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Astrodon 36mm filter doesn't fit QHY filter wheel

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#1 ArkabPriorSol

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:45 AM

I thought I'd share my experience with you folks to get some more opinions on this matter, and also to serve as a warning to potential buyers of this combination of filters and filter wheel.

 

I recently purchased a QHYCFW2-M-UltraSlim 36mm*7 filter wheel, and also a set of Astrodon E-Series Tru-Balance Series II LRGB 36mm filters. I was able to install 6 out of 7 of the filters no problem, but the Astrodon luminance filter was very slightly too large to fit into the filter wheel well. I measured the filter wheel using a digital caliper to be 36.11mm, and the luminance filter to be 36.15mm. I contacted Don at Astrodon to see what could be done regarding this issue. Don said that the filter wheel maker (QHY) did not follow the same tolerances they follow. Unfortunately Astrodon doesn't have any luminance filters that are smaller than 36.10mm and apparently I'm out of luck. His recommendation was that I find a local machinist to enlarge the well. 

 

What irks me about this is that 6 out of 7 of my other filters fit no problem, and searching the web shows this isn't a common problem. There doesn't seem to be consensus as to who's tolerances (QHY's or Astrodon's) are the standard. I'm not pointing blame at either of these manufactures as I honestly don't know whether QHY's well of 36.11mm is unacceptably tight, or whether Astrodon's 36.15mm filter is unacceptably large. Either way, I feel helpless on what I can do here. Hiring a machinist to alter my wheel would probably cost the same as simply buying a new luminance filter.

 

Update: I want stress that Don's customer service in this matter has been top notch, replying to my questions via email very promptly. He mentioned that the next batch of filters will be machined to a slightly smaller diameter, and offered to replace my luminance filter once they are ready.


Edited by ArkabPriorSol, 01 December 2016 - 01:43 PM.


#2 souls33k3r

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:52 AM

ouch! good thing you came up with this thread mate and i can only sympathize with you in this matter. One part of me says that buying another Luminance filter might be a good choice because tinkering with the original design of QHY might mean further problems if not done correctly but then the other part of me suggests go for it. 

 

If i were you, i would look to try and return the Luminance filter back for a refund if possible or just sell it off on whatever you guys have in US and buy a different luminance filter.

 

Whichever way you choose, i hope it gets sorted out for you soon.



#3 ArkabPriorSol

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:01 PM

ouch! good thing you came up with this thread mate and i can only sympathize with you in this matter. One part of me says that buying another Luminance filter might be a good choice because tinkering with the original design of QHY might mean further problems if not done correctly but then the other part of me suggests go for it. 

 

If i were you, i would look to try and return the Luminance filter back for a refund if possible or just sell it off on whatever you guys have in US and buy a different luminance filter.

 

Whichever way you choose, i hope it gets sorted out for you soon.

Thanks Souls33k3r, I agree that altering the filter wheel is risky (and probably expensive). The reason why I contacted Don at Astrodon was to see if I could swap my filter, or get a refund for it. But he seems to be blaming QHY for this, and says I'm out of luck. I suppose I have to sell it on the market and get a different luminance filter. I feel like this tolerance issue should be addressed. Astrophotography equipment is extremely expensive, and I wish manufactures would communicate with each other and standardize these tolerances.



#4 Pauls72

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 12:35 PM

Will,

I have the same QHYCFW2-M-UltraSlim 36mm*7 filter wheel as you. I ordered this Baader 36mm filter set and they just arrived yesterday afternoon.

So I just unboxed them and measured them with a digital caliper. The sizes are between the 35.98mm for the smallest and 36.04mm for the largest. One of them is even a perfect 36.00mm

They all fit in the filter wheel with no problems. I would ask for a refund. You might ask him if there is something like a set of ISO or ANSI standards that spells out the dimensions and tolerances.

 

Awhile ago I bought a couple of replacement ST4 guider cables. The pin out was backwards and they didn't work. The vendor had the cajones to tell me the pin out on my SBIG ST402 camera was what was wrong. He just didn't get it that SBIG created the ST4 interface.

Paul


Edited by Pauls72, 01 December 2016 - 12:48 PM.

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#5 ArkabPriorSol

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 02:27 PM

Will,

I have the same QHYCFW2-M-UltraSlim 36mm*7 filter wheel as you. I ordered this Baader 36mm filter set and they just arrived yesterday afternoon.

So I just unboxed them and measured them with a digital caliper. The sizes are between the 35.98mm for the smallest and 36.04mm for the largest. One of them is even a perfect 36.00mm

They all fit in the filter wheel with no problems. I would ask for a refund. You might ask him if there is something like a set of ISO or ANSI standards that spells out the dimensions and tolerances.

 

Awhile ago I bought a couple of replacement ST4 guider cables. The pin out was backwards and they didn't work. The vendor had the cajones to tell me the pin out on my SBIG ST402 camera was what was wrong. He just didn't get it that SBIG created the ST4 interface.

Paul

Hey Paul, happy to hear you got your filters finally! looking forward to seeing some QHY163M color photos from ya. I get my adapter/extension tomorrow, and won't have a clear sky until next week it looks like. But I'll be sure to post my data/images asap!

 

As for the tolerance standards, I don't think there are any official standards yet. Astrodon designed the filters to work with SBIG FWs, but there are now lots of new astrophotography players in the field. It's awesome to see some of the innovations the new guys (QHY, ZWO, etc) are coming out with. But I imagine as this hobby becomes ever more accessible and popular it'll be even more important to have machining standards to follow. Astrodon Don makes a mighty fine product, and has offered excellent service so far.



#6 austin.grant

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 03:05 PM

That sounds close enough that some fine sandpaper and about 5 minutes of elbow grease could easily solve. It's no sweat to replace the filter, but equally quick and simple to just enlarge the opening.  



#7 Konihlav

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 03:57 PM

ArkabPriorSol: thank you for pointing this out and sorry to hear about your trouble (but sure that Don will help you out to resolve this issue :-) good to hear). Anyways, I had on order (second hand sale) Astrodon filters in 36mm diameter for my QHY2CFW-M-US, but since I have problems with the camera I did not play any more with the filter wheel (that I will most probably put on sale and had also canceled my plan (B) i.e. Baader filter set).

Do not worry, I have so much bad luck that nobody else has! so you are not alone in the **** screwed matrix :-(



#8 Jared

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 04:25 PM

Will your other filters fit in the slot for the luminance filter?  In other words, is your luminance filter a touch larger than the other filters, or is the hole a touch smaller?  It might give you some indication of who is at fault just by showing where the variability lies.  Doesn't change what you would do about it, of course.  If Don is willing to ship a new filter out of the next batch that will work, that's probably the best approach.  Personally, I'd prefer not to enlarge the slot in the filter wheel because it might result in additional reflections.  I assume that wheel is anodized or darkened somehow--if you enlarge that hole you will lose the anodization.  That could cause problems with reflections.  I don't believe Astrodon's filters have blackened edges so...



#9 ArkabPriorSol

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 04:41 PM

Will your other filters fit in the slot for the luminance filter?  In other words, is your luminance filter a touch larger than the other filters, or is the hole a touch smaller?  It might give you some indication of who is at fault just by showing where the variability lies.  Doesn't change what you would do about it, of course.  If Don is willing to ship a new filter out of the next batch that will work, that's probably the best approach.  Personally, I'd prefer not to enlarge the slot in the filter wheel because it might result in additional reflections.  I assume that wheel is anodized or darkened somehow--if you enlarge that hole you will lose the anodization.  That could cause problems with reflections.  I don't believe Astrodon's filters have blackened edges so...

Thanks Jared, I tried to insert the luminance filter into every other slot on the filter wheel, and none fit it. I also measured each filter slot with a caliper, and they only differed by about 0.03mm, from 36.08 to 36.11mm. The luminance filter is 36.15mm. I'm not going to take the risk in altering the wheel, if I screw it up that's $500 down the drain. I'm looking forward to Don's replacement filter. Until then looks like I'll be doing lots of narrowband imaging! Or perhaps I could try something like a RRGB, using red as the luminance. 



#10 ArkabPriorSol

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:47 PM

QHY provides this diagram which shows they machine the filter wells to 36.1mm. This is very consistent with the measurements I took.  QHYCFW2-M-US.jpg


Edited by ArkabPriorSol, 01 December 2016 - 10:48 PM.


#11 dvalid

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 07:43 AM

I thought I'd share my experience with you folks to get some more opinions on this matter, and also to serve as a warning to potential buyers of this combination of filters and filter wheel.

 

I recently purchased a QHYCFW2-M-UltraSlim 36mm*7 filter wheel, and also a set of Astrodon E-Series Tru-Balance Series II LRGB 36mm filters. I was able to install 6 out of 7 of the filters no problem, but the Astrodon luminance filter was very slightly too large to fit into the filter wheel well. I measured the filter wheel using a digital caliper to be 36.11mm, and the luminance filter to be 36.15mm. I contacted Don at Astrodon to see what could be done regarding this issue. Don said that the filter wheel maker (QHY) did not follow the same tolerances they follow. Unfortunately Astrodon doesn't have any luminance filters that are smaller than 36.10mm and apparently I'm out of luck. His recommendation was that I find a local machinist to enlarge the well. 

 

What irks me about this is that 6 out of 7 of my other filters fit no problem, and searching the web shows this isn't a common problem. There doesn't seem to be consensus as to who's tolerances (QHY's or Astrodon's) are the standard. I'm not pointing blame at either of these manufactures as I honestly don't know whether QHY's well of 36.11mm is unacceptably tight, or whether Astrodon's 36.15mm filter is unacceptably large. Either way, I feel helpless on what I can do here. Hiring a machinist to alter my wheel would probably cost the same as simply buying a new luminance filter.

 

Update: I want stress that Don's customer service in this matter has been top notch, replying to my questions via email very promptly. He mentioned that the next batch of filters will be machined to a slightly smaller diameter, and offered to replace my luminance filter once they are ready.

 

I went with Astronomik filter set (Deep-Sky + 6nm narrowband) for QHYCFW2-M-US, they fit perfectly. I'm very pleased with the quality, they are parfocal and seems perform on par with more expensive Astrodon Gen 2 (I have them in QSI660). 

 

David



#12 ekallgren

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 08:02 PM

I thought I'd share my experience with you folks to get some more opinions on this matter, and also to serve as a warning to potential buyers of this combination of filters and filter wheel.

 

I recently purchased a QHYCFW2-M-UltraSlim 36mm*7 filter wheel, and also a set of Astrodon E-Series Tru-Balance Series II LRGB 36mm filters. I was able to install 6 out of 7 of the filters no problem, but the Astrodon luminance filter was very slightly too large to fit into the filter wheel well. I measured the filter wheel using a digital caliper to be 36.11mm, and the luminance filter to be 36.15mm. I contacted Don at Astrodon to see what could be done regarding this issue. Don said that the filter wheel maker (QHY) did not follow the same tolerances they follow. Unfortunately Astrodon doesn't have any luminance filters that are smaller than 36.10mm and apparently I'm out of luck. His recommendation was that I find a local machinist to enlarge the well. 

 

What irks me about this is that 6 out of 7 of my other filters fit no problem, and searching the web shows this isn't a common problem. There doesn't seem to be consensus as to who's tolerances (QHY's or Astrodon's) are the standard. I'm not pointing blame at either of these manufactures as I honestly don't know whether QHY's well of 36.11mm is unacceptably tight, or whether Astrodon's 36.15mm filter is unacceptably large. Either way, I feel helpless on what I can do here. Hiring a machinist to alter my wheel would probably cost the same as simply buying a new luminance filter.

 

Update: I want stress that Don's customer service in this matter has been top notch, replying to my questions via email very promptly. He mentioned that the next batch of filters will be machined to a slightly smaller diameter, and offered to replace my luminance filter once they are ready.

I have the same filter wheel and had the same problem. The fix for me was to remove the sticker on the side of the filter. Then it slipped right in.

Good luck.


Edited by ekallgren, 02 December 2016 - 08:03 PM.


#13 ArkabPriorSol

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 08:32 PM

 

I thought I'd share my experience with you folks to get some more opinions on this matter, and also to serve as a warning to potential buyers of this combination of filters and filter wheel.

 

I recently purchased a QHYCFW2-M-UltraSlim 36mm*7 filter wheel, and also a set of Astrodon E-Series Tru-Balance Series II LRGB 36mm filters. I was able to install 6 out of 7 of the filters no problem, but the Astrodon luminance filter was very slightly too large to fit into the filter wheel well. I measured the filter wheel using a digital caliper to be 36.11mm, and the luminance filter to be 36.15mm. I contacted Don at Astrodon to see what could be done regarding this issue. Don said that the filter wheel maker (QHY) did not follow the same tolerances they follow. Unfortunately Astrodon doesn't have any luminance filters that are smaller than 36.10mm and apparently I'm out of luck. His recommendation was that I find a local machinist to enlarge the well. 

 

What irks me about this is that 6 out of 7 of my other filters fit no problem, and searching the web shows this isn't a common problem. There doesn't seem to be consensus as to who's tolerances (QHY's or Astrodon's) are the standard. I'm not pointing blame at either of these manufactures as I honestly don't know whether QHY's well of 36.11mm is unacceptably tight, or whether Astrodon's 36.15mm filter is unacceptably large. Either way, I feel helpless on what I can do here. Hiring a machinist to alter my wheel would probably cost the same as simply buying a new luminance filter.

 

Update: I want stress that Don's customer service in this matter has been top notch, replying to my questions via email very promptly. He mentioned that the next batch of filters will be machined to a slightly smaller diameter, and offered to replace my luminance filter once they are ready.

I have the same filter wheel and had the same problem. The fix for me was to remove the sticker on the side of the filter. Then it slipped right in.

Good luck.

 

Smart thinking! I had tried that too, but unfortunately it was still too large. I'm debating whether I should wait out for the replacement filter (maybe a couple months), or just sell all these Astrodons and get Baader filters. I'm dying to try out my camera, I'm impatient!



#14 billdan

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 10:51 PM

Forgive a newbie question, why can't you take luminence subs with no filter in the well?

 

That's what people do when they have no filters with mono cameras isn't it.  

 

I'm own a OSC so I don't have experience of mono imaging.


Edited by billdan, 03 December 2016 - 10:59 PM.


#15 Rick J

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 12:14 AM

OSC cameras have built in IR blocking filters.  Mono cameras don't so with a refractor you will need to add that filter or else the uncorrected IR will hurt the image.  With a reflector that isn't a problem since refraction isn't involved.  But even then a clear filter is usually used as without it the glass will change the focus point usually about 1mm fore each 3mm of glass thickness.  See this link for more on the subject.

 

Rick



#16 billdan

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 02:41 AM

Thanks Rick for explaining that to me, I was aware of the focus change but not about IR effects. That link was a good read and very informative, thank you.

Cheers

Bill

 



#17 QHYCCD

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Posted 04 December 2016 - 05:10 AM

Hello,

 

         Don't worry about it. If your filter is slightly larger than 36mm standard, Please contact with us and we can do a customized disk to you for it.  The filter disk is much easy to do than filters.  Just make a help ticket on our website and tell us the details size of your fitlers.

 

 

Best regards,

Qiu Hongyun


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#18 GeneralT001

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 06:08 PM

Hmm, I just had a similar issue with my new set of Astrodon 36mm LRGB. But I was putting them into a SX mini USB 5 position carousel. Three of them would not fit initially, the only way I was able to get them in was by removing the sticker on the side of the filter then they went in "snugly". I know how this is very frustrating.

 

In my mind if these are 36mm filters then the tolerance needs to be better than 36.15 - that's too far off the mark.



#19 hfjacinto

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 10:51 PM

The baader 36MM worked fine, everyone fit perfectly.



#20 microstar

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:22 AM

I had this problem some years ago with AstroDon filters and an Atik EFW2 FW. Same response from Don - it was the fault of the manufacturer. Fortunately Atik responded very quickly and send me a carousel with slightly larger holes to accommodate the AstroDon filters.

As Qiu has offered - it easier to customize the carousel. I might end up in the same situation since I just ordered a QHY163M and QHY FW that I was planning to use with my AstroDon filters. Good to know that Qiu will customize a wheel if I run into problems. We are very fortunate to have manufacturers that are so accommodating. Thanks!

...Keith
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#21 nebulasaurus

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 09:40 AM

I have to say I'm very dissapointed by AstroDons response to this. 

 

Bottom line from a mechanical engineering perspective is that if the spec on a drawing says 36mm then the hole has to be slightly larger than 36mm and whatever goes into the hole has to be slightly smaller than 36mm.

 

Since 36.15 is significantly larger than 36mm from a machining standpoint AstroDon should have immediately offered a new and correctly sized filter.  0.15mm oversize is way too large.  Him blaming it on the filter wheel is a huge negative to me ever doing business with him.  And this from someone who is in the market for a set of narrow band filters, although in 1.25" versions.

 

J.


Edited by nebulasaurus, 06 January 2017 - 10:09 AM.

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#22 microstar

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 12:13 PM

Although according to the OP, Don is moving to machine the next batch of L filters slightly smaller so maybe this will become a non-issue in the future. In the meantime both Atik and now QHY have been willing to adjust their wheels to accommodate the oversize Astrodon filters (thanks again!). However I did have this problem with the Atik wheel about 5 years ago and had the same interaction with Don as the OP, so the problem with the filters not fitting some wheels has been around for a while - action to correct it on Don's side hasn't been swift but at least a resolution may be in the works. At the very least it's something to be aware of when ordering - thanks to the OP for bringing this to people's attention.

...Keith



#23 gquinzi

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 11:20 AM

I thought I'd share my experience with you folks to get some more opinions on this matter, and also to serve as a warning to potential buyers of this combination of filters and filter wheel.

 

I recently purchased a QHYCFW2-M-UltraSlim 36mm*7 filter wheel, and also a set of Astrodon E-Series Tru-Balance Series II LRGB 36mm filters. I was able to install 6 out of 7 of the filters no problem, but the Astrodon luminance filter was very slightly too large to fit into the filter wheel well. I measured the filter wheel using a digital caliper to be 36.11mm, and the luminance filter to be 36.15mm. I contacted Don at Astrodon to see what could be done regarding this issue. Don said that the filter wheel maker (QHY) did not follow the same tolerances they follow. Unfortunately Astrodon doesn't have any luminance filters that are smaller than 36.10mm and apparently I'm out of luck. His recommendation was that I find a local machinist to enlarge the well. 

 

What irks me about this is that 6 out of 7 of my other filters fit no problem, and searching the web shows this isn't a common problem. There doesn't seem to be consensus as to who's tolerances (QHY's or Astrodon's) are the standard. I'm not pointing blame at either of these manufactures as I honestly don't know whether QHY's well of 36.11mm is unacceptably tight, or whether Astrodon's 36.15mm filter is unacceptably large. Either way, I feel helpless on what I can do here. Hiring a machinist to alter my wheel would probably cost the same as simply buying a new luminance filter.

 

Update: I want stress that Don's customer service in this matter has been top notch, replying to my questions via email very promptly. He mentioned that the next batch of filters will be machined to a slightly smaller diameter, and offered to replace my luminance filter once they are ready.

Had this very problem with a single Astrodon 36mm luminance filter to an SX carousel.  The fit was so bad it caused some chipping at the very edges :(.  Don worked with me and located a replacement filter with better tolerance. Unfortunately, Astrodon will not cover chips so I ended up paying for a single lum filter at a 20% discount. 



#24 gdd

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 12:02 PM

Shouldn't the tolerance standards include whether the machined object is a hole or something that fits in a hole? The hole must be oversized and the plug must be undersized compared to the nominal size, obviously. That would make Astrodon wrong in this case.

 

Gale


Edited by gdd, 07 January 2017 - 12:03 PM.


#25 gquinzi

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Posted 07 January 2017 - 08:18 PM

I have to say I'm very dissapointed by AstroDons response to this. 

 

Bottom line from a mechanical engineering perspective is that if the spec on a drawing says 36mm then the hole has to be slightly larger than 36mm and whatever goes into the hole has to be slightly smaller than 36mm.

 

Since 36.15 is significantly larger than 36mm from a machining standpoint AstroDon should have immediately offered a new and correctly sized filter.  0.15mm oversize is way too large.  Him blaming it on the filter wheel is a huge negative to me ever doing business with him.  And this from someone who is in the market for a set of narrow band filters, although in 1.25" versions.

 

J.

Here's part of Don's response from when I presented him with the issue and filter measurement (36.15mm).

 

"There is NEVER a problem with FLI, SBIG, QSI and others.  Some other filter manufacturers have made their counterbores way to tight and these tend to be from Europe.   In short, we are not responsible for edge chips or the design tolerances of third party filter wheels.  Our filters, as you know, leave Astrodon multiply inspected and are perfect when received." 

 

So once I gave Don the measurement, he located a luminance filter that measured 36.06mm and that of course dropped right into the carousel filter well without issue.  The other 6 filters are totally okay btw. It's just a shame that we the consumer end up paying instead of the manufacturer making good on an issue such as this. I will say this, Don at least provided a discount towards the purchase of another filter. 


Edited by gquinzi, 07 January 2017 - 08:34 PM.



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