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TEST: ASI1600MM-Cool

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#76 matejmihelcic

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 05:13 AM

M13: 40x30 sec for L channel and 30x30 sec for each R,G and B channel. There are only flats used. Camera settings: 0/10 (highest dynamic range), -30C, bin 2x2. Captured with AS300 (300/1200mm) + Voyager + MaximDl + FocusMax practically under full Moon.

 

HR image: https://www.dropbox....SI1600.png?dl=0

 

M13_LRGB_ASI1600.jpg


Edited by matejmihelcic, 21 April 2016 - 05:18 AM.

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#77 dwkdnvr

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 08:55 AM

 

Thanks A. Viegas(4/19). But I may be amiss, I thought Sam said the only one that has access to the Chip was the uncooled camera?  

Sorry, but maybe I dont understand exactly what you are trying to do...  but from what i can see there are four ways to attach the camera to a scope...

 

1.  you can screw in a 1.25" barrel to the existing black ring you see in the photo

2.  you can screw ina c-mount adapter into the black ring

3.  you can remove the black ring and screw the camera directly into a filter wheel which as I said I think is about the same thread size as what you could screw a typical SCT 2" reducer into. This means you can screw this also into a 2" holder or hyperstar lens too

4.  you can remove the screws from the protective AR window and remove the ring and the glass protection for the sensor, exposing it...

 

I could be wrong but all the ASI cameras seem to have this same basic form factor...  and I think the threads are all the same in terms of attachments...  hence if you can look at an existing 174MM cool you can see if that camera can be adapted to whatever imaging reducer/flattener you need to attach.

 

Al

 

 

they may not be the same on the ASI1600, but on my ASI224 the threads on the camera body are T-threads, not SCT threads.  For EAA use this is convenient as I have put together a reducer chain using various T-thread spacers that can connect directly to the camera.  I'd expect that the direct-connection of the ASI1600 to a filter wheel suggests they are also T-threads.



#78 bigeastro

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:14 AM

Well,

This is getting interesting. The images look very good. What sort of filter wheel and OAG would be an optimum match for this camera? Frosting is a big concern in humid tropics. I don't see much documentation on the methodology for keeping frosting off the chip or glass. I don't suppose this is a heated glass scenario. Is the desiccant user changeable?

#79 Thirteen

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:36 AM

I can't confirm on this camera but the cooled ASI174 ships with extra desiccant tabs to swap when an issue is detected. The sensor chamber is not hermetically sealed but the top of the camera that holds the protection window can be unscrewed exposing the sensor and the tabs can be changed. Sam from ZWO says it could be years before it is necessary. I've been using that camera for 6 months and haven't noticed any frosting. Its been winter though. Summer does have decent humidity in my area so we will soon find out how the system works.

Again, I am just assuming this camera is the same.

Edited by Thirteen, 21 April 2016 - 09:37 AM.

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#80 A. Viegas

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:37 AM

Well,

This is getting interesting. The images look very good. What sort of filter wheel and OAG would be an optimum match for this camera? Frosting is a big concern in humid tropics. I don't see much documentation on the methodology for keeping frosting off the chip or glass. I don't suppose this is a heated glass scenario. Is the desiccant user changeable?

I can confirm the threads are indeed T threads, sorry if I confused anyone with mention of SCT threads, but they are T threads.  You can also purchase a T2 to M43 adapter and a T2 to EOS adapter. 

I attach the camera directly to my Nautilus filter wheel, and it can also attach directly to my old Orion manual 1.25" filter wheel.   ZWO has a new electronic filter wheel that they are planning to release next month as well   here is a link to the new filter wheel:  https://www.facebook...?type=3



#81 bigeastro

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:38 AM

Based on the size of the chip we are probably looking at 36mm filters at most?

#82 tolgagumus

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:40 AM

 

 

Thanks A. Viegas(4/19). But I may be amiss, I thought Sam said the only one that has access to the Chip was the uncooled camera?  

Sorry, but maybe I dont understand exactly what you are trying to do...  but from what i can see there are four ways to attach the camera to a scope...

 

1.  you can screw in a 1.25" barrel to the existing black ring you see in the photo

2.  you can screw ina c-mount adapter into the black ring

3.  you can remove the black ring and screw the camera directly into a filter wheel which as I said I think is about the same thread size as what you could screw a typical SCT 2" reducer into. This means you can screw this also into a 2" holder or hyperstar lens too

4.  you can remove the screws from the protective AR window and remove the ring and the glass protection for the sensor, exposing it...

 

I could be wrong but all the ASI cameras seem to have this same basic form factor...  and I think the threads are all the same in terms of attachments...  hence if you can look at an existing 174MM cool you can see if that camera can be adapted to whatever imaging reducer/flattener you need to attach.

 

Al

 

 

they may not be the same on the ASI1600, but on my ASI224 the threads on the camera body are T-threads, not SCT threads.  For EAA use this is convenient as I have put together a reducer chain using various T-thread spacers that can connect directly to the camera.  I'd expect that the direct-connection of the ASI1600 to a filter wheel suggests they are also T-threads.

 

They are T threads. The black ring has female T threads. The ring comes off and the camera itself had male T threads, which screws straight to the filter wheel. When you take the ring off the back focus is 6.5 mm. 


Edited by tolgagumus, 21 April 2016 - 09:47 AM.


#83 bigeastro

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 09:44 AM

Thanks Thirteen,

I do suppose you can look at the 174 as an example of what would be used on the 1600. Has there been any reports of frosting on the 174? How about real life cool down temperatures. The larger sensor will test the system further. More surface area and thermal leaking.

#84 A. Viegas

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:20 AM

Based on the size of the chip we are probably looking at 36mm filters at most?

You can use 1.25" filters, but they are just barely adequate to cover the entire chip.  I can take a picture of the filter w/ sensor this weekend so you can see the clearance.  Arguably, 2" filters would be ideal, but their cost can be prohibitively high...
 



#85 syscore

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:27 AM

 

Based on the size of the chip we are probably looking at 36mm filters at most?

You can use 1.25" filters, but they are just barely adequate to cover the entire chip.  I can take a picture of the filter w/ sensor this weekend so you can see the clearance.  Arguably, 2" filters would be ideal, but their cost can be prohibitively high...
 

 

 

 

This is especially true depending on how far away from the chip the filters are, but this camera has a small back focus (6.5 mm I think?). On my 8300, which is almost the same size, I went with 36 mm filters, which are cheaper than 2" filters, and there is no vignetting. With my QSI camera, which is also an 8300, I am going with 31 mm, but they are in the camera body, closer to the chip, so smaller is ok. But for an external filter wheel, 36 mm is sufficient.



#86 matejmihelcic

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:55 AM

Guys, for FW and filters details please look my first post.



#87 FiremanDan

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:05 AM

I was really hoping for 1.25 filters! 

Anyone who has this camera, can they post calibrated lights? I took the PNG into PI and played with the histogram, I see a lot of vertical banding and it seems the blacks are clipped. 
get.jpg

I don't normally see this kind of banding unless my T3i is pretty hot. Like 98 F ambient. 

Am I being too critical of this, or could the processed PNG have processing artifacts that I am mistaking for sensor issues? 

 

*EDIT My mistake, I found some of the files in drop box from the original post. 
Where calibration frames taken for this above image? 


Edited by FiremanDan, 21 April 2016 - 11:08 AM.


#88 Madratter

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:08 AM

The M13 is a good image. :)

 

It is over saturated for my tastes.


Edited by Madratter, 21 April 2016 - 11:09 AM.


#89 Jon Rista

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:10 AM

Guys, for FW and filters details please look my first post.

 

Thanks! How do you like the Xagyl FW?



#90 jlandy

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:25 AM

speaking of filters... I was kinda assuming I would have to buy a 2" set. I have some cheapo 1.25" I could play with before taking the plunge even further, would a 2" to 1.25" adapter work?



#91 bigeastro

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:28 AM

Thanks for the re-direct on the filter and the filter wheel. So, I guess that the 1.25 " filters are producing no vignetting?.

I am pricing this out in my head and you can probably get a full setup minus the OAG for about $2400 including a new compliment of Baader LRGB and NB filters. I picked Baader as mainstream quality filter. That is a great deal to say the least and very enticing. In looking at the little documentation available on the web site I notice some hesitation in regards to stating the full delta of the camera for cooling and extended periods of operation. My imaging continues the entire night so I start the camera at 7 pm and stop at 6am. So a full 11 hours. It seems that like my DSLR the camera continues to get hotter and hotter as the night progresses and the exposures get longer. Do you still have 40 to 45 degree delta at the end of the imaging term say about 11 hours of use?

I am starting to get swayed away from the 16200 due to sheer apparent value.

Is there any downside to binning the camera?
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#92 bigeastro

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:31 AM

Fireman Dan,

Given your budget this is probably your camera.
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#93 bigeastro

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:33 AM

Jon,

What are you thinking, still hooked on that QHY 16200?



#94 FiremanDan

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:43 AM

Fireman Dan,

Given your budget this is probably your camera.

Just put in a deposit with OPT for it! 


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#95 FiremanDan

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:47 AM

I have been so hesitant on this camera for two reasons, first, it sounds too good to be true. Cooled monochrome with low noise capable of narrowband and a "large" sensor for under $3000? Let alone under $1500!!!!! Sounds like a scam! 
The second reason is it's brand new and there are only a handful of files from this camera floating around the internet. 
Now that I have one on order, I have to figure out the filter wheel (maybe manual just to get started) and spacing between my SV80's FR and my C8's FR to sensor and the needed adapters. 
 


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#96 matejmihelcic

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:47 AM

 

Guys, for FW and filters details please look my first post.

 

Thanks! How do you like the Xagyl FW?

 

Very good product.



#97 A. Viegas

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:15 PM

I have been so hesitant on this camera for two reasons, first, it sounds too good to be true. Cooled monochrome with low noise capable of narrowband and a "large" sensor for under $3000? Let alone under $1500!!!!! Sounds like a scam! 
The second reason is it's brand new and there are only a handful of files from this camera floating around the internet. 
Now that I have one on order, I have to figure out the filter wheel (maybe manual just to get started) and spacing between my SV80's FR and my C8's FR to sensor and the needed adapters. 
 

Dan-

This Saturday night, assuming the sky conditions cooperate   :fingerscrossed:    I will try and broadcast on www.beta.nightskiesnetwork.com    This is the beta site for the new high resolution NSN (Nightskiesnetwork),  you can register for free.  Figure 9 to 10pm EDT start time.  On the site, you can ask specific questions and see in real-time image acquisition and camera controls.  So I invite you and anyone else curious about this camera to come and check it out.   I will be running this camera and the 174MM-cool simultaneously on two scopes.  The latter camera I will be testing some H-alpha captures.

Al


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#98 FiremanDan

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:37 PM

Awesome. I work Saturday, but hopefully the call volume will be conducive to viewing. 



#99 Jon Rista

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:44 PM

Jon,

What are you thinking, still hooked on that QHY 16200?

 

I think in the long term, yes. However in the short term...I may go for the 1600. The nice thing about it, having such low read noise, is it would be better for NB, which I need. Even at it's worst, read noise would be 3.5e-, vs. the 10e- or more with the G3. Significant difference. It would be faster to image with, so I could mosaic if I really needed to for larger fields, and I wouldn't necessarily need to spend exorbitant amounts of time doing so. 

 

I just need to figure out the FW situation. I had considered getting an SX FW for the G3-16200. I may still do that, still go with 2" filters, even though they are more expensive, so long as I could also use that FW on the ASI1600. Then I could use a single FW and save some cost when I finally get the G3-16200.

 

I just need to figure out if the new 9-pos SX FW would actually work with the ASI1600...and, I am not even sure that is out yet. 



#100 Thirteen

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 01:30 PM


Jon,
What are you thinking, still hooked on that QHY 16200?


I think in the long term, yes. However in the short term...I may go for the 1600. The nice thing about it, having such low read noise, is it would be better for NB, which I need. Even at it's worst, read noise would be 3.5e-, vs. the 10e- or more with the G3. Significant difference. It would be faster to image with, so I could mosaic if I really needed to for larger fields, and I wouldn't necessarily need to spend exorbitant amounts of time doing so.

I just need to figure out the FW situation. I had considered getting an SX FW for the G3-16200. I may still do that, still go with 2" filters, even though they are more expensive, so long as I could also use that FW on the ASI1600. Then I could use a single FW and save some cost when I finally get the G3-16200.

I just need to figure out if the new 9-pos SX FW would actually work with the ASI1600...and, I am not even sure that is out yet.

It's hard to resist the dark side...cmos revolution...whatever you want to call it.


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