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Vintage AP Scopes

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#26 Scott99

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 01:44 PM

I have asked AP about the actual glass in this but they say they don't have records going back as far as that to confirm exact elements (I think they are basically telling me to b** off).  Mike Sidonio told me that Roland had confirmed to him that the centre element was FPL-53, not 51 as per Tom Back's recollection.

Roberto

 

Having made so many telescopes I'm sure nobody is going to remember the details unless they kept records.  It does seem impossible to get that color correction without FPL53 or fluorite, if there was a mating glass that magical with FPL51 we'd probably still be talking about it!



#27 Derek Wong

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 03:17 AM

  could go on with this topic for pages!   Love the older AP scopes.  are there any more questions?  I can remember almost everything about AP from this time period, I still have some of the catalogs and literature here as well.

 

PS - one more thought, if you're interested in the 80's pre-ED "Christen Triplet" there are 2 articles in S&T you should read, they include color correction graphs and more on these lenses, and the tri-space corrector project.  The graph showed the 6" f/8 as having the color correction of an f/24 achromat.  The Starfire pre-ED's are supposed to be 5 times better corrected for false color, the same as the Tak FS series or better.  I could have ordered the 140mm f/7 Starfire in '86 but it cost more money.

Hi Scott:

 

I'll contact you about the catalogs offline later.

 

I went through the S+T DVDs (which barely work with a hack due to a security issue in Flash see http://www.cloudynig...et-not-working/ ) and found the following articles:
Oct 1981 376-381   5” Refractor and 160mm glass prescription for non-ED triplet (correction published April 1982)
Oct 1985 375-378   Trispace Correctors

 

There is more about color correction of the different models here (download the whole catalog to see details plus it has an excerpt from the Astronomy review):
http://wiki.telescop...alog.pdf&page=2

 

A more technical explanation can be found in Telescope Making issue 28 P.20.  See a modified graph from that issue here:
http://www.cloudynig...sn-4/?p=5878322

 

Derek


Edited by Derek Wong, 06 October 2016 - 03:20 AM.

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#28 Scott99

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 11:18 AM

 

Hi Scott:

 

I'll contact you about the catalogs offline later.

 

 

thanks for the links!  the full copy of the '87 catalog is a great resource, at the time he was explaining each of the lens types in great detail.  All I have is a couple pages from that year's catalog and also the 4" f/6 Astronomy review.  That is the full text of the 6" f/8 review from Astronomy magazine. 


Edited by Scott99, 06 October 2016 - 11:26 AM.


#29 starman876

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 01:14 PM

Great information to have with my 6" F8.  Thanks



#30 Daniel Mounsey

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 10:11 PM

Some great history in this forum!



#31 STE411

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 07:43 AM

I remember my wife saying Honey, don't throw that invoice away keep it you might need it some day.

She's laughing right now.



#32 Star Ship

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 09:47 PM

One of my first posts on CN was titled "Lucky Duck?" in which I described the discovery of my AP 4 inch F-6 setting in the closet for 20 years. ( I know- it's a long story.)  The most cutting comment came from one "Bugs Bunny"  with his "What a maroon! "  statement.  I am happy to say  the AP now rides on a CGEM  and is very happy.  :grin:



#33 Scott99

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 11:52 PM

One of my first posts on CN was titled "Lucky Duck?" in which I described the discovery of my AP 4 inch F-6 setting in the closet for 20 years. ( I know- it's a long story.)  The most cutting comment came from one "Bugs Bunny"  with his "What a maroon! "  statement.  I am happy to say  the AP now rides on a CGEM  and is very happy.  :grin:

you mean this?  good story!

 

http://www.cloudynig...510-lucky-duck/



#34 Derek Wong

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 11:30 PM

Here is another beautiful borrowed scope, a 5" f/12 pre-ED triplet Superplanetary.  Not many of these were made because the 6" f/12 models were still of reasonable weight and cost.  We used this on the Moon, and it gave beautiful images with no real color in focus.  A very faint purple halo could be seen on Vega, with surprisingly mild out of focus color.  The figure looked excellent - it was impossible to get a really good read due to mediocre seeing conditions and the lack of a large planetary target, but Mars still looked quite sharp at 218x and the star test looked promising.  We viewed several doubles from 2.5 arc seconds and up, along with some brighter DSOs like M57.

 

This scope is listed at 14 pounds for the OTA, and with rings and all equipment can't be much over 20 pounds.  It is very easy to handle (much lighter than a similar size Apomax) and really easy to use.  One of these models came up in the last year and I am kicking myself for not having more of an interest in it.  The only regret I had is that it doesn't have enough focuser in-travel for modern 2" eyepieces and a 2" diagonal.  I would love to see a 31 Nagler on this instrument.

 

Derek

 

AP 5F12.jpg

 

AP 5F12 Lens.jpg


Edited by Derek Wong, 09 October 2016 - 11:32 PM.

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#35 dyslexic nam

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 01:55 PM

I was really fortunate to acquire a classic AP scope almost 2 years ago.  It is a 130mm f8 triplet, with a signed lens cell that is dated Jan 86 - which puts it as a really early AP scope. 

 

Further to this, the serial number is 5081.  Based on the AP serial number system back then:

- 5 is the aperture (in inches)

- 08 is the focal ratio, and

- 1 represents the first numbered scope in that series  :)

 

So, not only is it a classic - it is a 01 serial number.  Really glad I managed to get it since it seems like a bit of AP history.

 

The full thread on this scope can be found here:

http://www.cloudynig...ic-ap-130mm-f8/

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  • IMG_7046.JPG
  • IMG_7041.JPG
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#36 Jeff B

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Posted 11 October 2016 - 06:28 PM

Yup a 5" F8 "standard Christen triplet".  

 

Very nice indeed.  I had one that I modified for a newer focuser and shortened for bino-viewing (what you hear in the distance is the growling from the AP collectors).   A very nice scope and package which could hold its own against my TMB 130 F9.25 up to a good 130x or so before a bit of color would start to show on stuff like Vega, Sirius and especially Venus.  But it was still very sharp with very good spherical correction.

 

Jeff

Attached Thumbnails

  • AP130 F8 C.jpg
  • Sleek or scratch.jpg
  • On top of case B.jpg

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#37 photiost

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Posted 12 October 2016 - 06:49 PM

AP 6in f/12 Superplanetary -  :bow:

 

These telescopes have outstanding optics !! 

-

 

 

 

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  • ap 6in f12 Superplanetary IMG_4679.jpg

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#38 STE411

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 08:18 PM

Hi Frank,

ls that the 706, do you still use it? I still use mine not fancy but gets the job done.

steve


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#39 photiost

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Posted 16 October 2016 - 04:54 PM

Hi Steve, I will have to check with my friend but yes I believe this may be the #706 ... I believe some of these incredible instruments also came with the #800 mount ...

 

If you have some images of yours pls post !!

 

Edit: Below is a closeup.

.

ap 6in f12 #706 mount IMG_3718 b.jpg


Edited by photiost, 16 October 2016 - 05:03 PM.

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#40 Jeff B

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 10:21 AM

So let's morph this thread a bit to "Post a picture of your vintage AP stuff".

 

I'll add this one, a 6" F9 Blue-Tube.  The lens photo was taken in double pass with a 133 LPI grate.  A very nice lens indeed.

 

Jeff

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Blue Tube A.jpg
  • AP 6 F9 Double Pass.jpg

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#41 Scott99

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 11:35 AM

Those blue tubes are just gorgeous!  A brief flirtation with non-white tubes that maybe ended too soon.  FYI, Roland has said that the 800 is roughly equivalent to the Mach1 in terms of stabililty & load-handling.


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#42 Jeff B

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 12:11 PM

Those blue tubes are just gorgeous!  A brief flirtation with non-white tubes that maybe ended too soon.  FYI, Roland has said that the 800 is roughly equivalent to the Mach1 in terms of stabililty & load-handling.

That would seem about right for the 800 as my Mach one easily carries the 178 F9 Blue tube.  

 

Jeff

 

Come, more pictures!

Attached Thumbnails

  • 178 F9 A.jpg
  • Incandescant, outside, 84 LPI.jpg

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#43 STE411

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 12:46 PM

IMG_0625.JPG

6"f12 706 mount. Roland told me about the 800 but it was more expensive and would take almost a year longer to get.

steve


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#44 STE411

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 01:01 PM

Hi Frank,

That's the 706 all right.

AP offered a retro fit for setting circles, I think for around $100 I didn't get them.

Are the ones in your photo from AP?

Thanks

steve


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#45 photiost

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 05:53 PM

Steve, that's a beautiful instrument indeed !!  :waytogo:

 

Yes I believe the circles are from AP.

 

We have spent many evenings observing with the 6in f/12 ... it never seizes to amaze me.



#46 photiost

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 05:54 PM

 

Those blue tubes are just gorgeous!  A brief flirtation with non-white tubes that maybe ended too soon.  FYI, Roland has said that the 800 is roughly equivalent to the Mach1 in terms of stabililty & load-handling.

That would seem about right for the 800 as my Mach one easily carries the 178 F9 Blue tube.  

 

Jeff

 

Come, more pictures!

 

 

Love your binoviewer setup !!

.



#47 CHASLX200

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 06:02 PM

So let's morph this thread a bit to "Post a picture of your vintage AP stuff".

 

I'll add this one, a 6" F9 Blue-Tube.  The lens photo was taken in double pass with a 133 LPI grate.  A very nice lens indeed.

 

Jeff

Same mount and scope i had back in 1999.  It was so front heavy i used a tube ring with a 5lb weight on the focuser end.



#48 STE411

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 03:02 PM

Thank you Frank!

Beautiful, really I'll tell her you said so. Make her day.

My opinion, beautiful to look through, looking at well....eh,

kinda showing her age.

Steve


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#49 TG

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 01:33 AM

Here's mine, same as Jeff's.

 

WFaXSxS.jpg

 

While the blue tubes may have been cute, they did have shortcomings:

 

  • "meh" focusers
  • nose heavy
  • a meagre 3 baffles
  • screw on dewshields which can give you a heart attack when putting on/taking off

I can't do anything about the baffles (they're welded in) but I have added a backplate from D&G which allowed me to put on a more recent vintage A-P focuser. To address the nose heaviness, I constructed a counterweight using Parallax rings and ScopeStuff screw-on shaft end-weights. I shortened the tube as well for binoviewing. I can now use 35mm Ultrascopics without a teleextender with Mark V binos. I almost never use the screw on dewshield, using a flexible AstroZap one instead.

 

Tanveer.


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#50 Scott99

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Posted 19 October 2016 - 11:57 AM

You could sell the blue-tube and pick up a 155mm f/7 with 4-inch focuser, that would fix all your concerns.  FWIW, my late-model AP160 is currently undergoing surgery to exchange the state-of-the-art 4" focuser with the 1990's greased 2.7", which will also significantly lighten the tube (5 lbs less) and make it nose-heavy.    

 

The larger TEC's are nose heavy because they use the 3.5" Starlight focuser which is only 6 pounds, the AP 4 inch focuser is 10.5 or 12 if you include the rotating collar assembly.

 

You could probably add an AP 4" focuser to your scope to balance it perfectly, but make it heavier to transport.   Re: the baffles - do you have problems with stray light?  Perhaps Uncle Rollo felt that 3 baffles would suffice.


Edited by Scott99, 19 October 2016 - 11:59 AM.



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