41 replies to this topic

[SkyCruzr]

Last winter my wife and I were kind of bored and learned of this 247 out in western Colorado. I swapped a few emails with the seller and we reached a deal. So we fired up the truck and away we went. This scope really is in pretty good shape for being 40 years old and still throws up some real nice views. Pardon the dust, I snapped these just before I boxed it up to bring it home.

 

 

 

Fast forward to last weekend, my wife was visiting an old colleague and her husband. She got to telling them how I was re-doing some old scopes and shared a few pics. Later that weekend, her friend pulled her aside and asked if I had something special restored that she could purchase for her husbands next birthday. He has recently gotten into astronomy and is using an old Tasco table top reflector he's had forever. He has also had to deal with some health stuff here in the last year before he retires. I've met them both and they are real good folks. So I thought about it a while and sent the pics of this Selsi. She fell in love with it and wants it! I've got my nice C80 and a 339 project laying in the wings, so the Selsi will be going to a good home and an appreciative new owner. Before we even talked about the cost, her friend threw out a dollar range that was too hard to ignore. Sooooo, this is my next project. The plan is to rehab the mount. Refinish the tripod legs and hardware. Repaint the OTA, lens cell, dewshield, and the finder. Some minor interior box repairs, new felt, and refinish the outside.

 

With any project there are always some questions, and thus far I haven't been able to find the answers on CN anywhere....

 

1) Does anyone have a pic of one of these packed into the box? Try as I might, I can't seem to figure out this puzzle. I've searched ebay and here for pics to no avail.

2) Will the Vixen adapter work on this scope? I only have two of the original EPs and it would be nice to be able to use modern EPs in it.

3) The mount had a bit of slop where the mount attaches to the mount base. I found a VERY distorted fiber washer there that has to be the problem. Couldn't I just make a milk jug washer to replace it? The original washer wasn't very thick at all.

 

Thanks in advance for the help on this project. The folks here in classics are the best!  I'll be taking plenty of pics and posting up the progress once this project really gets going.

[CharlieB]

1.  Can't help you there.

2.  If it has a single draw tube (which looks to be true), the the Vixen adapter should work OK.

3.  There needs to be one of those washers on each side on the inside part of the mount (I've seen many photos that show them incorrectly on the out side part of that mount.  A milk jug washer may work, but I doubt it has enough friction to hold the latitude adjustment in place.  You can get similar material at an auto parts store that's used for gaskets.

 

That's going to be a great scope.  An 80/910 gives a nice, wider view with acceptable CA.  The mount may be up to the task, but you can never overmount these scopes.

 

Charlie

[Kasmos]

Looks too nice to repaint. As many say, they are only original once. I'd just clean it up and maybe do some touch ups if some of the scratches are really bothering you.

[SkyCruzr]

CharlieB thanks for the gasket material idea. I hadn't thought of that. We are off to the big city today for a Costco run, I'll stop by an auto parts and pick up some gasket material.  I had this riding on a Vixen Polaris mount for a while. That worked quite nicely.

 

Kasmos, it does look better in the pics than in real life. The OTA has many scratches in the paint and touch-ups would take away from it. I agree they are only original once, but I think I'll match up the paint and make this one look like 1974 again.

[roscoe]

If you want an easy cleanup of the mount, I've found that window cleaner and an old toothbrush with a water rinse cleans that crinkle-paint really nicely, enough that you may not need to repaint it. 

 

You could try a pair of stiff cardboard washers, placed as Charlie suggests, to see if that'll work....

 

The toothbrush method (also, toothpaste works well if you get into hard-to-remove stuff) will also shine up the tripod hardware, and you might try going over the legs with some wood oil finish - watco or the like, to see how that improves them.  I've realized that to refinish legs with urethane, they need to be stripped first, as the urethane doesn't stick well to the (probably some sort of lacquer) finish on them, and chips off easily.  I have to strip and refinish my Swift tripod because of this issue......

 

Very nice of you to pass this scope along, the visual beauty of these older scopes alone makes them a nice gift.  (and if Wife is buying it, she'll be willing to have it in the living room!!)

[roscoe]

PS before you get into a repaint, you might try rubbing, then polishing, compound on the tube to see if it comes back..... of course, if the scratches are deep, it's rattle-can time......

[SkyCruzr]

Roscoe that is the plan on the mount paint, I really didn't want to repaint it. Just need to remove years of dust. Of course the mechanicals will get degreased and re-lubed. I wish some rubbing compund would do the trick, but many of the scratches are wide and showing primer. Rattle can time!

[Stargoat]

Sorry, I don't have a very good photo showing the Selsi 247 packed correctly in the wood box, but here are a couple showing some of the parts stored below the telescope, mount and legs which I believe would have be placed in the box as an assembly with the legs inverted. There may have been a triangular wood block to wrap the tripod legs against when the assy was stored in the box. See ref photos below.

 

This was common way that many scopes from the late 50s and 60 were stored before the use of Styrofoam.

 

Also could you post or PM me a photo of the cover of the manual and also both sides of the department store tag. See marked up ref photo. Thanks

 

BTW, the gold oval PASSED JTII sticker on the focuser housing dates your scope to the 1966 thru 1972 time frame. Based on clues I see compared to a few others I have documented, I'm thinking your scope is closer to the 1972 time frame.

 

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[SkyCruzr]

Thanks for the pics and the date info Stephen! Been on the run all day and just got back to the country. I'll get you the requested pics a little later.

[Bomber Bob]

Based on the Registry... the APL 247s are early 1960s, while the H.O.C. versions may be right around 1960.  Also... the intact / solid cradle with two friction brakes makes me think 1964 or earlier.

 

Apologizing now for my nosiness, but is your 247 the one that was on eBay back in NOV 2015?

Edited by Bomber Bob, 30 June 2016 - 08:15 PM.

[SkyCruzr]

No problem JW, this one was actually a CL find. Another one that sneaked by under the radar in "classics". Seller wouldn't ship, and had one interested party ahead of me. Turns out the other party was buying it for his 8 year old son and the seller told him it was too much scope for an 8 year old. Glad he did! It was January this year.....

[Bomber Bob]

Excellent!  So we're not Super Sleuths, after all...  Great catch!!

 

Now... what became of that eBay $200 BIN 247...

[SkyCruzr]

Excellent!  So we're not Super Sleuths, after all...  Great catch!!

 

Now... what became of that eBay $200 BIN 247...

 

Isn't that the one that had water between the lenses that Turk ended up picking up?

[SkyCruzr]

Here's the pics Stargoat requested...

 

Front page of the manual. I have to fire up the office computer and scan it. Too bad it has water damage.

 

Front of the tag. Too bad the price isn't listed.

 

And the back of the tag. Note the date.....assuming it's the original purchase date.

 

"...$2.50 to cover return handling and postage."    

[Bomber Bob]

 

Excellent!  So we're not Super Sleuths, after all...  Great catch!!

 

Now... what became of that eBay $200 BIN 247...

 

Isn't that the one that had water between the lenses that Turk ended up picking up?

 

 

That's it!  Thanks!!

[Bomber Bob]

"That's going to be a great scope.  An 80/910 gives a nice, wider view with acceptable CA."

 

My Galactic is my new favorite.  About as portable as a 60mm, but with better views - made great with 1.25" accessories.  The Vixen adapter is worth it.

[SkyCruzr]

I was just reading Turk123's Selsi thread, and he made the same comment about using the adapter and 1.25 accessories. I think I'll go ahead and pick up the adapter, a diagonal and a couple of EPs for the new owner of this scope. I'll have to try it out beside my C80 when it is back together.

[Stargoat]

Thks for the photos!

 

I would bet that the scope was purchased around that March 1971 date. Backed up by the gold PASSED JTII tag 66-72 and matched my guestimation of it being closer to the 1972 date.

 

The location of the finder on your scope is on the focuser housing as opposed to the tube which is what is shown on the manual cover. All the older Selsi's have the finder on the tube. There are even 247s that are just a few years older than yours with the gold JTII tag that came with the focuser still on the tube. They also still have the objective cell engraved as yours does not. So that tells me that around 1971 or a little earlier, Selsi revised a few things on the telescope near what may have been the final version of the 247. Also your scope looks like is had the darker gray color of the focuser and obj cell, again what Selsi used on their 1970s scopes.

 

You'll notice that the name Selsi with it trademark inverted check mark on the focuser name tag is what Selsi used going back to the late 1950s IIRC.

 

Now look at the department store tag which has the revised Selsi font....more of a 1970s artwork font is what it reminds me of. Selsi must of been switching over their name logo around the 1971 time frame. You'll notice the same change on their binoculars as well.

 

Here is a dated 1977 Selsi 274 with the same type of department store tag for reference.

 

Here's the pics Stargoat requested...

 

Front page of the manual. I have to fire up the office computer and scan it. Too bad it has water damage.

 

Front of the tag. Too bad the price isn't listed.

 

And the back of the tag. Note the date.....assuming it's the original purchase date.

 

"...$2.50 to cover return handling and postage."  

 

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[Bomber Bob]

What struck me as odd & old was the cradle.  I thought this style went out of use in the 60s.  Did some makers keep it mainly for folding & storing the scope in a smaller case?  Or, did they have excess from an earlier run, and used that up?  I like it on my SS151 - but that metal brake hasn't fallen out (yet) at night in the yard...

[Stargoat]

Just for reference, there is a Selsi 247 on ebay.

 

This one is older as it has the engraved objective cell and the textured finish on the focuser and the mount and cradle have the possibly a lighter textured finish than yours. Or is it just that the photo of your mount and scope is making the light or medium gray look almost a very dark gray black?

 

Is there any difference between your manual and the one listed above on ebay?  Of course the cover is different as the New York is dropped from the Selsi Co Inc at the bottom.

 

I know that a older APL with a smooth gray finish focuser etc from around 1960ish or so that has a silver foil JTII tag on the finder has the same manual cover as the one on ebay.

[SkyCruzr]

Yes I had seen the one on ebay and noticed some differences. Mine is silver tube versus white, and the focuser and lens cell are black on mine. I'll look later and compare the manuals. Their manual is in much better shape than mine. It also looks like there may be some subtle differences with the box.

[Stargoat]

The other Selsi models in the 70 changed over to the silver and black color scheme.  Look like the 247 changed over as well by 1971. Thanks for pointing that out to me....it's very obvious now your tube is silver...I looked right past that...I catch the tiny details and miss the big ones

 

I saved the manual pic on the current ebay for my reference and compared to another one I have archived with the same cover and there are even some difference between those two. With a new cover which yours sports, I would expect some changes indeed.

 

I'm tempted to bid on the ebay scope, but it has a lot of textured paint that has fallen quite a few places. For me the price is too high as I'm getting very picky for any additions to my classic family.

 

Yes I had seen the one on ebay and noticed some differences. Mine is silver tube versus white, and the focuser and lens cell are black on mine. I'll look later and compare the manuals. Their manual is in much better shape than mine. It also looks like there may be some subtle differences with the box.

 

[badback]

I really enjoy the "origami" aspect of these type of scopes,

origami as first mentioned by Bill Griffith in Post #51 at:

http://www.cloudynig...efractor/page-3

 

But in my experience it is really awkward, and a big challenge,

just removing, and re-installing an "origami" scope, especially

the heavier ones like this 80mm Selsi, without smackin' it a bit.

It's Bang, Zoom... long before you get to the moon Alice:

https://www.youtube....h?v=98qw86DsdZ0

 

I didn't have to struggle much figuring how to pack this 80mm

Selsi, due to some earlier puzzlin' with other "origami" scopes.

But... getting to this thing was a real pain as it was the bottom

layer, of a stacked, seven-layer, "Woody" (wood box)" stack.

Them 60mm Lafayette's are heavy suckers I tell ya'.

Oh,the pain, the pain. Hope this helps?

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Edited by badback, 02 July 2016 - 03:38 AM.

[badback]

More pics.

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Edited by badback, 02 July 2016 - 03:40 AM.

[badback]

Edited by badback, 02 July 2016 - 03:51 AM.