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Fake Fujinon FMT-SX 10X70 binoculars sold on eBay?

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#1 rtrenholme

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:36 AM

I recently joined Cloudy Nights because I am working up a history of astronomy course for young people (age range not yet determine). So I wanted to buy some equipment for helping the students get acquinted with the night sky, look at some spectra, and also safely look at the sun. I was very impressed by the comments on the Fujinon 10X70 binoculars so I purchased what was advertised as a used pair in good condition for a little under $600--not exactly a bargain, but OK. Upon receiving and opening the box, I took a look at the night sky and could not converge the images of the moon although I have no trouble doing this on several others (less expensive binoculars I own). I noted the when the image on the left eye is centered, the right eye image is displayed far up and over. It appeared that the binoculars had been dropped, and in fact the metal was exposed on the outer rim of the right objective.

 

I then compared the binoculars with photos on sale pages and noticed significant differences which may indicate that I had received an old model. However, among the many images on Google I could not find a pair that resembled what I had purchased. Then I obtained a pair of FMT-SX 10X70s for comparison. I provide a description and perhaps someone knowledge can give me their opinion. I intended to add a few photos but they don't seem to be loading. I think the descriptions are sufficient, however. I'll refer to the known genuine pair as G and the pair I bought as Q.

 

1,The distance from front to back on Q is about an inch longer than on G.

2. The field on Q is indicated to be 5.0 degrees; on G it is 5 degrees 18'

3. The case for Q is generic without writing; the case for G says in large letters Fujinon with Fujifilm under.

4. The disk on the front of the pivot on G is inscribed in white for the angle markings with a long serial number (letters and numbers) in yellow and Made in Japan under; on Q everything is in yellow, the serial number s just six digits and instead of Made in Japan is the word Waterproof.

5. The plastic cover for the eyepieces lenses on Q has no writing; on G, Fujinon appears on the left cover in letters raised from and molded into the plastic.

6. The long tapered tubes which extend from in front of eyepieces the front end of the Q binoculars have long raised ribs (about 1/4" wide) and abut 6"-8" long on a smooth black background; on G the surface of the tubes is pebbled plastic (common to many binoculars).

7. The cover for the mounting threads in the pivot (the removable disk) says Fuji Fujinon is dull gold on a screw on disk in Q; in G the disk says Fjinon Fujifilm Made in Japan in bright gold lettering on a skisks that pushes in by a center protrusion that goes in the threaded hole.

 

So have any of you encountered genuine FMT-SX 10X70s that resemble Q--the pair I received?

 

I am returning them (or rather asking for a refund) based on the severe out of collimation problem. But I also suspect that they may be a cheap Chinese knock-off such as exist for so many name-brand products.

 

Russell Trenholme



#2 range88

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 02:02 AM

Better post a pic. Shirnk it below 500kb before uploading.
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#3 Jawaid I. Abbasi

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 01:47 PM

Make sure, it should only link because, the picture from Ebay and owned by owner.

Thanks



#4 rtrenholme

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 02:12 PM

I put two photos in Photoshop and reduced the size. These illustrate several of the things I described in the initial posting. The seller accepted a return--but will he simply offer them again? If they are fake, I think I should notify eBay. If not, at least I know that there are quite different designs with the same description. Has anyone else had problems with items offered on eBay being cheap knock-offs?

Russell

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#5 Grimnir

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 04:39 PM

These look suspiciously like BA8 10.5x70s to me.

 

Graham



#6 Grimnir

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 04:42 PM

 ... which are sold in the USA as the Oberwerk Ultra series.

 

I do not believe these are Fujinon.

 

Graham



#7 Grimnir

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 04:50 PM

I think you should notify Fujinon.

 

Graham



#8 hallelujah

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 05:11 PM

http://www.company7..../1070fmtsx.html

 

Not so sure that it is a fake.

 

I vaguely remember that older model Fujinon 10x70's were dressed in rubber armor.

 

https://www.google.c...XLYUbMpxJRqmsM:

 

Those that had the yellow rings around the eyecups.

 

How the specifications differ from the more current 10x70 models I have no idea.

 

The Fujinons are manufactured with their own serial numbers.

 

Stan


Edited by hallelujah, 14 August 2016 - 09:34 PM.


#9 fjnlsa11

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 07:25 PM

I noticed a video online regarding fake Zeiss binoculars, first I heard of this with Fujinon.  But I think Graham is correct. 


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#10 range88

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 09:23 PM

This looks very much like a Chinese clone.

Usually sold under 200 usd.

https://2.taobao.com...0925.0.0.oDVqi1

 

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

 



#11 hallelujah

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 10:21 PM

There are no binoculars shown in the above link.



#12 range88

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 11:24 PM

There are no binoculars shown in the above link.

Yes. there is.

You must open the link with mobile phone. This is a mobile only trading platform.



#13 Uwe Pilz

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 11:30 PM

I own a 16x70. The finish is identical to the images to the one in the first link of hallelulja. I don't believe that you have a Fujinon.Bedide the finish the tubes a much too long. Fujinons are short instruments (for their aperture, of course).


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#14 rtrenholme

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Posted 14 August 2016 - 11:50 PM

Well, the binoculars shown in the photos sent by Ranger 4 are identical. I can contact Fuji, or at least try to contact them (they have many departments) and let them know. However, I think it would be could to somehow interlink reports of fakes. I have had no experience with qu ality  binoculars and if these had not been so badly out of collimation I would have kept them and wondered what the big deal was since undoubtedly there would have been nothing exceptional about their performance. However, if I had come across a report with photos I wqould never have ordered them.

Even if Fuji were to pay attention, it wouldn't do much to get the fakes off the market. These aren't even knockoffs. The appearance is quite different and it is very easy to silk screen lettering on anything that is of similar size and power and pass it off to the ignorant (like me). I had originally wondered if the same model designation had been used on a series of products with different body styles; if that were true, then what I had bought was not a fake but just an earlier and different model. So it would be good for those familiar with a product being reviewed or discussed to give a little history if the model has significantly changed over time or, if it it didn't, to state that.

I'm supposed to return the product for a refund based on the out-of-collimation issue, so I don't need help, but I do hope this email exchange warns others to be careful since there's no way the binoculars I bought  are unique.

Russell 



#15 fjnlsa11

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 12:21 AM

Well, the binoculars shown in the photos sent by Ranger 4 are identical. I can contact Fuji, or at least try to contact them (they have many departments) and let them know. However, I think it would be could to somehow interlink reports of fakes. I have had no experience with qu ality  binoculars and if these had not been so badly out of collimation I would have kept them and wondered what the big deal was since undoubtedly there would have been nothing exceptional about their performance. However, if I had come across a report with photos I wqould never have ordered them.

Even if Fuji were to pay attention, it wouldn't do much to get the fakes off the market. These aren't even knockoffs. The appearance is quite different and it is very easy to silk screen lettering on anything that is of similar size and power and pass it off to the ignorant (like me). I had originally wondered if the same model designation had been used on a series of products with different body styles; if that were true, then what I had bought was not a fake but just an earlier and different model. So it would be good for those familiar with a product being reviewed or discussed to give a little history if the model has significantly changed over time or, if it it didn't, to state that.

I'm supposed to return the product for a refund based on the out-of-collimation issue, so I don't need help, but I do hope this email exchange warns others to be careful since there's no way the binoculars I bought  are unique.

Russell 

I am glad you posted the info because I wasn't aware of the fake,  until recently when I came across the Zeiss video.  It was difficult to tell with just pictures, but the person who posted the video had an authentic Zeiss binocular to compare to the fake. 



#16 Grimnir

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 04:36 AM

http://www.company7..../1070fmtsx.html

 

Not so sure that it is a fake.

 

I vaguely remember that older model Fujinon 10x70's were dressed in rubber armor.

 

https://www.google.c...XLYUbMpxJRqmsM:

 

Those that had the yellow rings around the eyecups.

 

How the specifications differ from the more current 10x70 models I have no idea.

 

The Fujinons are manufactured with their own serial numbers.

 

Stan

 

Stan,

 

I don't recall that any of the Fuji 10x70s were rubber armoured. That and the obvious resemblance to BA8s makes me think they must be fake. Also that there is a collimation problem screams fake! I believe they are probably BA8 rejects or returns due to miscollimation or other faults, which have been bought cheaply, had new prism covers fitted, and are being passed off as genuine Fujinons.

 

Fujinon are a reputable company which markets good products and should be told about this.

 

Graham



#17 Grimnir

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 05:39 AM

This looks very much like a Chinese clone.

Usually sold under 200 usd.

https://2.taobao.com...0925.0.0.oDVqi1

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

Yes, this is the same as Russell's fake. On this website it says (Google translation):

 

>>

Made imitation Fuji 10 × 70
Turn Sell price: ¥ 990.00 This product refuse to bargain!
Price: ¥ 1800.00
Condition: Non-New
The Location: Changsha, Hunan Tianxin

See, this is a fake, not Fuji, and 10.5 × 70 Lang peak domestic long as the optical great, but unfortunately the fog internal prism, there is a fog inner lens surfaces, affecting certain permeability but optics are still good, cheap out

<<

 

So the seller admits they're fakes and is selling them for about $150.

 

Graham



#18 hallelujah

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 06:56 AM

Stan,

 

 

I don't recall that any of the Fuji 10x70s were rubber armoured.

That and the obvious resemblance to BA8s makes me think they must be fake.

 

 

Graham

 

I have been seeing the Fujinon 10x70 rubber armored binoculars on ebay for the past year or more.

 

Company7 does not show any rubber armored Fuji 10x70's neither does my 1998 Fujinon binoculars catalog.

 

Looks like this is some good detective :sleuth:  work, & a heads up for all of us, thanks to rtrenholme.

 

Stan


Edited by hallelujah, 15 August 2016 - 10:50 AM.


#19 Grimnir

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 07:17 AM

Stan,

 

 

I don't recall that any of the Fuji 10x70s were rubber armoured.

That and the obvious resemblance to BA8s makes me think they must be fake.

 

 

Graham

 

I have been seeing the Fujinon 10x70 rubber armored binoculars on ebay for the past year or more.

 

Company7 does not show any rubber armored Fuji 10x70's neither does my 1998 Fujinon binoculars catalog.

 

Looks like this is some good detective :sleuth:  work, & a heads up for all of us, thanks to fjnlsa11.

 

Stan

 

Ok Stan, I hear ya but the Fuji website doesn't list any rubber armoured 10x70s either - several 50mm versions have rubber - but no 70mm.

 

Graham



#20 hallelujah

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 07:30 AM

Ok Stan, I hear ya but the Fuji website doesn't list any rubber armoured 10x70s either - several 50mm versions have rubber - but no 70mm.

 

Graham

I just assumed that the fake Fuji 10x70's, listed on eBay, over the past year or so, were the older discontinued 

models from back in the days of leaded glass & yellow rings around the rubber eyecups.  :sigh: 

 

Stan



#21 range88

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 07:38 AM


This looks very much like a Chinese clone.
Usually sold under 200 usd.
https://2.taobao.com...0925.0.0.oDVqi1

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg
attachicon.gifimage.jpeg


Yes, this is the same as Russell's fake. On this website it says (Google translation):

>>
Made imitation Fuji 10 × 70
Turn Sell price: ¥ 990.00 This product refuse to bargain!
Price: ¥ 1800.00
Condition: Non-New
The Location: Changsha, Hunan Tianxin
See, this is a fake, not Fuji, and 10.5 × 70 Lang peak domestic long as the optical great, but unfortunately the fog internal prism, there is a fog inner lens surfaces, affecting certain permeability but optics are still good, cheap out
<<

So the seller admits they're fakes and is selling them for about $150.

Graham
Hail to machine translation.

#22 rtrenholme

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 09:20 AM

Fake-Bino-Receipt-ps.jpg Fake-Fujinon-ps.jpg I think this will be my last post on the topic. I did screen shots of the PayPal receipt showing the item number, description and email of the seller. I tried to retrieve the listing using every option including the item number without success. This is strange since I have never had any trouble retrieving these in the past. I did find another listing for an even lower price from a seller in South Carolina that appeared to be the same but the photo ws too small to be sure.

Russell

 



#23 fjnlsa11

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 03:26 PM

attachicon.gifFake-Bino-Receipt-ps.jpgattachicon.gifFake-Fujinon-ps.jpgI think this will be my last post on the topic. I did screen shots of the PayPal receipt showing the item number, description and email of the seller. I tried to retrieve the listing using every option including the item number without success. This is strange since I have never had any trouble retrieving these in the past. I did find another listing for an even lower price from a seller in South Carolina that appeared to be the same but the photo ws too small to be sure.

Russell

If they were made by Fujinon and rubber coated, I believe it should be listed as FMTR-SX, and not just FMT as specified.   As mentioned above, I am not aware of the Fujion 10x70 being offered with rubber coating. 


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#24 SMark

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 04:02 PM

I agree with Graham. These are KUA rejects. Someone saw the opportunity for a big profit. These will likely continue showing up on eBay.

 

Here's one that already got away... http://www.ebay.com/itm/322163472690

Now wait for it to be re-listed.


Edited by SMark, 15 August 2016 - 04:04 PM.


#25 Foss

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 06:16 PM

FWIW: I just looked at photos of an older set of 10x70s (Fujinon-Meibo) I once owned, the FOV is 5 degrees 18'

edit: and not rubber coated


Edited by Foss, 15 August 2016 - 06:31 PM.



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