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APM 10x50 ED, APM 16x70 ED, APM 20x70 ED vs Lunt 10x50, Lunt 16x70 vs Pentax 20x60 SP WP

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#1 denis0007dl

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 10:17 AM

Today my pocket with new APM ED 10x50, 16x70 and 20x70 binoculars and Lunts 10x50 and 16x70 are shipped from APM.
I have here Pentax 20x60 which I like a lot.

Will post here my impressions and findings.

Kind regards and all best
Denis, binoviewers expert
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#2 garret

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 12:53 PM

 

Today my pocket with new APM ED 10x50

This bino is overpriced (590 Euro including P&P), save some Euro's more and you could have the original: the Fujinon FMT SX 2 10x50.

 

Garret

 


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#3 denis0007dl

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 01:13 PM

Fuji does not have ED glasses, thats huge difference for start.

#4 trener

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 01:29 PM

So what? Nikon SE also does not have ED glass but still is an excellent binocular with almost not visible CA. A properly designed achromatic dublet can produce a great sharp view, just like Fujinon fmt and Nikon SE do.



#5 garret

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 01:48 PM

Most color aberration is coming from the eyepiece not the lens (lateral color).

Holger Merlitz  tested the Fujinon 10x50 and as the 'Rover' labeled Lunt 10x50 here: http://www.holgermer...over_10x50.html

He conclude about CA:

 

Chromatic aberration (CA): Both binoculars show some color fringing about the edges of objects, whenever these objects are shifted away from the center of field. This is a lateral chromatic aberration, and it is quite visible especially through the Sky Rover. Obviously, none of these binoculars are equipped with low dispersion (ED) glasses. In daylight observations, these color fringes can turn annoying at times, but during astronomical observations they are of little impact. If bright objects like the moon, or bright planets such as Venus or Jupiter are shifted near the edge of field, then the color becomes obvious. As long as these objects remain centered, CA remains absent.

CA remains absent in the center...

For the best suppression of CA you need something much better then basic ED glass, fluorite example as used by Zeiss and Swarovski... and also special glass inside the eyepieces.

 

Garret

 

 

 



#6 dgoldb

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 01:54 PM

 

 

Today my pocket with new APM ED 10x50

This bino is overpriced (590 Euro including P&P), save some Euro's more and you could have the original: the Fujinon FMT SX 2 10x50.

 

Garret

 

Unless I am mistaken, the APM has more eye relief, which has always been a drawback of the Fuji.  I found the Fuji incredibly uncomfortable, although I understand others enjoy it.  



#7 denis0007dl

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 02:00 PM

Yes, Fuji is not even close comfortable as Lunt / APM, and Lunt is much cheaper than Fuji, with approx same optical performance as Lunt.

APM with ED glass should show bit sharper image, less CA (while in Lunt CA are not bothersome), and pict should be just tad brighter.

Thats what I notice when I compared Hunter 8x56 vs Hunter 8x56 ED, Hunter 10x56 vs Hunter 10x56 ED, and Hunter 12x56 vs Hunter 12x56 ED.

Pict was brighter, sharper, contrastier, and much less false colours.

I hope such difference will be presented when I compare Lunt 16x70 vs APM 16x70 ED.



#8 Grimnir

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 04:32 AM

 

 

 

Today my pocket with new APM ED 10x50

This bino is overpriced (590 Euro including P&P), save some Euro's more and you could have the original: the Fujinon FMT SX 2 10x50.

 

Garret

 

Unless I am mistaken, the APM has more eye relief, which has always been a drawback of the Fuji.  I found the Fuji incredibly uncomfortable, although I understand others enjoy it.  

 

The Fuji 10x50 FMT-SX2 has substantial eye relief, it is certainly not a drawback. I do not wear spectacles and would prefer it to have a little less.

 

Graham



#9 garret

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 05:38 AM

 

The Fuji 10x50 FMT-SX2 has substantial eye relief, it is certainly not a drawback

Manufacturer spec: 19.8 mm, but the eyecup height for both APM and Fujinon have only two settings, could be a drawback.

 

Garret



#10 Grimnir

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 05:55 AM

 

 

The Fuji 10x50 FMT-SX2 has substantial eye relief, it is certainly not a drawback

Manufacturer spec: 19.8 mm, but the eyecup height for both APM and Fujinon have only two settings, could be a drawback.

 

Garret

 

Edz gives the usable ER at only 13mm but it feels much more to me.

 

Graham



#11 Mad Matt

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 06:53 AM

With my 16x70 Fuji (same eyepieces as the 10x50) I can just barely get in the full FOV when I uncomfortably mash them into my face. The Lunt/APM 10x50 are much more comfortable and have noticably more eye relief.

Edited by Mad Matt, 08 January 2017 - 06:54 AM.


#12 Grimnir

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 07:35 AM

With my 16x70 Fuji (same eyepieces as the 10x50) I can just barely get in the full FOV when I uncomfortably mash them into my face. The Lunt/APM 10x50 are much more comfortable and have noticably more eye relief.

I can see the full FOV very easily in the 10x50 FMT-SX2 even with the eyecups extended and not touching my face.

 

Graham



#13 Mad Matt

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 09:29 AM

I deap eye sockets and a predominate bridge. The bigger the outer diameter of the eyepiece is, the more eye relief my face requires :)

#14 Rich V.

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 11:34 AM

I don't think the eyepieces of the 10x50 FMT are the same as the 16x70FMTs; the eye relief of the 16x is noticeably shorter.

 

The MS 16x70s clearly have more eye relief than the FMTs.

 

Rich



#15 Mad Matt

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 12:09 PM

I don't think the eyepieces of the 10x50 FMT are the same as the 16x70FMTs; the eye relief of the 16x is noticeably shorter.

The MS 16x70s clearly have more eye relief than the FMTs.

Rich

Rich and Grimnir, you are correct. Sorry I don't know where that assumption on my side came from but looking at pictures it is obvious the 10x50 FMT-SX2 have different eyepieces then the 16x70 SX2. Sorry for the confusion.

Edited by Mad Matt, 08 January 2017 - 12:09 PM.


#16 dgoldb

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Posted 08 January 2017 - 04:44 PM

Either way - the Fuji have comfort issues for some and it is well documented.  For those it works for - great.  For those it doesn't - there is a market opening. 



#17 denis0007dl

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:44 AM

Items just arrived....

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Edited by denis0007dl, 11 January 2017 - 08:52 AM.

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#18 denis0007dl

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:47 AM

..mand more...also Pentax 20x60 SP vs Lunt 20x70 ED...

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#19 rockethead26

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 08:50 AM

Looking forward to your comments on the APMs.



#20 denis0007dl

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:50 PM

Ok, daytime and night test done.

 

Daytime: main targest were roof antennas and chimney vs perfectly blue sky, tiles, buliding corners vs sky, trees vs blus sky background, boats and boat masts vs beautifull blue Adriatic sea, all with strong Sun on sky.

 

Lunts are excellent binoculars, but when I compare them vs new APM ES APOs, there was very obvious difference, where ED APOs shows superior colour correction, with much more fine details seen, and picture seems to be more natural look, chrisp and clean.

 

Now, interesting test my lovely Pentax 20x60 SP, which I favorize very much, vs APM 20x70 ED APO: Lunt is really superbly better, in terms of colour correction, resolution, details, FOV, center sharpness.

 

 

Night test: here happened something what I expect: some more stars were visible in APMs, as well sky background seems darker, wih better contrast, were stars were real diamonds.

Lunt on Venus shows some litle amount of false colours.

On APMs, I couldnt see any false colours, which is very impressive.

 

Pentax 20x60 SP vs APM 20x70 ED APO: yes, more stars visible, and Venus superior vs Pentax which show fair amount of false colours, and when I put focus on one side, I see red colour around Planet, and when I tuen focus on other side, I see blue.

 

In test so far I did not bother with edge correction, but it is very very good what I remember.

All Lunts and APMs are very comfortable, even APM 20x70.

 

All in all, I am very satisfied with new APM ED APOs. 

Markus, thank you for bringing these for sale, so we astronomers, and nature watchers can really enjoy much more than ever before!


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#21 denis0007dl

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:56 PM

Oh, I just checked price on APM site: dont know if prices are error, Markus lowered prices a lot, so grab them untill Markus realise that they worth much more  :grin:



#22 denis0007dl

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:01 PM

Just to mention some differences:

 

***new APM binos have blue ring arround objectives, while Lunts have red ones

***other phisicall characteristics are same

***Lunt 10x50 and 16x70 binos have green coloured objectives, vs previous blue ones

***here both APMs and Lunts have greenish colour of objectives, where Lunts have more greenish



#23 denis0007dl

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 02:31 PM

And here is Lunt 16x70 vs AMP 16x70....

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#24 Mr. Bill

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 03:13 PM

Thanks for the side by side comparisons... :waytogo:

 

Now I'd like a side by side of the new APO vs semi APO APM 100mms

 

:question:


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#25 trener

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 03:36 PM

In test so far I did not bother with edge correction, but it is very very good what I remember.

Could you make a comparison of edge sharpness Lunt 16x70 vs APM 16x70? Lunt is quite impresive here.




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