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Fake Fujinon FMT-SX 10X70 binoculars sold on eBay?

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#26 rtrenholme

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Posted 16 August 2016 - 09:47 PM

Original bino ad.jpg I'm the one who almost got taken on these. I finally was able to retrieve the original ad which I'm now posting here. One the fact that the cosmetic damage was a severe ding on the edge of the housing of one one objective saved me by putting the collimation so far out that the images appeared in completely difference areas of the two eyepiece fields. I can't prove that the seller knew he was selling fakes--I'll let you decide. Here's the original ad:

 



#27 SMark

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Posted 16 August 2016 - 10:27 PM

I will go so far as to say that I have dealt with this seller on a number of occasions and have never had any problems. The fact that he deals mostly in used vintage binoculars indicates to me that he could have been fooled on this one. I can be very honest in saying that I saw this listing before you purchased it, and no warning bells went off for me.



#28 Grimnir

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 02:11 AM

I have notified Fujinon Europe and Fujinon USA but not yet heard back from either.

 

Graham



#29 orion61

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 09:06 PM

I find it very disturbing that one of our major trade partners (China) is BY FAR the leader in counterfeit merchandise!

Ebay is the worst snakes den for it. I have caught a Fake Fender Stratocaster, 3 Shure Microphones an SM58, A Beta 57, and a Shure 87, The 87 was laughably obvious as it was a Dynamic microphone! the real ones are a phantom power Condenser! China Fakes everything from Designer Clothes, NFL Jerseys, Watches, Ladies designer Shoes and Handbags, I even saw an Original Chinese product, a Military style Cree Flashlight Bootlegged by ANOTHER Chinese company!!!!!

I even saw a Chinese Stealth Fighter copied from the one we lost when it was shot down in Kosovo with modified Russian long wave Radar that can see the plane when it opened its Bomb bay doors!

Would we stand for this from ANY other trade partner?



#30 range88

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 09:20 PM

I find it very disturbing that one of our major trade partners (China) is BY FAR the leader in counterfeit merchandise!
Ebay is the worst snakes den for it. I have caught a Fake Fender Stratocaster, 3 Shure Microphones an SM58, A Beta 57, and a Shure 87, The 87 was laughably obvious as it was a Dynamic microphone! the real ones are a phantom power Condenser! China Fakes everything from Designer Clothes, NFL Jerseys, Watches, Ladies designer Shoes and Handbags, I even saw an Original Chinese product, a Military style Cree Flashlight Bootlegged by ANOTHER Chinese company!!!!!
I even saw a Chinese Stealth Fighter copied from the one we lost when it was shot down in Kosovo with modified Russian long wave Radar that can see the plane when it opened its Bomb bay doors!
Would we stand for this from ANY other trade partner?


That's a complicated problem. All in all China is currently at the copycat stage. It will continue to be for quite a few years.

#31 starbase25

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 10:02 AM

No Flea-bay for me !!!!



#32 SMark

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 11:32 AM

Thanx for bringing this one back up. Here is another one... http://www.ebay.com/itm/222474034937

 

Unfortunately, it was already sold when I found it. At least the buyer should get a fairly decent value, since the price wasn't terribly over-inflated. But it is fraud, nevertheless. I'm sure the seller was completely unaware.



#33 Eric.TB

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 11:40 AM

Thanx for bringing this one back up. Here is another one... http://www.ebay.com/itm/222474034937

 

Unfortunately, it was already sold when I found it. At least the buyer should get a fairly decent value, since the price wasn't terribly over-inflated. But it is fraud, nevertheless. I'm sure the seller was completely unaware.

HOLY SMOKES! Look at the 5th picture in that link. There is a little white "Made in China" sticker right on the housing.

 

Wow. Just wow. Why would anyone go to the trouble of trying to pass this off as a genuine Fujinon as then leave a Made in China sticker on them? Come to think of it, in the past, I remember a company on EBAY that was producing Fake Surefire flashlights, that looked identical, but for whatever reasons still had a Made in China sticker on them.

 

Interesting, maybe this isn't the work of a lone individual, maybe there is an actual manufacturer doing this. Who knows?



#34 SMark

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:27 PM

I am betting that there is no deterrent when it comes to manufacturing fraud in China. BUT, to sell something that is MADE IN CHINA, and not have that little sticker attached to it...

 

I'll bet there is a law against that one. coolnod.gif



#35 Rich V.

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:37 PM

Buyers have to take some responsibility for what they are buying.  These "fake Fujis" are clearly re-marked Chinese KUO BA8 binos.  

 

I certainly don't spend hundreds of dollars on something I know little to nothing about.  I do the necessary research so that I know what to look for.  If people can't be bothered to invest some of their time doing their homework, it's hard for me to feel sorry for them.

 

The world is full of all kinds of fakery these days thanks to the internet; "doing your homework" on just about anything is a necessity, IMO.

 

Rich


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#36 hallelujah

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:38 PM

Mark,

 

Is the made in China sticker the only evidence or are there other signs to look for,

when it comes to fake Fujinon FMT binoculars?

 

Stan



#37 SMark

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:45 PM

One other thing that is also obvious but yet easy to look past...

 

The FOV of a real Fuji 10x70 is 5°18'. The fake clearly says 5.0°.



#38 hallelujah

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:48 PM

Great, thanks!



#39 KennyJ

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:14 PM

I suppose looking on the brighter side, at least those people who buy Celestron Skymasters rather than Fujinon FMTs, have far less to fear and lose if the ones they buy end up being fakes! smile.gif



#40 Grimnir

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 02:14 AM

Mark,

 

Is the made in China sticker the only evidence or are there other signs to look for,

when it comes to fake Fujinon FMT binoculars?

 

Stan

 

Stan, 

 

The main indicator is that they differ physically. For example, the current 10x70 FMT-SX does not have rubber armour (it's unclear to me whether any older model Fuji FMT-SX 10x70 had rubber armour). Also the prism housing is a different shape - and the objective cells, etc etc.

 

Graham


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#41 Foss

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:28 AM

Good point Graham

Careful side-by-side photo comparisons against known real examples have kept me out of hot water in the past.  



#42 Rich V.

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:21 AM

 

Mark,

 

Is the made in China sticker the only evidence or are there other signs to look for,

when it comes to fake Fujinon FMT binoculars?

 

Stan

 

Stan, 

 

The main indicator is that they differ physically. For example, the current 10x70 FMT-SX does not have rubber armour (it's unclear to me whether any older model Fuji FMT-SX 10x70 had rubber armour). Also the prism housing is a different shape - and the objective cells, etc etc.

 

Graham

 

I've been into Fuji FMTs since the earlier iterations before the so-called "SX-2" change from about 2002.  The 70mms only came as FMTs or MTs; no "R" models with rubber body armor.  The only rubber armor was the ring surrounding the objectives.

 

The earliest models were black and had yellow rings on the eyepieces. During the last few years of production of that "first" model the yellow rings were dropped and the binos were all black.  Around 2001-2002 the "new" body was introduced and the coverings and prism covers were changed to the current gray.  The body is physically a bit different than the early models.

 

The KUO BA8 sourced binos don't really look much like either Fujinon body style outside or inside.  Sure, there's a resemblance, but to many people, all binos look pretty much alike anyhow...   

 

Rich


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#43 Blind as an Eagle

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 11:54 AM

No Flea-bay for me !!!!

Is there a better alternative? I know *bay can harbor the unscrupulous, but the sheer variety of items (presuming they are genuine)

is a great resource. Many of us seek the "bigger and better deal", so is there a place to go for real merchandise and less subterfuge, on line?

Thanks...



#44 RSPN

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:02 PM

These binoculars aren't fake, they're made by Fujinon for government contracts. I emailed fujinon about them as I also have a pair and was looking to sell them on ebay but was messaged by another user regarding their authenticity. I knew they weren't fake, but knew the guy wouldn't take my word for it, searched through google, came onto this site and a few of these threads here, saw what was said, and thought I'd set the record straight.

 

You can't find them in your magazines because they aren't commonly available for purchase. But they are from Fujinon, the rubber armor is to help prevent rain damage and the minor shock. Here's the reply I received from fujinon -

 

Dear XXX,

 

Thank you for your inquiry.

 

The binoculars you have are a special binocular made for government contracts. They were specially made, and are not exactly the same as the Fujinon Polaris 10x70 FMT-SX binoculars that are "Made in Japan". The optics in them are not exactly the same, as they were made to fulfill government requirements. To call them a knock-off isn't exactly accurate, since we did make the binoculars ourselves. However, they are not same as the "Made in Japan", non-rubber armored model.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

if you have any other questions, please let me know.

 

Thank you,

 

James Faulch
Product Support Coordinator

 

FUJIFILM North America Corporation                 
Optical Devices Division
 



#45 Rich V.

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:09 PM

RSPN, your post is interesting for sure.  So Fuji says they're "not exactly the same as the Fujinon Polaris 10x70 FMT-SX binoculars that are "Made in Japan" ",  but they still identify them as "FMT-SX"?   confused1.gif    Strange...

 

Perhaps Fuji sells a lower cost "Mil spec" bino for the military but it sure appears like they are based on KUO sourced parts from China.  These appear to be completely different construction from Japanese FMTs; no eccentrics, different frame, optics.  That a KUO BA8 based bino could be sold legitimately as an "FMT-SX" in any market seems wrong, IMO.  I wonder what the military pays for these?

 

Rich



#46 SMark

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 04:13 PM

Exactly. If it isn't a FMT-SX as he seems to indicate, then why does it say FMT-SX on it? That's a misrepresentation. 

 

And if they are going to put FMT-SX on it anyway, why not put FMTR-SX on it then? After all... it is rubber covered.


Edited by SMark, 11 April 2019 - 11:44 PM.


#47 RSPN

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 04:19 PM

Rich,

 

If you knew military expenditure you'd know they probably weren't lower cost grin.gif

 

I know the military has had some problems in the past with outsourced parts from chinese manufacturers but has clamped down on that in the last decade+, I could email the guy back to see what other information I could get from him regarding them, but AFAIK they hold the same standards with more rugged build and optics (thus less eccentrics) than the retail FMT-SX models. I have used mine for whale watching, the most amateur of astronomy, and other things in the past and they do (at least in my opinion, which is as amateur as it gets) a pretty good job though I obviously can't compare them to the retail FMT-SX 10x70 model as I don't have a pair of those. I actually don't even know what makes a pair of binoculars or what FMT-SX stands for, if I weren't planning on selling them I'd take them apart and send pictures this way.

 

-RSPN


Edited by RSPN, 11 April 2019 - 04:20 PM.


#48 Rich V.

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 04:42 PM

I don't think there's anything more rugged than solidly mounted prisms and eccentric objective cells to insure a bino's holding collimation.  That's why Fuji and Nikon have used those conventions all along with their best Porros.  The BA8 and MS type KUO binos similar to these "Chinese FMTs" use adjustable, spring loaded prism shelves instead but I don't think that's because they're a intended to be a more rugged build; it's about economics.

 

I'd think long time professional bino techs like Bill Cook or Cory Suddarth would say that the standard "retail" FMTs are the real deal in a Mil Spec bino and not the other way around.

 

Rich



#49 RSPN

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 04:58 PM

Rich,

 

I'll send him a reply and see if he sends me anything about the differences these have from the regular FMT-SX models as well as their intended use. I'm assuming though that these are military purposed. If he sends me anything I'll post an update here. Until then, I'm glad to know that they're legitimate.

 

-RSPN


Edited by RSPN, 11 April 2019 - 05:07 PM.


#50 SMark

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Posted 11 April 2019 - 11:50 PM

The big question that I would ask is whether this Chinese FMT-SX actually has a field flattener or not. Of course, the label itself says that it does. But if the label was going to be correct, you'd think there would be an "R" in it as well...




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