223 replies to this topic

[Richard Whalen]

Hi Ed,

 

Thanks for your reply. Better correction, ability to use say a 7mm verses a 4mm for planetary use without a Barlow, ease of pointing, less other aberrations, flatter fov, increased contrast etc. Nobody but AOK Swiss making longer fl apo,s, know it is a small nitch market, but one I think there might be some customers for. Not all of us need portability, some have piers out in the yard or observatories to stick a longer scope in/on. Takes me all of 5 minutes to set up my 6" f12 or 5" f15 achromats. My ultimate scope in the future would be a 235mm f12 inside my observatory. Until then, a 5" or 6" f12 to f15 super apo would be great. If that is something u might consider in the future, let me know, I'll give u a call. 

 

Hi Ed,

 

Still enjoying the 8" f15.5 you and Yuri made for me. Any plans for longer fl apo,s?

 

Richard Whalen

Hi Richard! I am glad you still have it. I remember you and the "special" label for your MAK. 

Why do you need the longer APO? For better correction? 

It was good to hear from you.

Regards,

Ed

 

[Edward Try]

I have a minor concern about the name: there is already a popular vendor called Agena Astro http://agenaastro.com/. It's possible to be confused. The was an Owl Optics and Owl Astronomy at one time. But that's for another thread.

It would be interesting to offer unconventional telescopes from time to time in addition to the main product line.

I am not sure what "Agena" means but the word "Agema" carries very deep meaning: it meant the best, central part of Macedonian phalanx in antique Greece. Later it became a word to emphasize something central and important. Antique history is my second love...but only after Optics! 

[rfic1]

Ed,

Is the glass available for the 180mm? Have you set a price?

[Edward Try]

 

Hi Ed,

 

Thanks for your reply. Better correction, ability to use say a 7mm verses a 4mm for planetary use without a Barlow, ease of pointing, less other aberrations, flatter fov, increased contrast etc. Nobody but AOK Swiss making longer fl apo,s, know it is a small nitch market, but one I think there might be some customers for. Not all of us need portability, some have piers out in the yard or observatories to stick a longer scope in/on. Takes me all of 5 minutes to set up my 6" f12 or 5" f15 achromats. My ultimate scope in the future would be a 235mm f12 inside my observatory. Until then, a 5" or 6" f12 to f15 super apo would be great. If that is something u might consider in the future, let me know, I'll give u a call. 

 

Hi Ed,

 

Still enjoying the 8" f15.5 you and Yuri made for me. Any plans for longer fl apo,s?

 

Richard Whalen

Hi Richard! I am glad you still have it. I remember you and the "special" label for your MAK. 

Why do you need the longer APO? For better correction? 

It was good to hear from you.

Regards,

Ed

 

 

Richard,

I think it is a little pricey for solving this small problem. In my design it will not add significant correction but the weight and size. Or maybe you want a personal one again like your MAK? 

Seriously, we don't plan to make any long APO yet. I will let you know if I change my mind.   

Best regards,

Ed

[Edward Try]

Ed,

Is the glass available for the 180mm? Have you set a price?

I am still waiting for the confirmation... 

[nicknacknock]

 

Edward,

 

You came out with a 130mm which is more or less what everybody noted as lacking for visual in doublet fluorite scopes as there were a couple of threads discussing the Takahashi FC series and how a 120mm fluorite doublet would we awesome (hey, don't mind the extra 10mm aperture), but I must be brutally honest - the weight is a lot.

 

I will echo Derek's feedback - a smaller diameter FTF, a thinner aluminum OTA, lighter rings and dovetail could shave a LOT of weight from this scope, reduce the cost and make it more appealing to visual only people. This is by no means a criticism of the product which looks awesome! It's just something for you to consider so that it appeals to visual only amateurs. 

 

I also note that the price is a bit on the high side, but it depends on extras  e.t.c. I suppose, as the preliminary price you quote for the 130mm is near TEC 140mm territory - a scope you are intimately familiar with in terms of color correction, weight of telescope and reputation in the market.

 

However, I will close this by saying that I will be in the market myself next year for a 120mm - 140mm refractor and I'll be keeping an eye on your offerings 

 

Best of luck!

Nick,

I appreciated your comments and suggestions! Thank you!

Actually, I was surprised myself with the weight but was honest with you and posted actual readings. Today I checked it again and got different readings, so the scale went to trash… The updated OTA weight (no rings, plates and handle): 130mm – 9.5 kg, 150mm – 12.8 kg.

Let’s go into some nuances about the weight: the objective required very tight tolerances to achieve this outstanding level of correction. This is why we use complex lens cell that added some weight - a price to make this correction possible. I agreed about the focuser - we planned to make a smaller one for 130mm in the future. Currently only 3.5-inch focuser is available that gives better balance to the tube and is universal for both visual and digital. If I use 2.5-inch focuser for 130 mm model -  you will not be able use it with FF for digital. Also, the focuser handles the movement without any radial deviation (good advantage) and required solid parts for that. This feature added some weight too – another sacrifice to have a better performance.

Price: Raw optical material dictates the cost for fluorite telescopes. Remember how much was TEC110FL? My price is in the same range but with extra 20mm of the aperture. Fluorite cost is about three times more that ED glass. This is why compare TEC140 cost is not “apple to apple”. Please compare my cost with fluorite telescopes and you will see that I am very competitive. Takahashi had this price level many years ago.

Thank you again for good wishes and I will be happy to have you as my customer!

Edward

 

Ed,

 

Thanks for the detailed reply. It's only by asking questions that one gets detailed answers. I find your response on the money for every point you make!

[suburbanskies]

Ah, that explains it.  I wondered how your polystrehl graph looks so amazing compared to triplet apos.  Incredible, really!

 

Can you tell us how much real life or laboratory testing has been performed on the lens cell design?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

 

...Let’s go into some nuances about the weight: the objective required very tight tolerances to achieve this outstanding level of correction. This is why we use complex lens cell that added some weight - a price to make this correction possible....

 

Edward

 

[Richard Whalen]

 

 

Hi Ed,

 

Thanks for your reply. Better correction, ability to use say a 7mm verses a 4mm for planetary use without a Barlow, ease of pointing, less other aberrations, flatter fov, increased contrast etc. Nobody but AOK Swiss making longer fl apo,s, know it is a small nitch market, but one I think there might be some customers for. Not all of us need portability, some have piers out in the yard or observatories to stick a longer scope in/on. Takes me all of 5 minutes to set up my 6" f12 or 5" f15 achromats. My ultimate scope in the future would be a 235mm f12 inside my observatory. Until then, a 5" or 6" f12 to f15 super apo would be great. If that is something u might consider in the future, let me know, I'll give u a call. 

 

Hi Ed,

 

Still enjoying the 8" f15.5 you and Yuri made for me. Any plans for longer fl apo,s?

 

Richard Whalen

Hi Richard! I am glad you still have it. I remember you and the "special" label for your MAK. 

Why do you need the longer APO? For better correction? 

It was good to hear from you.

Regards,

Ed

 

 

Richard,

I think it is a little pricey for solving this small problem. In my design it will not add significant correction but the weight and size. Or maybe you want a personal one again like your MAK? 

Seriously, we don't plan to make any long APO yet. I will let you know if I change my mind.   

Best regards,

Ed

 

Perhaps! stay in touch. For those of you considering a scope from Ed, the scope he made for me 16 years ago has the finest optics I've ever looked through before or since. 

[Edward Try]

Ah,... are you talking about a drop test???

ok, you got it - there are two parameters that are important and we managed to keep them with max accuracy. 

 

 

Ah, that explains it.  I wondered how your polystrehl graph looks so amazing compared to triplet apos.  Incredible, really!

 

Can you tell us how much real life or laboratory testing has been performed on the lens cell design?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

 

...Let’s go into some nuances about the weight: the objective required very tight tolerances to achieve this outstanding level of correction. This is why we use complex lens cell that added some weight - a price to make this correction possible....

 

Edward

 

 

[nicknacknock]

Ed,

 

I feel the need to ask. How come you don't make a 120mm doublet to compete with the Tak TSA120 but for visual only? Along with a lighter tube and focuser (2.5" FTF would be great), it would be a dream come true for many of us visual people. I really don't need a triplet, but I do want a larger aperture than my Tak FC76DC and my Borg 90FL.

 

While I am considering the Tak TSA 120, I am all for considering a 120mm doublet of similar focal ratio if you decide to come out with one. If you can get the colour correction at a larger aperture and shorter focal length, it should be much easier and hopefully quite less expensive to produce.

 

Just thinking out loud here... 

[Lana Try]

nicknacknock, on 10 Dec 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Ed,
 
I feel the need to ask. How come you don't make a 120mm doublet to compete with the Tak TSA120 but for visual only? Along with a lighter tube and focuser (2.5" FTF would be great), it would be a dream come true for many of us visual people. I really don't need a triplet, but I do want a larger aperture than my Tak FC76DC and my Borg 90FL.
 
While I am considering the Tak TSA 120, I am all for considering a 120mm doublet of similar focal ratio if you decide to come out with one. If you can get the colour correction at a larger aperture and shorter focal length, it should be much easier and hopefully quite less expensive to produce.
 
Just thinking out loud here... 

Hi Nick,
Let me take over from Ed here.
We can consider your wish and make 120 mm fluorite doublet happen. It will be visual only! Edwards' SD design has a great potential - look at the Strehl graph below he calculated today for 120 SD F9. Already like it??

This can happen under one condition: we can start a special run but the min quantity has to be 25 units. Only with at least 25 upfront orders we can give you affordable price. Unfortunately a smaller run doesn't make sense due to the price that  is not going to be attractive for you in this case as we have to do production set up for a new model.  

Who is interested - they can choose the parameters they want: F8, F9... 

Let me know if you have any further questions,

Lana

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by Lana Try, 10 December 2016 - 02:15 PM.

[jeremiah2229]

 

nicknacknock, on 10 Dec 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Ed,
 
I feel the need to ask. How come you don't make a 120mm doublet to compete with the Tak TSA120 but for visual only? Along with a lighter tube and focuser (2.5" FTF would be great), it would be a dream come true for many of us visual people. I really don't need a triplet, but I do want a larger aperture than my Tak FC76DC and my Borg 90FL.
 
While I am considering the Tak TSA 120, I am all for considering a 120mm doublet of similar focal ratio if you decide to come out with one. If you can get the colour correction at a larger aperture and shorter focal length, it should be much easier and hopefully quite less expensive to produce.
 
Just thinking out loud here... 

Hi Nick,
Let me take over from Ed here.
We can consider your wish and make 120 mm fluorite doublet happen. It will be visual only! Edwards' SD design has a great potential - look at the Strehl graph below he calculated today for 120 SD F9. Already like it??

This can happen under one condition: we can start a special run but the min quantity has to be 25 units. Only with at least 25 upfront orders we can give you affordable price. Unfortunately a smaller run doesn't make sense due to the price that  is not going to be attractive for you in this case as we have to do production set up for a new model.  

Who is interested - they can choose the parameters they want: F8, F9... 

Let me know if you have any further questions,

Lana

 

I can go for the F9...

[nicknacknock]

I would be happy with f7.5. I like a focal length of 900mm in terms of exit pupil and magnification ranges with my eyepieces. FTF 3035, no more than 29" with dew shield retracted, OTA outside diameter 125mm, collimatable lens cell. OTA weight no more than 13 lbs.

 

But it all would come down to the price really. The price of a TSA 120 in Europe is the equivalent of buying it in the USA for $4,000. While this may not be achievable (I have no idea), at least you now have a firm ceiling for a price for Europe for such a telescope. Lana, I am not trying to undercut prices or "push" for a specific price, but from my perspective this would be my price point.

 

I consider communication very important in such matters as it helps vendors gauge the market. One example is Markus Ludes of APM who has introduced a number of products in the market based on feedback from this very forum.

 

I think I speak for all members here on CN when I say that we all welcome the products you plan to introduce into the market and we sincerely appreciate it that you are even willing to consider a custom run of scopes 

 

25 is not a large number - I hope. Let's see if other members show an interest...

[skybsd]

Hi,

 

 

Ed,

Is the glass available for the 180mm? Have you set a price?

I am still waiting for the confirmation... 

 

I'd also be interested in updates for the180mm f/9 as as well as more information on the eventual OTA weight and options for FT focusers, please. 

 

Thanks..,

 

skybsd

[Lana Try]

I would be happy with f7.5. I like a focal length of 900mm in terms of exit pupil and magnification ranges with my eyepieces. FTF 3035, no more than 29" with dew shield retracted, OTA outside diameter 125mm, collimatable lens cell. OTA weight no more than 13 lbs.

 

But it all would come down to the price really. The price of a TSA 120 in Europe is the equivalent of buying it in the USA for $4,000. While this may not be achievable (I have no idea), at least you now have a firm ceiling for a price for Europe for such a telescope. Lana, I am not trying to undercut prices or "push" for a specific price, but from my perspective this would be my price point.

 

I consider communication very important in such matters as it helps vendors gauge the market. One example is Markus Ludes of APM who has introduced a number of products in the market based on feedback from this very forum.

 

I think I speak for all members here on CN when I say that we all welcome the products you plan to introduce into the market and we sincerely appreciate it that you are even willing to consider a custom run of scopes 

 

25 is not a large number - I hope. Let's see if other members show an interest...

Nick,

Let's keep in touch about this topic. Ed and I still think that universal option will have more demand on the market, this is why we started with models that support both visual and digital.

Thanks,

Lana  

[mogur]

LOL. A lot of people will say they are interested in a certain scope, but how many will put down a $1000 deposit? Once made many lose interest when they see the price. Other excuses are popular too. A supplier needs to gauge the market based on whether other similar items have sold well or not. Certainly don't base your product line on a few comments made here!

[Lana Try]

The estimated weight for AGEMA 180 SD is 18-19 kg.

[nicknacknock]

@ Mogur:

 

We are all entitled to our opinion of course. However as I clearly stated in my post, we have many examples of products introduced exactly because of comments in this forum.

 

In my case, I wanted to present the vendor with my reasoning why I place a $4,000 price tag on a 120mm f7.5 OTA. I would actually be willing to go a bit higher to be honest. But unless we start providing feedback, how will vendors know how to react to our needs?

 

I for one would be interested in a 120mm f7.5 fluorite doublet APO. I am stating it for the record. I have no problem putting down a deposit if there would be such a run, but I also understand the vendor's position that they want to first come out with a product that can also be applied towards AP.

 

@ Lana & Ed:

 

Despite the current lineup being outside the range of specifications I would like for my personal scope, I look forward to seeing future designs you may come up with. Your two initial offerings are something new to the market and I hope that there is sufficient demand to make you consider expanding the range. Best of luck!

[BillP]

We can consider your wish and make 120 mm fluorite doublet happen. It will be visual only! Edwards' SD design has a great potential - look at the Strehl graph below he calculated today for 120 SD F9. Already like it??

 

This can happen under one condition: we can start a special run but the min quantity has to be 25 units. Only with at least 25 upfront orders we can give you affordable price.

 

 

Hmmm.  This got my interest.  What would be the anticipated cost approximately for a 120mm Fluorite doublet like this?

Edited by BillP, 15 December 2016 - 02:01 PM.

[jeremiah2229]

If the 120mm is doable, when/where will you notify potential buyers for the deposit? And I'm assuming the 25 needed will come from the deposits?

 

Thank you...

[Lana Try]

120 SD model is not in our regular production, we have to setup the tooling for optics and mechanics. All the tooling expenses for this special run will be distributed for small quantity units, so I think the price will be most likely higher than market price. Everybody who is serious about that please send your request to mail@agemaoptics.com When we collect 25+ inquiries, agree the system parameters, price and receive deposits - we can start the setup.     

[jeremiah2229]

I probably missed this somewhere but what kind of warranty is offered on the scopes?

 

Thanks again...

[Lana Try]

I probably missed this somewhere but what kind of warranty is offered on the scopes?

 

Thanks again...

Warranty is 5 years on optics and mechanics (no defects under normal use). No warranty on modified, misused, abused... units. Repair is provided on individual basis if needed.      

[Lana Try]

We have a price available for AGEMA 180 SD F9, $16,500. We need 8-10 people for the first run. Please send me your request if interested, http://mail@agemaoptics.com .

Thank you, 

Lana

Edited by Lana Try, 17 December 2016 - 04:14 PM.

[jeremiah2229]

 

I probably missed this somewhere but what kind of warranty is offered on the scopes?

 

Thanks again...

Warranty is 5 years on optics and mechanics (no defects under normal use). No warranty on modified, misused, abused... units. Repair is provided on individual basis if needed.      

 

Thank you, Lana.

 

Please clarify this theoretical scenario...

 

I replace the focuser and the coatings start to fail on the glass, the warranty is void since I replaced the focuser?

 

Thanks...