128 replies to this topic

[APM M.Ludes]

as discussed already some month’s earlier APM is introducing a new 120 mm Apo Binocular, this time not a ED but a SD Version.
ED is the term for Chinese FK 61 or Ohara FPL 51
SD is the Term for FPL 52, FPL 53

the new SD Apo will use the glas combination FPL 53 plus lanthanum with 660 mm focal length, this result in a 120 mm F/5.5 doublet with at least the same good color correction as the actual 100 mm ED Apo Binoculars.
We will produce again 2 versions, a 120 mm 45 degree and 120 mm 90 degree Apo….but also the same as NON-ED Achromat’s.
The 120 mm Version will use the same rear part as the 100 mm Version. This time we include into mechanical design the possibility to mount the binocular with a 1 arm mount in the center of gravity
I will keep the group Posted about ongoing news

 

The retail price in Euro  will be Euro 3,990.00 include VAT

The retail price in USA will be US $ 3,990.00

 

each binocular will be checked in Germany and certified at Wellenform, this cost are includet.

Binoculars are to my knowledge tax/dutie free in USA , so on top of the prices comes only the shipping cost

 

estimated delivery time for first small run is August 2016

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by APM M.Ludes, 22 April 2016 - 05:42 AM.

[junomike]

Markus, I'm curious as to why the US price is the same as the Euro price?  I was was under the assumption that the 19% VAT gets deducted when purchased outside of the Euro countries?

Is this due to the conversion form Euro - USD?

 

Mike

Edited by junomike, 22 April 2016 - 06:21 AM.

[APM M.Ludes]

Hi Mike

 

several reasons :

 

a, the exchange ratio between Euro and $ is not fix , it changes daily, sometimes small, sometimes large

 

but you can order from our shop and pay in Euro as well, the outcome will be very similar

 

so in total , the prices are pretty the same

[denis0007dl]

Markus,

hope in 120 version there wont be fingernails in prisms aperture, like 100mm version have.

Also, what will be CA of prisms?

[StarBucket]

Markus,

 

These new 120ED binoculars of yours hit the sweet spot of all my combined selection criteria, with or without the finger nail problem.

 

Thank you for bringing these to the market.

 

Now, even though it won't be a deal breaker if it can't be done: what can you do to minimise the finger nail problem? 

[Riccardo_italy]

Hi Markus, do you plan to produce also an 80mm version? Will you use for that version ED / SD and or achromat glass?

 

If you are able to sell the 80mm version achromat at a price no higher than Vixen BT-81 (made in Japan, higher labor cost with respect to China) but in a more compact and light version (thanks to magnesium), I may be very interested.

 

Thanks

 

Riccardo

Edited by Riccardo_italy, 22 April 2016 - 12:32 PM.

[junomike]

Hi Mike

 

several reasons :

 

a, the exchange ratio between Euro and $ is not fix , it changes daily, sometimes small, sometimes large

 

but you can order from our shop and pay in Euro as well, the outcome will be very similar

 

so in total , the prices are pretty the same

Fair enough Markus.

 

Mike

[mogur]

At current exchange rates the USA price should be closer to $3600 plus shipping.

[APM M.Ludes]

Hi Mogur

 

3990 : 1.19 ( VAT ) x 1.124 rate = US $ 3,768 + 4 % for paypal or Creditcard ( europeans pay by fee free Iban transfer) = $ 3,919.00

 

risk charge due international shipments ( in case of a expensive return problem) and we are at 3,990 $

[APM M.Ludes]

Hi Denis

 

what do you mean with CA of prisms ? The optical set is zemax matched, prisms includet the design, so I have no idea what you talking about , sorry

 

regards Fingernail : as you all noticed, the rear tube part is same as for the 100 mm model to keep the cost down, so the finger nail will be same as in 100 mm

 

Fingernail ??? Well till the very first started to talk about it, it was never a problem for anybody before. I use it myself with larger 25 mm field stop and larger finger nail and it does not bother me at all.

many who started to speak negative about the finger nail after it came up, settled down and report now , it does not bother them  anymore

 

I have finge rnail in many other binoculars, include superexpensive , nobody talk about that, nobody complain about this.

 

So customers who have a problem , I can only advise not to buy it.

 

we will not invest another tenthousands of $ to rework everything to make 0.01 % customers happy and 50 % of this 0.01 % customers are not buying such product anyway, they are those customers who hear something and like to hear here voice on the forums very much.

 

what we do and this new design allow that is to care on a good mounting solution which is 100 x more important than finger nail

 

sorry if this clear words bother somebody

[denis0007dl]

Markus, CA is Clear Aperture of prisms!

[APM M.Ludes]

what do you want ? 25 , 24,,3,22,21,20 ?

[APM M.Ludes]

also I forgot to mention the 100 mm version will come out also end of May as achromat, both in 45 degree and 90 degree

 

Price is not fixed yet, but estimate if 1500 $

 

 

a 80 mm apo and non apo comes a bit later

[Riccardo_italy]

Markus, it's very very promising. If you are able to keep costs down for the 80mm achromat, well I'm really looking forward for it. How long for it and do you have a rough idea about price?

 

Best

 

Riccardo

[APM M.Ludes]

nothing is done for the 80 mm yes, accept the idea to make it, you need to wait a bit, ok ?

 

for the 120 mm, estimated weight is less then 22 lbs and it will work perfect on the binoptik fork mount, but due the new design we will offer also a single arm forkmount

[StarBucket]

Will you discontinue the 100mm version?

[denis0007dl]

I am sure most of observers want at least 27mm clear aperture of prisms, so Pans 24mm and ES 24mm 68 deg wont vignette.

Do you agree guys?

[junomike]

I am sure most of observers want at least 27mm clear aperture of prisms, so Pans 24mm and ES 24mm 68 deg wont vignette.

Do you agree guys?

Absolutely!  Even 26mm would be ok.

 

Mike

[range88]

I am sure most of observers want at least 27mm clear aperture of prisms, so Pans 24mm and ES 24mm 68 deg wont vignette.

Do you agree guys?

Any enlargement of the clear aperture means reworking of the rear part, which is not possible except spending tens of thousands of $.

[EFT]

Markus,

 

I don't know of any kind of duty exemption for binoculars vs. telescopes.  In general, if the retail value is over $2500 then 8% duty can be charged.  That does not always mean it will be charged but most international carriers like DHL and FedEx will make you pay the duty before delivery as well as a brokerage fee.

[APM M.Ludes]

the 100 mm ED Apo continue and we add now also 100 mm NON Ed Models > Achromats 45 degree for $ 1,495 and 90 degree for $ 1,595...first samples come in June, using the same mechanics as the Apo.

 

25 mm field stop do not vignet Panoptic 24 , so this works

 

ED > Binoculars are at any value duty free , even by UPS https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=9005 ... 8% you pay for telescopes

[Howie Glatter]

> Binoculars are at any value duty free , even by UPS https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=9005 ... 8% you pay for telescopes

 

Save by shipping two telescopes at a time rubber-banded together.

[trener]

the new SD Apo will use the glas combination FPL 53 plus lanthanum with 660 mm focal length, this result in a 120 mm F/5.5 doublet with at least the same good color correction as the actual 100 mm ED Apo Binoculars.

 

Markus,

What about other aberrations, mainly Spherical aberration? 120mm @ F/5/5 doublet is going to have more spherical aberration than the 100 mm model, am I right? And what max magnification is going to be guaranteed?

Edited by trener, 23 April 2016 - 07:14 AM.

[junomike]

> Binoculars are at any value duty free , even by UPS https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=9005 ... 8% you pay for telescopes

 

Save by shipping two telescopes at a time rubber-banded together.

 

Mike

[APM M.Ludes]

Hi Trener

 

what I can tell you right now is that the spherical aberration is better corrected than on big binoculars made in Japan, much better corrected.

Find a chinese doublet ED Apo Refractor with F/5.5 and tell me how good it is corrected.

The 120 mm will have the same good correction as the 100 mm, which is good but not perfect like a Takahashi or Zeiss, or TEc etc.

 

What counts more is the collimation and optical adjustment of all elements and thats what we check and controle and guaranted with Wellenform on each single unit.

 

I am travelling in June with a optical expert to Union Optics to check with them what they do and teach them to do it better, becuase when the sales volume going up more and more, Wellenform cannot handle anymore every bino, or he must extend his business , so we want that our supplier get better, thats why we visit them and teach them.

 

Regards magnification, we will do again a standart offer and for extra money a higher power offer , because w estill talking about a big binocular.

 

Nobody asked from the Myauchi 141 for $ 15,000 that it handle 100 power or more , it was sold with 45 x maimum power and everybody was happy, becuase it is a big Binocular.

 

We produce not a big Twin Binocular telescope like Binoptic does with highest quality optics for very high power , we produce a moderate binocular with interchangable eyepieces, the possibility to use filters and get low to medium power.

 

If you want a 120 mm Bino which can handle all the time 250 or more power than you may better buy a Binoptic

 

I will not say, that 250 is not possible, but it will be very dificult and maybe not possible in all units, at least not without extra tuning for more money

 

Many cars are build with speed limit as standart. For extra money car makers offer tuning for higher speed, we do the same with this binoculars

 

Please note they are not handmade 1 by 1 , they are a kind of big serial production , made in China  with all the limits for a good price