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APM-LXY Binoscope under construction…

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#1 range88

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 08:46 AM

I am planning to make a 5' apo binoscope all-rounder.
The material collecting era nearly comes to an end.
I'll keep updating...

Scopes: APM-LXY 123 F6 Apo
Butt: EMS ULS
Eyepiece: Ethos 8 13 17
Clamps: CNC
Head: Cartoni Focus 22
Tripod: Gitzo 5542LS with really long geared column

The pic is for illustration only, nothing has been built.
IMG_2519.JPG

Edited by range88, 09 May 2016 - 07:54 PM.


#2 GlennLeDrew

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 10:36 AM

I take it you'll be suffering cantilevering when the instrument is aimed at a higher angle, due to the mass offset from the elevation axis. Why not make a fork?



#3 range88

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 05:47 PM

I take it you'll be suffering cantilevering when the instrument is aimed at a higher angle, due to the mass offset from the elevation axis. Why not make a fork?

There won't be any problem even at -90°, these heads have counterbalance mechanism designed for offsetting different torque at different angles built in. That' s the reason why they are expensive.

Forks are just too big and heavy for my taste, and like any other friction heads, short of the fluid sensation.
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#4 range88

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 09:00 PM

I feel there seems to be a general ignorance upon fluid head and what they can do in astronomy.

 

A professional fluid head usually has 3 settings, namely 2 drag settings and 1 counterbalance setting. Drag is for the adjustment of movement tension, and counterbalance is for compensating the torque equipment may produce. A good counterbalance mechanism works independently, thus wherever the drag settings are at, it will always hold the load within its tilt range.

 

Some heads have +-90° tilt range, e.g., Ronford Baker, Oconnor, some Cartoni and Vinten, while some have +90°/-75°, e.g., Sachtler. In binoscope secarios, my advice is always looking for the +-90° models.

 

Some heads have continuously adjustable counterbalance settings, e.g., Ronford Baker, Oconnor, some Cartoni and Vinten, while some have stepped counterbalance settings, e.g, Sachtler and Miller .In binoscope secarios, my advice is always looking for the continuously adjustable models.

 

Every prof. fluid head should be accompanied with a counterbalance chart, this is of paramount importance when choosing an appropriate head. Take the Cartoni Focus 22 for example:

 

QQ图片20160508093104.png

 

The horizontal axis is the payload and the vertical is the equipment center of gravity above the head. As you can see, the maximum payload capacity decreases while the center of gravity increases due to  greater torque high gravity equipment generates. But as far as your equipment is within the red area, it will perform perfectly well and hold in the whole +-90° tilt range. In my case, I estimate my 123 binoscope's center of gravity at 125mm above the head, that means the head will support from 2.5kg to nearly 20kg. 

 

According to my experience, fluid heads are best for non-tracking binoculars or binoscopes. There are mainly 3 reasons:

1. Compactness. They usually weighs for a few kilos and not much bigger than a 15cm diameter ball. You can always leave them on the tripod and take them everywhere without worrying about bumping into anything.

2. Versatile. You can put anything with a 1/4 or 3/8 threads on it, e.g., video cameras, DSLRs.

3. Fluidness. The adjustable fluid controls are extremely smooth and easy to operate. You can always adjust the tension according to your lens focal length, i.e., the higher the magnification, the stiffer the drag. That mechanism dampens out a lot of vibration at the expense of movement speed.

 

But good high payload fluid head are expensive, their prices rocket while the maximum payload build up. Finally it's up to everyone to choose what they prioritize. 


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#5 range88

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 02:46 AM

First version of the clamps.

Gonna use stainless steel as the joints.

The central column is to serve as a handle and if needed, to add sliding weights on.

Any suggestion is welcomed.

 

untitled.182.jpg


Edited by range88, 09 May 2016 - 08:56 AM.

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#6 range88

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 08:48 AM

Just general thoughts

 

QQ图片20160509213145.png QQ图片20160509213204.png QQ图片20160509213218.png



#7 Tucker512

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 04:02 PM

Those are some cool looking rings!  Does there need to be any adjustment for aligning the two optical systems?  What will go behind the scopes for adjusting the interpupillary distance?  Good info on the fluid heads, I learned something!

 

Scott



#8 range88

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 12:22 AM

Those are some cool looking rings! Does there need to be any adjustment for aligning the two optical systems? What will go behind the scopes for adjusting the interpupillary distance? Good info on the fluid heads, I learned something!

Scott


Thanks Scott.
Precise adjustment will be done by EMS with 2 screws. IPD will be covered by the helicoid focuser on the EMS, in mycase a 60~74 range.

#9 garret

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 11:04 AM

Instead of a very expensive videohead with high load capacity, I use a counterweight on my low cost videohead to increase the load capacity.

The telescope is in balance at any angle, no matter drag and counterweight setting on the video-head, only depending on which eyepiece I use, then I adjust the drag or counterweight setting, the movement is also very light/ smooth.

 

Garret van der Veen, Holland

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  • apm-op-zuil.jpg

Edited by garret, 11 May 2016 - 11:37 AM.

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#10 Tucker512

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 04:02 PM

I had not seen the EMS units before, I had to look them up.  They are very clever!



#11 range88

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 08:45 PM

I had not seen the EMS units before, I had to look them up. They are very clever!

Mr. Matsumoto has a website. You can take a look, they are really excellent products.
http://ems-bino.com

Edited by range88, 11 May 2016 - 08:46 PM.


#12 range88

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 08:51 PM

Instead of a very expensive videohead with high load capacity, I use a counterweight on my low cost videohead to increase the load capacity.
The telescope is in balance at any angle, no matter drag and counterweight setting on the video-head, only depending on which eyepiece I use, then I adjust the drag or counterweight setting, the movement is also very light/ smooth.

Garret van der Veen, Holland


Yes Garret, that saves quite a lot of money. I just don't like the idea of dragging 2 counterweights around and dealing with added form factor. In this sense, it's not too different from a U mount, though it does have fluid movement instead of dry friction.

Range

#13 Rusted

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 07:24 AM

 

I had not seen the EMS units before, I had to look them up. They are very clever!

Mr. Matsumoto has a website. You can take a look, they are really excellent products.
http://ems-bino.com

 

 

Forgive my ignorance but how do Mr Matsumoto's prisms differ [except perhaps cosmetically] from using two pairs of 2" 45 degree [terrestrial] prisms?

 

Can one make a decent pair of dual telescope-binos using standard 90 degree, 2" star diagonal prisms?

 

A simple experiment with nested star diagonals shows that relative movement does not alter the orientation of the image.



#14 range88

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 08:04 AM

 

 

I had not seen the EMS units before, I had to look them up. They are very clever!

Mr. Matsumoto has a website. You can take a look, they are really excellent products.
http://ems-bino.com

 

 

Forgive my ignorance but how do Mr Matsumoto's prisms differ [except perhaps cosmetically] from using two pairs of 2" 45 degree [terrestrial] prisms?

 

Can one make a decent pair of dual telescope-binos using standard 90 degree, 2" star diagonal prisms?

 

A simple experiment with nested star diagonals shows that relative movement does not alter the orientation of the image.

 

 

The EMS system uses mirrors instead of prisms.

You need 3 instead of 2 90° star diagonals and the image will be reversed horizontally.


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#15 range88

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 10:40 AM

Found these at a local swap meet for $10...a pair of excellent quality Nikon 1-1/4 inch microscope prismatic eyepiece holders.  They work perfectly for my IPD adjustment on my homemade dual 102mm f/6 GOTO Celestron Binoscope.....See photo images

 

Klitwo

 

That's a good and easy setup for terrestrial view I think.

But not very suitable for celestial use, that'll be a torture when looking at zenith.



#16 range88

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 09:04 AM

Got the 75mm to 65mm adapter ring, the EMS system finally connects. 

This is just the temporary adapter to calculate the travel distances. I intend to leave 15mm out when E17 focuses at infinity.

 

IMG_2700.JPG IMG_2702.JPG


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#17 range88

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 10:52 PM

Diagonal accuarcy comparsion:

 

Equipment: APM-LXY 123 + Matsumoto EMS, Denkmeire 2' dielectric diagnal , LXY 2' dielectric diagnal, United Optics 2' erecting prism diagonal + Sony Nex 5n

 

This is not a scientific test, but still confirms the Matsumoto EMS is at least as good as other dielectric diagnal on the market. I don't have TV, Baader, AP or other premium diagonal at hand, but I think the result won't vary too much.

 

Left to right, up to down: 

Matsumoto EMS / Denkmeire 2' dielectric diagnal

LXY 2' dielectric diagnal / United Optics 2' erecting prism diagonal

 

Center performance:

比较2.jpg


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#18 range88

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Posted 22 May 2016 - 10:57 PM

Edge performance:

 

Note: As you can see the Denk is out of the league regarding edge performance. This is not normal, I highly suspect that's a quality inconsistency.

 

比较1.jpg



#19 Tucker512

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:14 PM

It seems to me the main advantage of the EMS system is that it lets you tip/tilt the mirrors to align the two optical systems.  Otherwise you would need adjustments on the OTA mounting rings to align them perfectly.

 

Scott



#20 range88

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 06:21 PM

It seems to me the main advantage of the EMS system is that it lets you tip/tilt the mirrors to align the two optical systems. Otherwise you would need adjustments on the OTA mounting rings to align them perfectly.

Scott

Yes, alignment is intuiveand quick. But you still need to keep the barrels generally parallel, otherwise the adjustment range won't be enough.

#21 Mark9473

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 05:27 PM

Great project you have going on there.

I take it LXY = LZOS in some other language?

Did you make the clamps yourself, or are they a commercial product?



#22 range88

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 06:22 PM

Great project you have going on there.
I take it LXY = LZOS in some other language?
Did you make the clamps yourself, or are they a commercial product?


LXY = Liu Xiao Yi,who made the fabulous tube and assembled the scope. The tube is AP style fully baffled white powder painted and quite slim at only 147mm for dew shield. It is also bino friendly, 580mm in length, I don't need to cut off anything for this binoscope to work. OTA w/o clamp is 6.4kg.

The clamp is designed by a local binoscope studio and me, and will be executed at a CNC factory.
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#23 range88

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 11:01 PM

Here comes a small luxury, yes, they are up to Starlight standard.

Very shiny.

 

IMG_2771.JPG



#24 range88

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:46 AM

The general principle in ocular selection is to maximize afov, and if possible, fov.

Here is the table of eyepieces selected, mainly from Ethos line and a pair of UO 30mm 70° for low power sweeping.

I am considering what to use for planetary, I'd like also to have one with 2' sleeves. Ethos 3.7 looks promising, but 200x is a little bit too low for the scopes, 3mm is ideal. But I don't want to use 1.25 format.

 

QQ图片20160602210004.png

 

QQ图片20160602222410_副本.jpg


Edited by range88, 02 June 2016 - 09:48 AM.


#25 range88

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Posted 26 June 2016 - 07:45 AM

Finished today!

I'll post some pics first, will report back if I have time...

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  • QQ图片20160626203212.jpg

Edited by range88, 26 June 2016 - 07:52 AM.

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