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New APM 100 90° Semi-Apo w/ Fork Mount Unboxing

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#276 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 12:01 PM

So 8 or 9mm should suffice (for purposes of testing settling time)?  Nothing higher-mag would be needed, correct?

 

James

Actually I think some of the guys use higher on the newer APM’s

 

The older Semi-Apo version and the Garret Optical model I have is only really good for low to mid power and I stop at 48x 

 

Newer version people have gone higher mag with decent results.

 

A lot of us just end up using one pair the majority of the time.

 

For me it’s the 19mm Flat Fields most of the time. I have pairs though in 28mm, 24mm, 20mm, 19mm, 17.5mm, 15mm, 12.5mm, and 9mm



#277 Rich V.

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 12:26 PM

Thanks again Vondragonnoggin.  So, you really believe that I might not like the Pro-5?  I do like its looks, and maybe it's going to be just as stable as I will need it to be (at a great price no less).  I'll just have to see.  It's going to be delivered today.  B&H is a one-day turnaround from NYC to me.   But I will also take a moment to check out the N12 you recommend.  

 

Any ideas on test EPs?

 

James

If the Pro 5 doesn't have a CB spring, I'd skip it altogether.  A camera used horizontally primarily is one thing; binos tilted at high altitude is another.  Those heavy binos need a video head that provides that feature or you'll get tired of unlocking/locking the alt axis all the time.  Not an appropriate head for your needs, IMO.

 

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#278 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 12:40 PM

If the Pro 5 doesn't have a CB spring, I'd skip it altogether.  A camera used horizontally primarily is one thing; binos tilted at high altitude is another.  Those heavy binos need a video head that provides that feature or you'll get tired of unlocking/locking the alt axis all the time.  Not an appropriate head for your needs, IMO.

 

Rich

The tension adjustment doesn’t have to be completely locked when binos are tilted back for astronomy, just tightened enough to keep them from moving around. You can balance movement with safety. It’s actually a center metal pivot sandwiched by two similar sized metal movement pieces. You can squeeze them enough to hold binos but still be able to nudge in altitude without completely clamping down to where it is locked.

 

as stated earlier. Inelegant solution but works.

 

But I see your point and you definitely want to lock them as you begin nearing observations closer to horizon. They’ll flop forward if you don’t.

 

if one can afford a real quality fluid head with counterweight spring then that is a much better option. The Smith-Victor suggestion was solely because I misinterpreted the mount questions as having a very small budget and a Smith Victor is much better than mounting on a head that is maxed out on capacity. My APM’s for instance on the eLLe were horribly undermounted and movement was not smooth at all, but the 70mm was great on the eLLe.

 

Markus had a picture of the APM100 ED semi-apo on the eLLe, but trying it out was disappointing. SV-Pro 5 better than the eLLe for the100’s.

 

and definitely a yes for proper capacity real fluid head with CW spring if you can pony up the funding for it. It will be substantially better.


Edited by Vondragonnoggin, 14 May 2019 - 12:51 PM.


#279 astrofan007

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 02:05 PM

Thank you again Rich and Vondragonnoggin.  I have ordered the N12 to try as well.

 

Re EPs, do either of you know anything about, or would you recommend/not Explore Scientific 9mm 100 degrees? 



#280 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 02:11 PM

Thank you again Rich and Vondragonnoggin.  I have ordered the N12 to try as well.

 

Re EPs, do either of you know anything about, or would you recommend/not Explore Scientific 9mm 100 degrees? 

Take a look at the size of it compared to some other big ES Ep’s

 

Its a 2” barrel and heavy.

 

https://www.cloudyni...e-ps/?p=9312799

 

would not work in the APM 100


Edited by Vondragonnoggin, 14 May 2019 - 02:11 PM.


#281 astrofan007

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 03:17 PM

I completely overlooked the barrel size.  Thank you for pointing that out.

 

James



#282 astrofan007

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:47 AM

I posted these questions in another thread but it occurred to me that this thread is probably the correct one to seek insight from senior members.

 

1. Is it normal to observe a (very distinct) yellow ring around the near-full moon, as I did last night via the APM 100-90 and 18mm EPs?

 

2. Should stars be precisely pinpoint in a Semi-APO or pretty close to it but not 100 percent?   And to get 100 percent one has to buy a true APO?  Or is getting pinpoint stars a function of matching the "correct" EP to the BT?

 

James



#283 astrofan007

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:57 PM

The tension adjustment doesn’t have to be completely locked when binos are tilted back for astronomy, just tightened enough to keep them from moving around. You can balance movement with safety. It’s actually a center metal pivot sandwiched by two similar sized metal movement pieces. You can squeeze them enough to hold binos but still be able to nudge in altitude without completely clamping down to where it is locked.

 

as stated earlier. Inelegant solution but works.

 

But I see your point and you definitely want to lock them as you begin nearing observations closer to horizon. They’ll flop forward if you don’t.

 

if one can afford a real quality fluid head with counterweight spring then that is a much better option. The Smith-Victor suggestion was solely because I misinterpreted the mount questions as having a very small budget and a Smith Victor is much better than mounting on a head that is maxed out on capacity. My APM’s for instance on the eLLe were horribly undermounted and movement was not smooth at all, but the 70mm was great on the eLLe.

 

Markus had a picture of the APM100 ED semi-apo on the eLLe, but trying it out was disappointing. SV-Pro 5 better than the eLLe for the100’s.

 

and definitely a yes for proper capacity real fluid head with CW spring if you can pony up the funding for it. It will be substantially better.

Hi Vondragonnoggin, in the above quote, did Markus tell you that he tried out the eLLe (with a 100ED) and found it to be "disappointing" or did he write that comment somewhere on Cloudy Nights?  If the latter, I'd like to read his full explanation as to what specifically he was disappointed in.   I can't find much about the eLLe Duo from Google searching.  But I can see that it is a significantly lower cost alternative to implement DSC than the APM version.  It's interesting that the eLLe is available on the APM website and it's described as "suitable for heavy duty binoculars such as the Nexus 100ED or the APM100 Apo . . . characterized by extreme robustness and easy handling."   

 

BTW, I see now what you and Rich meant by the N12 being far better suited for the 100 than the SVPro-5.  Your description of the SV as "inelegant" was spot on.  It does work but managing it takes one's focus a tiny bit away from the primary observation activity.

 

I found the APM center mount to be perfectly fine for the limited low-mag (18mm) viewing I captured last night on the 161 tripod.  It will be interesting to compare everything to the Orion U-Mount when it arrives next week. If I didn't want DSC, the center mount might just be all that I'd need (although maybe I'd be less enthusiastic about it after I use mag EPs higher than the 18s).

 

I have to say that I am strongly leaning toward buying a Nexus DSC/encoders to make my observing time a tad more informative.  Now I just need to decide on the "right" mount to pair it with.  Yes it's going to add $500 to my budget but I regard it as an unforeseen necessity (so that I get the most out of my observing time). 

 

James


Edited by astrofan007, 17 May 2019 - 08:23 PM.

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#284 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:16 PM

No quote from Markus. That was my own experience with the eLLe, which is the half fork and has a 18 lb capacity rating. The APM 100ED Semi-Apo is a 16 lb Binocular so I was pretty much right at capacity with a pair of eyepieces in it. The picture Markus had was the APM 100ED on the eLLe half fork which was why I bought it. Luckily for me I have my 70/90 BT at 8.5 lbs which fits perfectly on the eLLe half fork, so it wasn’t money wasted and no need for return.

 

the “eLLe Duo” is what you would be interested in - the full fork mount and not to be confused with the “eLLe” half fork.

 

eLLe - http://apm-telescope...m/item/33343532

 

eLLe Duo - http://apm-telescope...em/333631353537

 

The eLLe half fork is a very nice mount if you aren’t loading it to full capacity, therefore I would recommend the eLLe Duo for larger binoculars like the 100ED size.

 

The half fork eLLe movement was sticky and not very smooth at all when loaded right to capacity. It worked, but works much better and returned to being very smooth movement without feeling sticky with an 8.5 lb load


Edited by Vondragonnoggin, 17 May 2019 - 03:55 PM.


#285 Vondragonnoggin

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:50 PM

The original announcement thread of the eLLe mount and here is the specific post with a picture of the APM 100ED 45° mounted on them. Posted by Markus

 

https://www.cloudyni...azim/?p=4609992

 

This was why I bought it to use with my 100ED 45°

 

I guess it’s 18 lb rating (I corrected the previous post. I thought it was 17.6 but it’s 18lb according to Markus). At any rate, it was at capacity with older 100ED 45° and not very smooth operation. Perfect for 70mm or even new 82mm

 

Newer 100ED is lighter than the older one and now that the eLLe Duo is available and plans to add DSC/encoder kit and app later, might be a great competitor to the U-mount


Edited by Vondragonnoggin, 17 May 2019 - 03:56 PM.


#286 astrofan007

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:22 PM

No quote from Markus. That was my own experience with the eLLe, which is the half fork and has a 18 lb capacity rating. The APM 100ED Semi-Apo is a 16 lb Binocular so I was pretty much right at capacity with a pair of eyepieces in it. The picture Markus had was the APM 100ED on the eLLe half fork which was why I bought it. Luckily for me I have my 70/90 BT at 8.5 lbs which fits perfectly on the eLLe half fork, so it wasn’t money wasted and no need for return.

 

the “eLLe Duo” is what you would be interested in - the full fork mount and not to be confused with the “eLLe” half fork.

 

eLLe - http://apm-telescope...m/item/33343532

 

eLLe Duo - http://apm-telescope...em/333631353537

 

The eLLe half fork is a very nice mount if you aren’t loading it to full capacity, therefore I would recommend the eLLe Duo for larger binoculars like the 100ED size.

 

The half fork eLLe movement was sticky and not very smooth at all when loaded right to capacity. It worked, but works much better and returned to being very smooth movement without feeling sticky with an 8.5 lb load

Ahh, I misunderstood.  Okay good.

 

BTW, I picked up a pair of the 27mm EPs you recommended.  I'm interested to see just how wide a view I can get with them.  


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#287 SMark

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:23 PM

I posted these questions in another thread but it occurred to me that this thread is probably the correct one to seek insight from senior members.

 

1. Is it normal to observe a (very distinct) yellow ring around the near-full moon, as I did last night via the APM 100-90 and 18mm EPs?

 

2. Should stars be precisely pinpoint in a Semi-APO or pretty close to it but not 100 percent?   And to get 100 percent one has to buy a true APO?  Or is getting pinpoint stars a function of matching the "correct" EP to the BT?

 

James

I don't have my APM Semi-APO 100-90 anymore, but I do remember a yellow ring. For me, it was not bothersome at all. Especially compared to what I had been used to seeing in the various 25x100 giant binoculars that I had owned previously.



#288 astrofan007

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:37 PM

I don't have my APM Semi-APO 100-90 anymore, but I do remember a yellow ring. For me, it was not bothersome at all. Especially compared to what I had been used to seeing in the various 25x100 giant binoculars that I had owned previously.

Thanks SMark.  Ok, good to know.  I did also receive confirmation from Markus at APM that the yellow ring is CA.  He said that all EPs have it except Orthos.

 

James



#289 garret

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:52 AM

I posted these questions in another thread but it occurred to me that this thread is probably the correct one to seek insight from senior members.

 

1. Is it normal to observe a (very distinct) yellow ring around the near-full moon, as I did last night via the APM 100-90 and 18mm EPs?

 

2. Should stars be precisely pinpoint in a Semi-APO or pretty close to it but not 100 percent?   And to get 100 percent one has to buy a true APO?  Or is getting pinpoint stars a function of matching the "correct" EP to the BT?

 

James

1) I have this yellow ring also with my Televue Delites eyepieces + APM 100 ED Apo which are very good for 'planetary viewing' and the best wide-angle eyepieces for the moon.

I'm not 100% sure this is called  'Lateral colour aberration'

This type of aberration is from the eyepiece itself not the telescope, it should not be visible in the centre of the field, but most pronounced at the edge.

 

2) With refractors and ep-binoculars two major aberrations must be as low as possible to get pinpoint stars (in the centre); colour aberration and spherical aberration of the refractor lens. (plus a number of other minor aberrations or defects)

See this website for explanation of several optical aberrations:   https://www.handprin.../ASTRO/ae4.html

 

The APM 100-APO, 120 and the big 150mm binoculars have very low colour aberration (the prism inside helps to lower this aberration) and from medium to low spherical aberration, about 1/3 to 1/4 wave of yellow/green light, they perform well at high magnification.

 

About eyepieces: many eyepieces perform very good or better in the centre, the difference between them is how they perform to the edge of the field.

Especial how a ep perform with telescopes with low F# , In a slow F#10 telescope nearly every ep perform very good at the edge, but with a fast F5.5 (for the APM binoculars) the sharpness at the edge could be very poor, or still good but with huge Lateral colour aberration or with Distortion...and so on... 

Edge performance of eyepieces with field over 70 degree field is always a compromise between sharpness and distortion... see link above.

 

Garrett


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#290 astrofan007

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:26 PM

Thanks Garrett.  Excellent link on optics too. 

 

James



#291 olebellow

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 10:26 AM

I bought a 120mm 90 ED APO bino last month (April 2019) directly from APM in Germany. DHL delivered to my house in Socal within 1 week without any issues. 1 week later I get a letter in the US snail mail from DHL that said I owed them $38.22 USD for the duty on the binos. I had to mail them a check for that amount....no options to pay via credit card or online....oh well.....

I think my shipment was more the exception rather than the rule. I doubt this will happen that often.


Edited by olebellow, 21 May 2019 - 11:31 AM.


#292 astrofan007

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 10:31 AM

I bought a 120mm 90 ED APO bino last month (April 2019) directly from APM in Germany. DHL delivered to my house in Socal within 1 week without any issues. 1 week later I get a letter in the US snail mail from DHL that said I owed them $38.62 USD for the duty on the binos. I had to mail them a check for that amount....no options to pay via credit card or online....oh well.....

Hi olebellow, okay, so I guess I can expect an invoice from DHL too?  Is there anyway to know in advance what those "duty" charges are?   Is it just a percentage of the 120's total cost = $38.62?

 

James



#293 SMark

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:00 AM

Hi olebellow, okay, so I guess I can expect an invoice from DHL too?  Is there anyway to know in advance what those "duty" charges are?   Is it just a percentage of the 120's total cost = $38.62?

 

James

There should not be any duty on binoculars for delivery to the USA (unless, of course, California discovered another way to tax it's citizens.) The problem with these Large APM binos is that the carriers seem to often insist that they are "Telescopes" rather than "Binoculars," and there is a good argument there IMO. Binoculars have no duty charge, while Telescopes do. I fought the issue, and Markus helped me by providing the the proper commodity code directly to the carrier, at which time the carrier agreed and dropped the duty charge. 

 

Though $38.62 seems a bit on the low side to me, so maybe there is something else going on with this one...



#294 astrofan007

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:16 AM

I called UPS.  The customer service rep said that the tariff codes are easily obtainable here: https://wwwapps.ups....ility?loc=en_US

 

James



#295 olebellow

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:24 AM

James,

I just called DHL about this and this is what they told me...

The fee came from the declared value of the Binos...$3483.99 USD plus a $12.00 DHL broker fee. Anything over a declared value of $2500 USD, the US customs charges a flat rate of $26.22 USD and the $12.00 fee was a broker fee that DHL charged me since they paid the duty in advance (since I am not a broker and had the package delivered to my home).

 

Hope this helps,

 

Barry  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi olebellow, okay, so I guess I can expect an invoice from DHL too?  Is there anyway to know in advance what those "duty" charges are?   Is it just a percentage of the 120's total cost = $38.62?

 

James


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#296 olebellow

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:26 AM

I agree....on my Customs duty invoice, they are indeed classified as Telescopes...

There should not be any duty on binoculars for delivery to the USA (unless, of course, California discovered another way to tax it's citizens.) The problem with these Large APM binos is that the carriers seem to often insist that they are "Telescopes" rather than "Binoculars," and there is a good argument there IMO. Binoculars have no duty charge, while Telescopes do. I fought the issue, and Markus helped me by providing the the proper commodity code directly to the carrier, at which time the carrier agreed and dropped the duty charge. 

 

Though $38.62 seems a bit on the low side to me, so maybe there is something else going on with this one...



#297 olebellow

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 11:27 AM

sorry...I was off by a few cents on my amount...it was $38.22 instead of $38.62....sorry...lol...

Hi olebellow, okay, so I guess I can expect an invoice from DHL too?  Is there anyway to know in advance what those "duty" charges are?   Is it just a percentage of the 120's total cost = $38.62?

 

James



#298 SMark

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 12:17 PM

James,

I just called DHL about this and this is what they told me...

The fee came from the declared value of the Binos...$3483.99 USD plus a $12.00 DHL broker fee. Anything over a declared value of $2500 USD, the US customs charges a flat rate of $26.22 USD and the $12.00 fee was a broker fee that DHL charged me since they paid the duty in advance (since I am not a broker and had the package delivered to my home).

 

Hope this helps,

 

Barry  

Yeah, that's right. There is a dollar threshold on it as well.



#299 rockethead26

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 07:09 PM

James,

I just called DHL about this and this is what they told me...

The fee came from the declared value of the Binos...$3483.99 USD plus a $12.00 DHL broker fee. Anything over a declared value of $2500 USD, the US customs charges a flat rate of $26.22 USD and the $12.00 fee was a broker fee that DHL charged me since they paid the duty in advance (since I am not a broker and had the package delivered to my home).

 

Hope this helps,

 

Barry  

I guess that's why I didn't have to pay duty on my APM 100 Semi APOs I received that were well under the $2500 threshold.


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#300 astrofan007

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:52 AM

Thank you Barry and everyone else.

 

Following up on a prior comment I posted regarding a yellow halo around the moon, based on what I've read from the link that Garrett posted as well as other preliminary reading, is this a phenomenon that can be "cured" if I were to buy an "ED" bino instead of a "Semi-APO"?  I believe they both have two lenses but the ED version is "higher" quality so that it has less CA?  That yellow halo is so distracting that it really takes away from the viewing experience.  It's a hard edged distinct bright yellow circle.  I can also see some bluishness on brighter stars.

 

I also compared the included 18mm APMs to a 17.3 Delos and 24mm Panoptic.  I think, but correct me if I am wrong, one gets what one pays for.  The Delos was night and day "better" than the stock EP.  Night and day better.  Stars were far easier to get close to pinpoint on the 17.3 and the entire FOV looked so much "cleaner" to me.  The 18 felt like a toy.  The 17.3 felt like I was using a piece of professional gear.  

 

James


Edited by astrofan007, 22 May 2019 - 08:13 AM.



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