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APM 120mm ED APO binoculars

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#1 ArsMachina

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 05:24 AM

As there are more informations about the new and upcoming APM 120mm APO binoculars available I think it is time to open a thread dedicated to this instrument.

 

As told before in another thread APM will make a 120mm version of his well known 100mm APO binoculars.

As the small version it will be available with 45° and 90° eyepiece holders and it will accept 1,25" eyepieces.

 

Sorry guys, no 2" eyepieces this time to keep size, weight and costs in a acceptable range.

But with 24mm Panoptics you will get 2.6° of field at 26x magnification what is for sure very nice with 120mm aperture...

 

The focal length will be 625mm so it will be faster than the 100mm version.

To get the same optical quality and color correction FPL53 glass will be used this time, instead of FK61 at the 100mm version

 

 

The tripod mount will be detachable, so one can install a center mount similar as it is available for the Kowa Highlander.

 

Here are two pictures of the new 120mm instrument.

I do not yet have the weight, but it is estimated to be around 10 KG (20 lbs)

 

120ED-1.JPG

 

120ED-2.JPG

 

Best wishes Jochen

 



#2 Mad Matt

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 08:17 AM

Cool!!! and of course... it must be asked... WHEN?!?!?!  :crazy:  :grin:
 













....and will it come with fingernails? ;-)













.


Edited by Mad Matt, 20 April 2016 - 08:20 AM.


#3 Alex_V

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 08:45 AM

... and how much?   ...approximately



#4 MB_PL

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 09:04 AM

...And the clear aperture on the eyepiece side plus the diameter of the circle of full illumination ;)

#5 denis0007dl

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 09:44 AM

Yes, I would like to know all datas just asked!

#6 Mad Matt

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:09 AM

OK, so this thread is now opened for speculation... may I?  :grin:

 

In the picture it appears that they are "simply" putting newly developed cells on the existing prism housings. This is good as a cost saving measure but, in combination with the faster focal ratio (=steeper light cone), I fear they will still be challenged with the false EP's.

 

On the other hand, what I like about using the existing housing (if that is true) is that they would still work well with my Binoptic fork.

 

If they will be using FPL53 (and not the Chinese equivalent) then I fear these might end well above the 4k€ mark.


Edited by Mad Matt, 20 April 2016 - 10:09 AM.


#7 ArsMachina

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:48 AM

No Matt, from what I have heard it will stay close below the 4k mark in Europe and the USA ;-)

And yes, it will use the same prisms and prism housings as the 100mm

This was the only chance to keep the price low.

 

Sorry, no timeline yet...

 

Jochen


Edited by ArsMachina, 20 April 2016 - 10:51 AM.


#8 Mad Matt

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:06 AM

No Matt, from what I have heard it will stay close below the 4k mark in Europe and the USA ;-)

And yes, it will use the same prisms and prism housings as the 100mm

This was the only chance to keep the price low.

 

Sorry, no timeline yet...

 

Jochen

 

Well, if it is around the 4k mark, is optically at least equal to my Wellenform optimized APM and the false pupils don't get worse then count me in!  :grin:



#9 Tamiji Homma

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:09 AM

I always wonder that Markus can do collaboration project using Matsumoto-san's EMS.

 

Markus designs objective lens/OTA with EMS visual back.

 

I like rigidity (and possible weight reduction) of one unit binoculars housing instead of two refractors and EMS provides corrected 2" visual back to it.

 

I mean somewhat modular design binoculars by taking advantage of EMS.

 

Tammy



#10 GamesForOne

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:20 AM

I'm sure the collaboration with Matsumoto would be great, however Markus is also in the business of making a living. The resulting price of such a collaboration would likely be astronomical and the production volume would be low. I am sure Markus is somewhat at the mercy of what his suppliers will agree to produce.

 

---

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#11 StarBucket

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:20 AM

  1. What is the likelihood that the FPL53 "glass" will make the 120mm binos optically on par with the 100mm version?  
  2. Will the FPL53 solve the much discussed glare problem - even though slight - inherent in the 100mm version? 


#12 Mad Matt

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:43 AM

The problem with the EMS system is the IPD adjustment is not really intuitive... Basically the 90° APM's are EMS units with the reflecting surfaces being held in place by glass instead of aluminum  ;) The rhomboid prism are simply used to facilitate user friendly IPD adjustment. 


Edited by Mad Matt, 20 April 2016 - 11:45 AM.


#13 Mad Matt

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:52 AM

  • What is the likelihood that the FPL53 "glass" will make the 120mm binos optically on par with the 100mm version?  

I believe the chances are quite good. FPL53 much closer to Fluorite then the FK61. 

 

 

  • Will the FPL53 solve the much discussed glare problem - even though slight - inherent in the 100mm version? 

 

 

The glass itself has no effect but the faster focal ration FPL53 makes possible could actually make the problem worse.



#14 garret

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 12:00 PM

 

But with 24mm Panoptics you will get 2.6° of field at 26x magnification what is for sure very nice with 120mm aperture...

The true field of the 100mm APM ED is only 2.4 degree (and not 2.8 degree), because of the small prism.

This model should have 27mm clear aperture prism.

 

2x 120mm = 1x 170mm :)

 



#15 GamesForOne

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 12:19 PM

[...]

2x 120mm = 1x 170mm :)

 

 

In objective area, yes, but not in effective area. Binocular summation is not linear with combined objective area. The generally accepted value is 2^(1/4) = 1.19.

 

2 x 120mm ~ 1 x 143mm

 

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Edited by GamesForOne, 20 April 2016 - 12:19 PM.


#16 garret

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:03 PM

2 x 120mm ~ 1 x 143mm

 

Read this topic: http://www.cloudynig...40mm-refractor/

and here: http://arieotte-bino...tion Factor.pdf

 

Garret


Edited by garret, 20 April 2016 - 01:06 PM.


#17 StarBucket

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:50 PM

 

  • What is the likelihood that the FPL53 "glass" will make the 120mm binos optically on par with the 100mm version?  

I believe the chances are quite good. FPL53 much closer to Fluorite then the FK61.  

 

 

 

Wohooo!   :bounce:



#18 StarBucket

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:53 PM

 

  • Will the FPL53 solve the much discussed glare problem - even though slight - inherent in the 100mm version? 

 

 

The glass itself has no effect but the faster focal ration FPL53 makes possible could actually make the problem worse.

 

Duh!    :bangbang:



#19 Mr. Bill

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 02:31 PM

Interested but cautious about false pupil issues....if prisms same as 100mm versions, I am really

wondering about the effect of larger aperture and steeper light cone on exit pupil and effective

aperture as well as drop off of field illumination off axis.

 

:question:


Edited by Mr. Bill, 20 April 2016 - 02:52 PM.


#20 edwincjones

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 02:44 PM

the refractor people say/use to say that there is a big difference in going from 4" to 5"

but not so much going from 5" to 6".

Is this true for binoculars also?

 

good to see a 5" option

 

edj



#21 Rich V.

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 05:13 PM

  • Will the FPL53 solve the much discussed glare problem - even though slight - inherent in the 100mm version?

The glass itself has no effect but the faster focal ration FPL53 makes possible could actually make the problem worse.

Duh! :bangbang:

FPL53 will certainly be a better glass option than the FK61 for the double whammy of greater aperture and faster focal ratio of the 120mm.

I can't see how it could be inferior.

I'd be more concerned about the lack of baffles between the prisms if they use the same design as the 100mm.

Rich

#22 range88

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 09:04 PM

Factory told me the focal length will be 660mm instead of 625mm,so still f5.5, a big brother of the 100ed. The weight will be in 8~9kg range.

#23 Prescott702

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 11:48 PM

Spotting scopes are over that focal ratio, many of them use fpl53 and i can tell by the pics they took, wich are more sensitive than visual, CA is not a problem.

#24 Mad Matt

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:03 AM

Factory told me the focal length will be 660mm instead of 625mm,so still f5.5, a big brother of the 100ed. The weight will be in 8~9kg range.


This would be great news. I believe using FPL53 at f5.5 should hopefully allow the design of the objective lenses to accomodate production tolerance variations a little better... but I am not an optical engineer. :)

#25 Mad Matt

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 05:59 AM

 

 

But with 24mm Panoptics you will get 2.6° of field at 26x magnification what is for sure very nice with 120mm aperture...

The true field of the 100mm APM ED is only 2.4 degree (and not 2.8 degree), because of the small prism.

This model should have 27mm clear aperture prism.

 

2x 120mm = 1x 170mm :)

 

 

 

Actually, a 24mm TV Panoptic has a 27mm field stop. Using the formula Field Stop / Focal Length will give you the true field in Radiants. This is them multiplied by 57.3 (1° = 57.2958 Radians) to get the real FOV in degrees. 27/550*57.3=2.81°

 

The FOV for the different focal lengths mentioned in this thread are:

 

100/550 = 2.81°

120/625 = 2.48°

120/660 = 2.34°

 

In my opinion even 2.34° is still wide enough to have fun in the summer milky way. :-)




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