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APM 120mm ED APO binoculars

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#51 garret

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 08:12 AM

 

Looks like Markus has officially released the specs and info on the 120's.

 

The 120 mm Version will use the same rear part as the 100 mm Version.

= small prism and reflections  :bawling:



#52 Mr. Bill

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 09:29 AM

OTOH.....if the same prisms used on the 100mm APOs are used on 80mm APOs..... :blush:


Edited by Mr. Bill, 22 April 2016 - 09:30 AM.


#53 Mad Matt

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:28 AM

OTOH.....if the same prisms used on the 100mm APOs are used on 80mm APOs..... :blush:

 

 

IIRC the aperture is not relevant, it is the focal ratio. An 80 f5.5 with the same prism setup would still have the problem. An 80/500 (f6.25) would probably have it to a much lesser extent. 



#54 nicknacknock

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:34 AM

A 80mm with 500mm fl would be a sublime instrument....

#55 Mr. Bill

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:58 AM

A 80mm with 500mm fl would be a sublime instrument....

 

An f ratio of 6.5 (520mm fl) would be even better.....



#56 nicknacknock

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 11:10 AM

What's 20mm between friends? F6.5 it is!  :grin:



#57 Pinac

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 11:38 AM

A 80mm with 500mm fl would be a sublime instrument....

 

Is n't that the size the Docter is ?



#58 nicknacknock

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 11:52 AM

Yup, but I'll take interchangeable eyepieces and 90 degrees over the Docter. 



#59 Mr. Bill

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:11 PM

If price points scale, $1500 USD would seem reasonable for an 80mm version.

 

Also, f/6+ would allow a bit more relaxed CA requirement for objective glass.

 

IMO, not a lot to be gained acquiring an 120mm version of the APM APOs, especially for those of us with 100mm Lunt/APM.

 

Obviously, a bit more exit pupil at the same magnification at the cost of more weight with the 120mm.

 

I'll seriously consider buying 80mm version with 90 degree oculars for travel.


Edited by Mr. Bill, 22 April 2016 - 12:14 PM.


#60 mikenoname

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:32 PM

OTOH.....if the same prisms used on the 100mm APOs are used on 80mm APOs..... :blush:

 

But isn't this inverse aperture fever? And if so, and this is actually unleashed on the space-time continuum, won't it cause a galactic implosion???



#61 Mr. Bill

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:35 PM

 

OTOH.....if the same prisms used on the 100mm APOs are used on 80mm APOs..... :blush:

 

But isn't this inverse aperture fever? And if so, and this is actually unleashed on the space-time continuum, won't it cause a galactic implosion???

 

 

You'll never feel a thing..... :lol:



#62 Skittersqueek

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 02:49 PM

So again the real question: what are the gains going from the apm 100mm to the 120mm?  Is the jump in aperture going to be that much more noticeable as to warrant getting? Is the glass that much better? I know it would probably help in higher magnification scenarios keeping the object a tad brighter but I don't have enough experience with that size binocular to make an educated guess. I know I am repeating myself in this thread but I know a lot of curious folks out there who aren't as technical and math savvy as you guys  :p .

 

 

 

Another thing I could just wait til someone does a side by side comparison, but that requires patience and we all know that is not something a lot of us have when it comes to space toys. 



#63 Mr. Bill

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 02:57 PM

So again the real question: what are the gains going from the apm 100mm to the 120mm?  Is the jump in aperture going to be that much more noticeable as to warrant getting? Is the glass that much better? I know it would probably help in higher magnification scenarios keeping the object a tad brighter but I don't have enough experience with that size binocular to make an educated guess. I know I am repeating myself in this thread but I know a lot of curious folks out there who aren't as technical and math savvy as you guys  :p .

 

 

 

Another thing I could just wait til someone does a side by side comparison, but that requires patience and we all know that is not something a lot of us have when it comes to space toys. 

 

Higher theoretical resolution but I would never push the power high enough to see a difference.

 

Slightly brighter images at same magnification.

 

Downside is more weight and bigger form factor for 120mm which translates in a more robust mount/tripod needed for same stability.

 

IMO 120mm not worth the negatives including additional cost.


Edited by Mr. Bill, 22 April 2016 - 03:00 PM.


#64 Skittersqueek

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 03:02 PM

Do you think it will need something bigger than the binoptic II and monfrotto 161? if that is the case then I think i will stay with the 100mm. Now just to play the waiting game for them to come out and someone to post a review who has both  :grin: .



#65 Mr. Bill

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 03:13 PM

Maybe good chance two owners at a star party could do side by side.

You really need deep pockets to buy both just to find out.

#66 Mr. Bill

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 04:18 PM

Another thing I would say about noticeable differences between 100mm and 120mm....

IF you observe in very dark sky conditions (Bortle 1/2) the additional exit pupil at same

magnification would be useful; if you observe in typical moderate light pollution the

advantages of the 120mm's larger aperture will be minimized.

I know this from personal experience using my 100mm Lunt APO side by side with my 127mm f/5.5 BinoBox.


Edited by Mr. Bill, 22 April 2016 - 04:20 PM.


#67 Skittersqueek

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 06:25 PM

That was helpful, I do live in 4/4.5 but only a short drive away from 2 sky's. Most likely I will wait on reports and just be happy with my new instrument for the time being.


Aperture fever is real I'm finding out :p.

#68 junomike

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 06:41 PM

 

So again the real question: what are the gains going from the apm 100mm to the 120mm?  Is the jump in aperture going to be that much more noticeable as to warrant getting? Is the glass that much better? I know it would probably help in higher magnification scenarios keeping the object a tad brighter but I don't have enough experience with that size binocular to make an educated guess. I know I am repeating myself in this thread but I know a lot of curious folks out there who aren't as technical and math savvy as you guys  :p .

 

 

 

Another thing I could just wait til someone does a side by side comparison, but that requires patience and we all know that is not something a lot of us have when it comes to space toys. 

 

Higher theoretical resolution but I would never push the power high enough to see a difference.

 

Slightly brighter images at same magnification.

 

Downside is more weight and bigger form factor for 120mm which translates in a more robust mount/tripod needed for same stability.

 

IMO 120mm not worth the negatives including additional cost.

 

This is the deal-breaker for me as I my APM's almost always ride Piggyback on my NS11GPS....Something the 120's wouldn't be able to do.

 

Mike



#69 Prescott702

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 02:09 AM

The good thing is that the price compared with the 100 and other binos is very reasonable to me.

#70 Riccardo_italy

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 02:59 AM

I believe the 80mm is very important because:

- it can be considered the entry level into the APM binoscope line

- it can be considered the only one light and portable into the APM line

 

Entry scope: I'm sure Markus can build an 80mm achromat at a price lower than the Vixen BT-81 (made in Japan: higher labor cost) and the ED version at a price significantly lower than the Vixen equivalent, the 70mm ED, which costs almost as the APM 100 ED. Consider that: the achromat version costs half the ED version and that to move from 100ED to 120SD you have to add 1000€/$. An 80mm ED would cost significantly less than 2000$/€ and the achromat version significantly less than 1000$/€.

 

Travel scope. An 80mm can be used with a Manfrotto 190 tripod and using a mount like that:

 

http://shop.tecnosky...=TKelle&Score=1

 

If the weight of the scope is around 3kg (slightly more than the Miyauchi 77mm), this implies a total weight of the entire kit (binoscope + mount + tripod) of around 6kg. Perfect kit for travelling!



#71 Pinac

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 05:57 AM

As there are more informations about the new and upcoming APM 120mm APO binoculars available I think it is time to open a thread dedicated to this instrument.

 

As told before in another thread APM will make a 120mm version of his well known 100mm APO binoculars.

As the small version it will be available with 45° and 90° eyepiece holders and it will accept 1,25" eyepieces.

 

Sorry guys, no 2" eyepieces this time to keep size, weight and costs in a acceptable range.

But with 24mm Panoptics you will get 2.6° of field at 26x magnification what is for sure very nice with 120mm aperture...

 

The focal length will be 625mm so it will be faster than the 100mm version.

To get the same optical quality and color correction FPL53 glass will be used this time, instead of FK61 at the 100mm version

 

 

The tripod mount will be detachable, so one can install a center mount similar as it is available for the Kowa Highlander.

 

Here are two pictures of the new 120mm instrument.

I do not yet have the weight, but it is estimated to be around 10 KG (20 lbs)

 

 

 

binomania.it

 

http://www.binomania...ovo_apm_120_sd/

 

just reported a slightly different focal lenghth on the new APM 120 of 660mm, making it f/5.5

 

First units should hit the European market late August at a price of € 3'990.-

 

They also say a new 100mm version should come out for less than €1'500.-

 

Pinac


Edited by Pinac, 23 April 2016 - 06:01 AM.


#72 edwincjones

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 06:47 AM

..................................... if you observe in typical moderate light pollution the

advantages of the 120mm's larger aperture will be minimized....................

 

 

minimized-yes, but still present

 

it is what it is,

edj


Edited by edwincjones, 23 April 2016 - 06:49 AM.


#73 GlennLeDrew

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 11:51 AM

The false pupils might be reduced in extent by not insisting on a larger fully-illuminated field. I'd be happy with a zero-sized 'circle' of full illumination if the false pupils could thereby be made smaller. I've long advocated for visual instruments the perfectly acceptable state of full illumination at the field center only, as long as outer field fall-off is not too egregious or 'sharp.' An edge-of-field illumination of 50% is just fine; many commercial binos are of this order.



#74 Mr. Bill

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 12:09 PM

No false pupils with my BinoBox.....uses first surface mirrors instead of prisms. Also 70+% edge of field illumination.

 

OTOH, I've learned to live with the "fingernails" in my 100mm APOs which are outstanding in all other respects.


Edited by Mr. Bill, 23 April 2016 - 12:54 PM.


#75 Allardk

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 12:53 PM

No false pupils with my BinoBox.....uses first surface mirrors instead of prisms.

 

OTOH, I've learned to live with the "fingernails" in my 100mm APOs which are outstanding in all other respects.

 

So why don't you get rid of your APM's ?




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