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New Mallincam 4:3rds coming it seems

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#1 A. Viegas

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 08:18 PM

Just watched a few minutes of Rock's broadcast where he was testing a new 16MP 4:3rds camera...   seems like its the same sensor basics as the ASI1600 and the QHY 163M/C   namely  3.8um pixels and 4600x3500 roughly...   Assuming it will be color, not sure if he will have a mono version.  Looks like everyone is getting into the game with this 4:3rds sensor...   No details if it will be actively cooled or not, from the broadcast it does not seem like it will be actively cooled.  Also with the $1000 price point already firmly established for this product category, I would think he would need to price it $750 or less to be competitive.   Software seems like the same MallincamSky, so not sure if that will be ASCOM compatible or not.   

Al


 

#2 David B in NM

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 08:34 PM

My guess is it's using a Panasonic MN34230 sensor.

 

http://www.semicon.p...3/IS00006AE.pdf

 

If you look for at the last two entries (green/turquoise colored) it's probably the camera.

 

http://touptek.com/p...?lang=en&id=246

 

BTW:  The sensor has been used for EAA before and Imaging.  It is what the GH4 contains.  So, if my guess is correct Mallincam is not the first one to use the sensor for Astronomy.

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 05 September 2016 - 08:37 PM.

 

#3 Alien Observatory

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 10:52 PM

Ohhh..Ohhhh...Sign me up today... Another Mallincam Miracle Cam... I can hardly wait...NOT...


Edited by Alien Observatory, 05 September 2016 - 10:53 PM.

 

#4 Censustaker

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 11:17 PM

Hey.. At least it's being tested.
 

#5 Censustaker

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 11:29 PM

Wow. That looks like a serious camera!
 

#6 Relativist

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 11:42 PM

Actually this is the one I am waiting for....

 

http://www.qhyccd.com/QHY42.html

 

Wait, will there be variable gain, and a stable driver? I hope so...


 

#7 Dragon Man

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 06:22 AM

Actually this is the one I am waiting for....

 

http://www.qhyccd.com/QHY42.html

:shocked:

 

11um pixels!!!! Real Deep Sky power!

I'm interested  :waytogo:

 

Now that is stepping out into pixel sizes we need, not copying what already exists with another name whacked on it.


 

#8 A. Viegas

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 07:35 AM

Lets keep it on track (yea that QHY looks awesome... but could be pricey   :undecided: )  

 

-- Mallincam Prototype

 

Here take a look -- Jack has a number of youtube videos he recorded of the testing.

https://www.youtube....DsHC6Hcw27x67NA

 

 Give Mallincam a little credit -- they are trying to come up with a successful product... not sure what additional advances this camera will have over existing ASI1600/QHY 163/183  already out there... but lets see...

Al


 

#9 Relativist

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 08:59 AM

Al,

 

I was lucky enough to click this particular one:

 

https://www.youtube....27x67NA&index=7

 

Where Jim publicly asked if it was a 16 mp camera and Rock was asking 'what are you talking about' with Jack laughing at them. Rock happened to have the controls broadcast that showed 4640x3506.

 

About the QHY42, please start a separate thread for that topic per Al's request.


 

#10 Alien Observatory

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 10:10 AM

No need for another thread, as the QHY is not currently available (and may never be).

 

But it does represent something different than the latest and greatest 4:3's crop of DSLR sensor based cams that are not much better than the existing Nikon/Sony/Cannon cams available.  

 

I have chosen to wait out the 4:3 's sensor cams and other cams based on the Sony 185, 178, 174, 825, 302, 224, 25X, .... sensor's for something that might actually be a big step forward rather than an incremental step...time will tell....


Edited by Alien Observatory, 06 September 2016 - 03:04 PM.

 

#11 mclewis1

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 10:21 AM

Hmmmm. Likely based on the ToupTek MG3 series (thanks David) which appears to be what the SkyRaider DS2.3+ is also based on. Using that nice 16.3mp BSI CMOS sensor (the 2x2, and 3x3 binning resolutions also match what the software displayed).

 

Some may see the SkyRaider software (and it's dark field feature) offering some extra value compared to the ASI1600 but I just don't see the hardware itself offering any substantial differentiation.

 

I think the new camera will appeal mostly to existing MC SkyRaider customers (particularly those who want to upgrade from the original DS series and didn't go with the DS2.3+) who are looking for a larger sensor.


Edited by mclewis1, 06 September 2016 - 10:23 AM.

 

#12 A. Viegas

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 10:58 AM

Al,

 

I was lucky enough to click this particular one:

 

https://www.youtube....27x67NA&index=7

 

Where Jim publicly asked if it was a 16 mp camera and Rock was asking 'what are you talking about' with Jack laughing at them. Rock happened to have the controls broadcast that showed 4640x3506.

 

About the QHY42, please start a separate thread for that topic per Al's request.

 

Yes... I found the hyena like laughing very rude.   Also it was a very basic question.   Honestly, why would they pick on him for such an innocent question...  just very rude... Jack & Rock should publicly apologize to Jim


 

#13 jimthompson

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 11:41 AM

Thanks for the concern Al, but no worries.  It was an amusing moment for all including myself.  Rock, Jack and I have chatted since and all is cool.

 

I missed large parts of Rock's broadcast but from what I saw the camera produces a reasonably low noise image.  My hope is that it also has a low amount of warm pixels and amp glow or other non-uniformities so that dark frames are not necessarily required for live viewing.  One less step in the process is always welcome.  Did anyone see the daytime broadcast on the Sun?  I was wondering how it did there.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jim T.


 

#14 David B in NM

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 11:54 AM

Give Mallincam a little credit -- they are trying to come up with a successful product...

Al

 

IMHO Rock just rebadged the camera ToupTek offered and I doubt you'll see any improvements over the stock camera.  I also don't think he "invented/designed it".

 

This is like DejaVu.  Check about the 2:25 mark on the youtube link below.  There's a story about how Rock invented/designed the HD SDI camera and actually picked out the sensor for it.  I find it pretty funny because Ken James (aka Dragon Man on CN) found the EXACT same camera with the EXACT Sensor on ali-express about 9 months before this broadcast.  Rock just rebadged the camera Ken found.  I wonder if Rock gave Ken a finder's fee?

 

I think Rock would be better served if he was actually more honest and gave credit where credit was due.  But that's only my opinion.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=2ekgRQCrFNU

 

Do you remember that Ken?

 

http://astrovideofor...egapixel-camera

 

I also find it odd that Steve Chambers asked Rock for his advice.  IMHO the Atik Infinity was created without any of Rock's knowledge.

 

Perhaps Rock and his boasting is his biggest enemy because not everything he says is fact-based.  When the facts are exposed, he only hurts himself.

 

I also find myself wondering, why Rock released the StarVision when he's now said that this camera (Touptek 16mp) is FAR BETTER and MORE SENSITIVE than any ICX825 camera on the market.  But perhaps the StarVision is an exception. I really think now he sells cameras for the money rather than to advance Astronomy.  IMHO if he knew his new cam was better, he wouldn't have released the SV.  If he wanted people to have the best views, he would have informed people he had a new camera that was better.

 

Mallincam once had the confidence of people but Rock and his gamesmanship in sales pitches and hype has pretty much lost the confidence of many now.  It's difficult not to believe many realize he is rebadging the cameras by other companies and taking credit for it.

 

How many All Sky cams have you seen with a "black shield" used in dome security cameras (about 5:19):

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=J18dNV5VjLo

 

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 06 September 2016 - 12:37 PM.

 

#15 Alien Observatory

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 01:34 PM

Well this link says it all...  "or hand picked from top tier international manufacturers" (i.e. Toup Tek)...

 

http://www.mallincam.net/cameras.html


 

#16 Lorence

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 01:44 PM

 

Give Mallincam a little credit -- they are trying to come up with a successful product...

Al

 

IMHO Rock just rebadged the camera ToupTek offered and I doubt you'll see any improvements over the stock camera.  I also don't think he "invented/designed it".

 


 

David B in NM

 

 

By your standards Celestron and Meade have no business selling telescopes.  They didn't invent the SCT. How dare they sell it.

 

I'm still waiting for the CN camera. With the expertise available to assist in it's design I'm sure it will be the astro holy grail.

 

Perhaps the coalition just needs a kick start to get the ball rolling. Let me offer a hand to get all on the right path.

 

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/

 

 

:) :) :)


 

#17 David B in NM

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 01:47 PM

Well this link says it all...  "or hand picked from top tier international manufacturers" (i.e. Toup Tek)...

 

http://www.mallincam.net/cameras.html

 

That's comical.  Has Rock ever informed anyone as to what cameras were hand-picked?  IIRC, all of his cameras made by LNTech were designed by him.  He said he designed his Micro and the DSP was different than the stock camera.  The youtube for the HD SDI clearly shows he designed it too (not hand-picked).  He also claimed he designed the ToupTek cams and the software he rebadged (not hand-picked them).  Doesn't it seem odd he had to design so many cameras when they were sold commercially by other manufacturers before he designed them and that his ToupTek cams cam in the same boxes.

 

Can anyone name any hand-picked Mallincam Cameras?

 

David B in NM


 

#18 David B in NM

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 01:56 PM

Lorence,

 

Up to now, Rock has bragged about how he developed the cameras hasn't he?  Do you see a difference in his claims and other companies?  I have yet to see a company go to the extremes that Mallincam does to sell their products.

 

Don't you feel credit should be given where do?  Does slapping a label on a camera mean the camera was designed by them?

 

As to a CN camera...gee...IMHO we act in the same capacity as Mallincam.  Some of us hunt for good cameras that are already sold and suggest them (mainly security cameras).  We don't slap a label on them and then resell them saying we designed them.  That's the only difference.

 

I see a big difference in recommending/endorsing and rebadging products.  Maybe you don't though.  Why can't Rock suggest cameras?  The HD SDI cam was available at Mallincam for a $200 increase for the label only?  Is this promoting Astronomy or making a profit?

 

I suggested Rock become more honest and humble and stop the hype.  What's wrong with that?

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 06 September 2016 - 02:00 PM.

 

#19 Censustaker

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 02:12 PM

 

 

Give Mallincam a little credit -- they are trying to come up with a successful product...

Al

 

IMHO Rock just rebadged the camera ToupTek offered and I doubt you'll see any improvements over the stock camera.  I also don't think he "invented/designed it".

 


 

David B in NM

 

 

By your standards Celestron and Meade have no business selling telescopes.  They didn't invent the SCT. How dare they sell it.

 

I'm still waiting for the CN camera. With the expertise available to assist in it's design I'm sure it will be the astro holy grail.

 

Perhaps the coalition just needs a kick start to get the ball rolling. Let me offer a hand to get all on the right path.

 

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/

 

 

:) :) :)

 

 

Are you essentially saying that this EAA forum who's main purpose I would argue is to critique and discuss equipment has no right to do so unless we invent our own? 


Edited by Censustaker, 06 September 2016 - 03:46 PM.

 

#20 jambi99

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 02:49 PM

Personally , I think Mallincam is going in the wrong direction by just rebranding such camera. I think they should stick to what makes Mallincam unique: video astronomy.

 

I think Rock should focus on developing a NexGen(digital?) video camera that would require no computer and would include feature like internal stacking/alignment, video enhancement, hdmi out ect...

 

Otherwise he does not bring anything new , perhaps different, on the table.


Edited by jambi99, 06 September 2016 - 02:51 PM.

 

#21 mclewis1

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 03:28 PM

I think Rock should focus on developing a NexGen(digital?) video camera that would require no computer and would include feature like internal stacking/alignment, video enhancement, hdmi out ect...

Unfortunately doing this from scratch would never be cost effective. I just don't believe that there is a large enough marketplace to warrant the development of such a camera. The only hope would be for a camera manufacturer to produce something similar (suitable base to build extra EAA oriented features onto). It's highly unlikely to find a mass produced product (so the costs are reasonable) already with the EAA oriented features.

 

But it is interesting to consider the the idea of an Xterminator like camera (mild cooling, sealed chamber, copper heat sink, Aerogel, etc.) with an 825 based CCD and an higher end one with the 16.3mp BSI CMOS sensor that use USB for control and offers digital video out on either/both of the USB and HDMI connections.


 

#22 Censustaker

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 03:58 PM

It could be possible and/or cost effective if it used an embedded computer system to do the conversion. One could imagine an embedded linux system attached to the camera board running the ARM version of toupsky. QHYCCD has a camera that has an embedded linux system. 

 

http://www.qhyccd.com/IC8300.html


 

#23 Starman27

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:31 PM

Many companies, especially small  ones, use contract manufacturers to build their products. The design specs may be unique and the configurations customized, but the manufacturing is under a contract. So, if Rock design the specs and contract manufactures the product under his brand, this is just a normal business practice.  For example, many of the boutique hair product you use are all made on the same production line at a contract manufacturer. The marketing is a different matter, but it is just marketing.


 

#24 David B in NM

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 05:39 PM

Many companies, especially small  ones, use contract manufacturers to build their products. The design specs may be unique and the configurations customized, but the manufacturing is under a contract. So, if Rock design the specs and contract manufactures the product under his brand, this is just a normal business practice.  For example, many of the boutique hair product you use are all made on the same production line at a contract manufacturer. The marketing is a different matter, but it is just marketing.

 

I agree and understand what you're saying.  There's also Licensing.  Touptek develops the cameras and the software and licenses it to companies like Mallincam, Altair Astro and iOptron.  IMHO if Rock developed the MallincamSky software the launch of his SR DSc would have been much better.  It was evident he didn't test it.  The software used by these companies is the same and is based on ToupSky.

 

IMHO if Mallincam actually designed the Micro, and subcontract it to LNTech for manufacture, the NTSC model would have been a full color cam.  It performs just as the LN300 NTSC camera does when applying gain at a high brightness level and defaults to mono.  The heat shield is found on all LN300 cameras as is WDR.  The PAL versions of the Micro and stock LN300 camera perform just like each other (allow the full use of gain and are full color).  I doubt the HD SDI camera was subcontracted either.  Right down to the gold plating and DSP, the stock camera is the same as is the menu.  One can purchase the stock camera and use the Mallincam manual for good instruction (very well written).  Besides, it was available on ali-express 9 months before Mallincam posted the youtube (see my post above).

 

Anyone could have purchased the All Sky Cam on ali-express and save over $200 if they removed the IR Filter.  Once again, you can use the Mallincam Manual and it is a mirror image.  I do know several CN members purchased it and saved the money.  Remember to look at the youtube above for the black shield and compare it to what's pictured here.

 

http://www.aliexpres..._601605354.html

 

 

So, IMHO there is much more to the argument for rebranding.  IMHO if there is a licensing agreement between two companies, only one has a claim to the design process.  You can contact ToupTek and they'll provide price quotes on the cameras they have listed. 

 

Once again, this is my opinion but the facts do support my claim.

 

David B in NM


Edited by David B in NM, 06 September 2016 - 05:58 PM.

 

#25 Alien Observatory

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 07:00 PM

Well I am in for an alternate route to making high quality cams.....

 

Alien Observatory Astro Cams LLC...Available Now (sort of just need to order some)....per the parts/module vendors web site:

 

"Work With Us
Make Your Own HD IP Cameras in Your Garage. We Provide All ! Empower you to become your own camera manufacturer, making 1,000 cameras in your garage every month. Contact Us today!"

 

http://www.ipcameram...-camera-module/


 


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