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Comments on Orion's new ED-X2 refractors?

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#26 orlyandico

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Posted 01 May 2016 - 11:56 PM

If it's a double-ED, the design must be similar to the redesigned TOA-130, although the TOA has double FPL53 elements. Obviously it's going to be better than a triplet with a single ED element.

 

But for $3500!

 

I do think that the TSA-102/TSA-120 are not double-ED designs so probably not directly comparable.

 

It's also interesting to note that the AP scopes are not double-ED either, so you don't need 2 ED elements to have a true apochromatic triplet.  But there are many reports that the TOA-130 double-ED is better-corrected than the AP130GT. Whether that is measurable in the real world or not, I don't know.


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#27 Illinois

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 06:25 AM

That is expensive and for me is to buy TeleVue 85 or 101mm !


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#28 dc_robert

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:16 PM

I gotta believe at least one of these new scopes is in the hands of a professional reviewer by now.  Guess we'll have to wait for their impressions to hit the press since there's no one crazy enough to actually buy one of these things.

 

Unless they decide to grace us with a sneak preview :)   :praying:


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#29 Sard

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:19 PM

I can't speak to the optics, but I was in the Orion store in the South Bay this week and they had one of each size sitting out.  The black tube with red highlights is gorgeous.


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#30 Agatha

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:31 AM

 

Oh I clicked on the send first born button. I figured with the money I save on food, phone, heat, light, gas, car insurance I was on a winner. The scope would feel like it was free.

 

 

 

:question:           Did you?    

 

Or am I totally misreading your comment?

 

 

(I'm hoping that you did).    



#31 Pauls72

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:36 AM

I haven't seen any reviews on the PrimaLuceLab version either.

If someone wants to send me one or even both, I'll be glad to try them out and review it. :watching: 



#32 Pauls72

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 10:05 AM

I discussed these new scopes with one of my friends last night. What we where wondering is: Normally your views are limited by the weakest link in your optical train. Since the FPL-51 glass is not as good as the FPL-53 glass, wouldn't this combination of the two degrade the image quality slightly over just using FPL-53 glass?


Edited by Pauls72, 04 May 2016 - 10:17 AM.


#33 jrbarnett

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 10:29 AM

These same Long Perng designs are sold in Europe under the Primaluce Labs brand.  They are not quite as expensive in that market (2750 Euros vs. $3500).

 

http://www.primaluce...-refractor.html

 

Here is a sample images taken with this optic in Orion livery:

 

https://www.facebook...?type=3

 

Here are some great detail images of the OTA in Primaluce Labs livery:

 

http://www.365astron...-Telescope.html

 

This is really an astrograph design.  I think it compares more to the FSQ series than the TOA series in role and conception.  A 106mm New Q runs about $5100 by comparison.

 

Regards,

 

Jim



#34 jrbarnett

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 10:36 AM

I discussed these new scopes with one of my friends last night. What we where wondering is: Normally your views are limited by the weakest link in your optical train. Since the FPL-51 glass is not as good as the FPL-53 glass, wouldn't this combination of the two degrade the image quality slightly over just using FPL-53 glass?

FPL-51 and FPL-53 come in different quality levels.  

 

You can buy FPL-51 that is of higher quality than FPL-53 (i.e., with greater homogeneity, fewer bubbles, occlusions and striae, etc.).  

 

Each glass type has different refractive and other properties, but none are inherently "better" than the any other.  It all depends on the entire design, including radii of curvature, other glass types for mating elements, spacing, etc., as to whether FPL-53 is a better materials choice than any other glass, including FPL-51.

 

Never make your buying decision based on the glass type of a single element in a system alone.  It's very possible to make design choices using FPL-53 that result in an inferior scope, including in color correction, than a design using another glass type like FPL-51.

 

Regards,

 

Jim 


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#35 Hesiod

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Posted 04 May 2016 - 11:19 AM

Cloning the complex TOAs seems to me a tricky proposition (Takahashi engineers themselves developed the TSAs); since these seem mainly astrographs, maybe their source got some kind of design for telephoto lenses (which I think employ or employed such "goulasch" of glasses more frequently than telescopes) and revamped it for the digital sensors.

And color correction is only a parameter, which tells nothing about the accuracy of shaping/polishing, or the tolerances allowed for the cell (I assume that a good cell for a f/6 triplet it is not a joke...)

 

In any case, here there is an amatorial review

http://www.primaluce...fractor-review/

 

The author seems very happy with it, and from my humble perspective he got good DSOs pics (chek his astrobin), but the Moon looks too soft (anyway it can be only a consequence of how he decided to process the image)


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#36 AJT12

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 08:21 PM

Orion is now out of stock on the 104mm version. Wondering if anyone on here purchased one? I am particularly curious about the quality of the focuser. Can it really handle 17.6 pounds?



#37 Pauls72

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 12:19 PM

Has anyone here ever gotten one of these or looked through one?

Kind of surprised not to have ever seen a first light report by anyone.



#38 Gabby76

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 05:02 PM

Even astroshop has it for 1000 Euro less than Orion.

http://www.astroshop...attener/p,47785



#39 Ac2aj

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 10:15 AM

So 104mm for 3500.00 when I can get an ES ED152 for 3999.00.It is a no brainer.Orion overpriced these by a lot.After they don't sell you will see a price drop.

Edited by Ac2aj, 09 December 2016 - 11:39 AM.


#40 Hesiod

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 10:23 AM

Different tools for different jobs...the 104 looks mainly an astrograph, and these are usually very expensive if decent aperture and very fast f/ is wanted.

I can not say am interested, nor that these seems to me a good marketing choiche (have the feeling that "top" imagers still will go for "top" stuff), but am not a telescope maker either



#41 CounterWeight

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 11:58 AM

What I would be interested to see is how these do with lens flare / light scatter near bright stars in images.  I know that was a huge advantage of the Tak 85 quad.  It is there but minimal compared to the other small scopes I used.  The glass type to the focal ratio and all that, but then how well the final figure and polish, coatings?  Another consideration is a factory mated focal reducer taking it down into the high 4's maybe?.., f/6.25 or f/6.6 is not slow but it also not very fast.  To me it is a bit odd in it's position as an imaging scope for the money they are asking, and I wish they'd post more information or at least images to compare on at least 1 or 2 difficult objects like the horsehead or the jellyfish.

 

I've been waiting too to read any user reports on this optic, what for the performance is like compared to other premium brands in the aperture and price bracket.



#42 vaskies

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 09:51 AM

Does Orion have a history of dropping prices on products? I don't know. I got the latest Orion catalog and they're still priced the same. Honestly, I don't know what a legitimate price would be for those, but I'd suspect they'd have to shave off $1k or more to make me interested (if at all).



#43 rmollise

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 11:27 AM

Does Orion have a history of dropping prices on products? I don't know. I got the latest Orion catalog and they're still priced the same. Honestly, I don't know what a legitimate price would be for those, but I'd suspect they'd have to shave off $1k or more to make me interested (if at all).

 

They do have sales. But the same gear from another source will almost always be cheaper without the Orion badge. Orion has a history of good customer support (I don't know if that is still the case these days; I haven't had any experience with that part of their business since the Tim Giesler days), and there are those pretty color catalogs--both those things cost money. ;)

 

The main complaints I have with them are their sometimes outrageous shipping charges (five bucks to ship a finder mount shoe? C'mon!) and the fact that they will only support their products as long as they are owned by the original purchaser. I'm not talking about non-transferrable warranties; they won't let you BUY a part unless you are the original owner. ;)


Edited by rmollise, 10 December 2016 - 11:28 AM.


#44 Hesiod

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 11:42 AM

There are some pictures taken with the PrimaLuceLab branded model

 

http://www.astrobin....4&camera_type=5



#45 AstroSteve

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 12:18 PM

I would by a Stellarvue SVQ100-3SV over those 2 Orion Scopes and I really like Orion.  For that kind of money it for me just makes more sense. 



#46 coopman

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Posted 10 December 2016 - 12:40 PM

You could get a Tak for that kind of money.

#47 orlyandico

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 05:17 AM

According to the Primaluce review there is a dedicated external flattener. So it does not compare with the FSQ106 or SVQ100 (i.e. it is not a quadruplet which is natively flat).



#48 rodb

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 08:11 AM

$2,700

$3,500

 

It says it's a triplet, with two ED glass elements.

These are faster than their current ED 80mm that is an f/7.5, same as the scope I have the C80ED, a doublet. I'm guessing the shorter FL needs more attention to CA and SA. Probably a wider corrected field for imaging.

 

Sounds good, looks great, but way out of my league. (I'd rather have the Tak 102 if given the choice.)

Maybe one of the optics boys can give a comment on the two ED glass elements.

They are on the web page under 'New Products.'

I'd bought (and very briefly owned) the 104mm - paid full price $2800 about a month ago. That included rings and dovetail. (The EON 85 is $1800.) So I don't know where the $3500 comes from.

 

I didn't get a chance to use it at night, but observed the sun with objective filter (of course), a few sunspots visible in shimmering poor seeing, and terrestrially from my balcony, using the Pan 35. The optics seemed razor sharp, especially in viewing buildings and such a block or two away - not that that's an ultimately suitable test. (Btw, love that Pan 35 - the most comfortable EP I've used.)

 

I returned the 104mm, not because of anything wrong with optics or fit and finish, but I thought it too heavy and clunky for its aperture - 14.6# + 2" diag, EP, 9x50 RACI all add up quickly to about 18#, and with mount - total = 32-33#. More than I wanted for a quick grab n go. Not easy for me to slip it on and off the mount (Orion StarSeeker goto). This is not to knock the product, just wasn't for me. And while the black and red seems so cool, that also ended up being not to my taste, as the fully mounted scope will be a permanent resident in my living room, right next to the balcony sliding glass door.

 

So I went in an entirely different direction and ordered the TV 85mm, with Vixen Porta Mount II Tall+ - total weight with all accessories about 24-25#. I realize, of course, that the 85 won't show quite as much as an 104mm, but the extra portability for my purposes wins the day. My observing is in Grey, city/suburban very LPd skies. And, from all reports, pro and users here, the TV 85 gets great reviews. So I'm looking forward to getting it in the next week or two, so Company Seven says, where I ordered it (and all stuff).

 

Rod



#49 rodb

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 08:25 AM

I'd bought (and very briefly owned) the 104mm - paid full price $2800 about a month ago. That included rings and dovetail. (The EON 85 is $1800.) So I don't know where the $3500 comes from.

 

When I just posted that, I didn't realize the thread was from 2016. So the price has dropped a lot.



#50 gustavo_sanchez

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 08:26 PM

So researching a bit about these scopes that look like nobody owns them, I found this thread... They seem to have dropped their price A LOT. Why still no takers?


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