ included W10Home 64bit license.

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello

[ccs_hello]

Anyone using the M3 or M5 processor verion of the compute stick or do you think that's overkill for a remote image acquisition pc? 

 

These are gen 6 "real/main stream" Skylake CPU from Intel.  They are not using cheap ATOM CPUs as in normal stick/mini-PCs.

For image acquisition, it an overkill and super expensive.

For heavy digital image processing, AVX and AVX2 instruction set really helps.

 

Also such Intel Compute Sticks have 4GB RAM / 64GB eMMC and a real W10 Home license (not the free one.)

 

However, please understand the low TDP/SDP rating with small form factor set the low artificial ceiling for performance/

 

Also the usb3 only stick might make it less attractive.

This is in reality IMHO not a major issue.  Attaching a USB3 active hub, it will handle USB2 devices and USB3 devices sufficiently.

(Unless using two USB3 superspeed isochronous mode imagers simultaneously.)

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello