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Evolution 8 + Intel Compute Stick... I think I am in EAA Heaven

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#51 Astrojedi

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 11:04 AM

Keep in mind you want to be able to remove the stick for maintenance/updates and for use on multiple mounts.

 

Velcro is more than strong enough to hold the stick and a 1 lb battery. See picture in first post.


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#52 SonnyE

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 11:15 AM

Velcro it is for me! I really like the stuff.

Got my Stick yesterday. Been setting it up, but hit a snag. A bad one for me...

I've used Celestron's NexRemote virtual handset on my computers for a while now. It is a virtual projection of the NexStar hand control on the mount (AVX in my case).

But I get an error message:

ERROR

NexRemote (1.7.23) is not allowed to run on WinNTx (6.2)

Setup Aborted!

 

Is there any work around for this? :confused:

Or do I need a different mount controller with this Stick Schist? (If I have to change, I can change. I just don't want too.)

 

Current software/programs are: Stellarium, PHD2 (2.6.2), Tight Vnc, and the Orion camera programs.

 

(This post generated with The Stick. :p )



#53 mclewis1

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 12:31 PM

Sonny,

 

It's the same fix as for other older software ... just right click on the installer and run it in compatibility mode (let it use the Win7 compatibilty). Once installed this way NexRemote works just fine under Win10.



#54 SonnyE

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 01:03 PM

Sonny,

 

It's the same fix as for other older software ... just right click on the installer and run it in compatibility mode (let it use the Win7 compatibilty). Once installed this way NexRemote works just fine under Win10.

Thank You Mark.

Brain fart on my part. :blush: Been so long since the last time I forgot about compatibility.

I seem to have had to go back to XP to get there. But it's working now. :choochoo:

 

That was (I hope) the last of the set up for the stick.

So far, everything is working fine. And surprisingly, it works as well or better than my old Toshiba laptop. (Faster)

Of course, the proof will be when I actually connect everything....

 

OK, time for the Velcro and wire routing.

 

Thank You for your help and patience. :waytogo:



#55 nother

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 01:59 PM

I have the problem that the Asus VivoStick only powers up with the original power supply. Any other powerbank/battery or USB adapter (all with >2.0A output) wont fire up the stick.

 

Anyone with a similar problem?


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#56 shirva

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 03:33 PM

great thread,,any updates on running byeos and astrotoaster with the pc stick,,

#57 ChrisFC

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 05:35 PM

I'll load eos utilities and AT onto mine this week and, weather permits, try it.

Anyone tried adding a little router so you can use away from the home wifi ? Avoid tripping over usb leads at star parties

#58 shirva

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 01:54 PM

Cheers Chris



#59 Marco Prunotto

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 03:56 PM

HI Noter, hi everyone

I have two cameras: asi224mc and qhyccd163M + I have as well the usb cable that connect to my g53f mount, how would you accomodate all that on the Asus vivo stick? Would be possible to add a usb2.0 port to the stick? Would you foresee problems?

I truly would love to use the stick remotely from inside via wifi, would that work?

Many thanks for your help

Best regards,
Marco
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#60 SonnyE

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 10:55 PM

HI Noter, hi everyone

I have two cameras: asi224mc and qhyccd163M + I have as well the usb cable that connect to my g53f mount, how would you accomodate all that on the Asus vivo stick? Would be possible to add a usb2.0 port to the stick? Would you foresee problems?

I truly would love to use the stick remotely from inside via wifi, would that work?

Many thanks for your help

Best regards,
Marco

Hi Marco,

I've been running my mount with my laptop outside, and WiFi controlling it from inside (Tight Vnc). So I have the bugs worked out for that.

The laptop required a bundle of USB cables and some power wires for battery power. I've wanted to be rid of the thick harness.

 

But recently I've gone the way of the mini computer with WiFi and I'm working the details (bugs) out as my cables (shorter ones) arrive. It is only half-way to my site out back currently, because our weather has been terrible, and I'm keeping it in until we get better conditions.

But today I have it doing an endurance run, where my guide camera is running, and my imaging camera is taking mock pictures (Caps on). Meanwhile, Stellarium is up and running, and my focuser is getting tried out.

 

I put the same programs in the stick computer as what I use/used in my laptop. And I've been trying to transfer my settings I've settled on for my needs. And things are getting better as I go along. (I never expect everything to run right out of the gate.)

I'm still not sure about range with the little stick on the WiFi yet, but from one side of our home to the back wall of the house it is working. If it turns out to be weak, I'll likely put a repeater or booster ~half way.

I'm using a powered USB3 hub at the mount to gather, and a single cable from it to the stick computer. But I also am using the mount USB up to the USB2 port in the stick computer.

Almost the same as when using the laptop.

 

I have two friends who do remote operation of their mounts. One WiFi, and the other currently with a CAT 5 cable but planning to do a Linux WiFi arrangement. I gleaned a lot of ideas and methods from them initially, then gather more around the Internet and this treasure trove.

 

Remote control is definitely doable.



#61 SonnyE

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 11:36 PM

I have the problem that the Asus VivoStick only powers up with the original power supply. Any other powerbank/battery or USB adapter (all with >2.0A output) wont fire up the stick.

 

Anyone with a similar problem?

Well, no, not the same problem.

I have a new Intel stick. I was curious about running it from my powered hub but couldn't find anything specific.

During my setting things up I found it did power up through the USB connection from the hub. But it didn't seem like it was acting quite right. But I was still installing my programs at the time.

So I plugged in the power supply it came with.

 

Once everything is working right (and it appears it is now, I'm doing a burn in run) my hope is to power the Mini from my battery I use for my 12 volt needs. I'm still hoping I can feed 12 volts to my USB3 hub, and have it feed the Mini computer its 5 volt requirement.

My hub has a 3000 mA power supply, @ 12 volts DC.

 

But if I have to use the supplied power supply, I don't mind. But I was hoping to do as minimal of trailing wiring as I can get away with.



#62 dbassi48

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:08 AM

The new generation of C- or even larger size CMOS cameras (like my new ZWO ASI 071MC) requires a huge amount of memory and a suitable computing power. As already mentioned, it is actually impossible to manage a stacking process with only 2GB RAMs, moreover also the computing time is to be taken into account. In my system I use a low cost ASUS notebook with 4 GB and an Intel PC which has more or less the same speed of that mounted in a stick computer. Stacking may be a very time consuming  process.


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#63 nother

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:45 AM

HI Noter, hi everyone

I have two cameras: asi224mc and qhyccd163M + I have as well the usb cable that connect to my g53f mount, how would you accomodate all that on the Asus vivo stick? Would be possible to add a usb2.0 port to the stick? Would you foresee problems?

I truly would love to use the stick remotely from inside via wifi, would that work?

Many thanks for your help

Best regards,
Marco

Yesterday I had a first session with the VivoStick. It was stacking pictures coming from the ASI224MC with Sharpcap and in parallel autoguiding with the QHY-5L-IIc with PHD2. I also started Stellarium for slewing to the targets. Memory usage was at about 70% and CPU usage at about 60%. The WiFi connection via RDP was OK but lagging a bit, although the WiFi signal strength was nearly 100%. The stick was about 10 meters away from the house in the garden and the WiFi router is about 5 meters away from the window inside the house.

 

Before my first run yesterday I tested everything inside the house and the connection speed was excelent without any lags. During this test the QHY and the mount hand controller where connected to USB 2.0 and the ASI224 via USB3.0 to the stick. But yesterday the stick could not connect to the router from outside as long as the ASI was connected to USB 3.0. After switching it to USB 2.0 the connection was back, but it seems like there is a memory bandwith bottleneck when everything is on one USB 2.0 port.

 

Using a stick mounted to the scope while sitting on the couch in the cozy warm house with the laptop on my knees observing amazing things in space is great fun :grin:


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#64 dbassi48

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:07 PM

HI Noter, hi everyone

I have two cameras: asi224mc and qhyccd163M + I have as well the usb cable that connect to my g53f mount, how would you accomodate all that on the Asus vivo stick? Would be possible to add a usb2.0 port to the stick? Would you foresee problems?

I truly would love to use the stick remotely from inside via wifi, would that work?

Many thanks for your help

Best regards,
Marco

Hi Marco,

when you add a USB Hub different problems may occur. In general, ZWO cameras dislikes hubs, and in many cases even if the camera is connected and recognized by the Windows Device manager does not work at all. This is probably due to the delay introduced by the hub which interferes in the signal exchange between PC and camera. ZWO manuals are clear and recommends to avoid any USB hubs.

Additional power managing problems may occur in some cases when you use a stick computer with only USB 2.0 port(s). These are designed to provide no more than 0.5 A, just at the limit of the current necessary to power larger detector USB3.0 ZWO cameras (e.g. ASI071). USB 3.0 cameras works properly also if connected to a USB 2.0 port. Of course the data exchange speed is lower, but this is not a severe problem for Deep Sky observations. In some cases, a solution may be that of adding an external 5V power supply, and a very short splitted USB cable to power the camera connected to a USB 2.0 port.

Clear skies, Davide



#65 Robrj

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:21 PM

My ZWO ASI185MC works fine through a USB 3.0 powered hub.
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#66 dbassi48

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:39 PM

My ZWO ASI185MC works fine through a USB 3.0 powered hub.

Yes, but depends critically from the hub!



#67 dbassi48

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 03:59 PM

I'll load eos utilities and AT onto mine this week and, weather permits, try it.

Anyone tried adding a little router so you can use away from the home wifi ? Avoid tripping over usb leads at star parties

I use a low cost 450 MHz router, without any connection to Internet. Advantages are twice:
1) you may transport your system and use the remote connection even when you are not at home. Especially in winter time it may be a plus! The router is powered at 9V. I replaced the AC-DC supply included in the router box with a small Chinese DC-DC step-down converter, so I can power the router using either the 12V output of an AC-DC power supply or a 12V battery. The whole system (AC-DC power supply, router, notebook to locally control the telescope and other accessories like red lamps, etc.) are contained in a small carry case, and may be easily transported.
2) Moreover, you must remember that installing RDPwrap in your local PC significantly increase hacking risks. Using a dedicated router without any connection to Internet eliminates this problem (unless your neighbour is particularly malicious!)


Edited by dbassi48, 14 February 2017 - 03:59 PM.

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#68 Tom M

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:25 PM


2) Moreover, you must remember that installing RDPwrap in your local PC significantly increase hacking risks. Using a dedicated router without any connection to Internet eliminates this problem (unless your neighbour is particularly malicious!)

 

Wouldn't it only pose a risk if they are on your local, secured, network? Unless of course you are punching a hole in your router to provide WAN access for truly remote access - in which case you should also use a non standard port number to increase security.

 

Lastly, you do have your PC with RDPWrap password protected, don't you? ;)



#69 Astrojedi

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:28 PM

 

I'll load eos utilities and AT onto mine this week and, weather permits, try it.

Anyone tried adding a little router so you can use away from the home wifi ? Avoid tripping over usb leads at star parties

2) Moreover, you must remember that installing RDPwrap in your local PC significantly increase hacking risks. Using a dedicated router without any connection to Internet eliminates this problem (unless your neighbour is particularly malicious!)

 

Not true. RDP has no more security risk than any other service listening on ports. Just like your windows log-in account you need to make sure you have a strong password.



#70 Astrojedi

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:33 PM

The new generation of C- or even larger size CMOS cameras (like my new ZWO ASI 071MC) requires a huge amount of memory and a suitable computing power. As already mentioned, it is actually impossible to manage a stacking process with only 2GB RAMs, moreover also the computing time is to be taken into account. In my system I use a low cost ASUS notebook with 4 GB and an Intel PC which has more or less the same speed of that mounted in a stick computer. Stacking may be a very time consuming  process.

The problem is not one of capability but rather optimization. SharpCap is not optimized to run in a constrained environment of the compute stick. There are ways to optimize so that memory use is more measured. I would like to see how AstroToaster behaves.

 

If optimized there should no issues with stacking files of this size. The speed will not rival a faster more capable system (as there will be more paging to disk - which in this case is a much faster SSD) but it should work.



#71 Astrojedi

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 07:40 PM

 

HI Noter, hi everyone

I have two cameras: asi224mc and qhyccd163M + I have as well the usb cable that connect to my g53f mount, how would you accomodate all that on the Asus vivo stick? Would be possible to add a usb2.0 port to the stick? Would you foresee problems?

I truly would love to use the stick remotely from inside via wifi, would that work?

Many thanks for your help

Best regards,
Marco

Hi Marco,

when you add a USB Hub different problems may occur. In general, ZWO cameras dislikes hubs, and in many cases even if the camera is connected and recognized by the Windows Device manager does not work at all. This is probably due to the delay introduced by the hub which interferes in the signal exchange between PC and camera. ZWO manuals are clear and recommends to avoid any USB hubs.

Additional power managing problems may occur in some cases when you use a stick computer with only USB 2.0 port(s). These are designed to provide no more than 0.5 A, just at the limit of the current necessary to power larger detector USB3.0 ZWO cameras (e.g. ASI071). USB 3.0 cameras works properly also if connected to a USB 2.0 port. Of course the data exchange speed is lower, but this is not a severe problem for Deep Sky observations. In some cases, a solution may be that of adding an external 5V power supply, and a very short splitted USB cable to power the camera connected to a USB 2.0 port.

Clear skies, Davide

 

0.5A is more than enough to power an uncooled camera. I run an autoguider, mount control and ASI290MM off the same unpowered USB 2.0 hub connected to the compute stick's USB 2.0 port.

 

The problem with a hub is the bandwidth and latency especially with larger sensors.



#72 nickcodybarrett

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 09:14 PM

awesome



#73 Ain Soph Aur

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 10:04 PM

What type connector does the Compute Sticks use? I currently have a light-weight extension cord running up to the Compute Stick power supply, but would rather come up with a Powerpole to Compute Stick cable if possible as I have a Powerpole 12V distribution hub riding on the scope.


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#74 dbassi48

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 11:05 AM

 

 

HI Noter, hi everyone

I have two cameras: asi224mc and qhyccd163M + I have as well the usb cable that connect to my g53f mount, how would you accomodate all that on the Asus vivo stick? Would be possible to add a usb2.0 port to the stick? Would you foresee problems?

I truly would love to use the stick remotely from inside via wifi, would that work?

Many thanks for your help

Best regards,
Marco

Hi Marco,

when you add a USB Hub different problems may occur. In general, ZWO cameras dislikes hubs, and in many cases even if the camera is connected and recognized by the Windows Device manager does not work at all. This is probably due to the delay introduced by the hub which interferes in the signal exchange between PC and camera. ZWO manuals are clear and recommends to avoid any USB hubs.

Additional power managing problems may occur in some cases when you use a stick computer with only USB 2.0 port(s). These are designed to provide no more than 0.5 A, just at the limit of the current necessary to power larger detector USB3.0 ZWO cameras (e.g. ASI071). USB 3.0 cameras works properly also if connected to a USB 2.0 port. Of course the data exchange speed is lower, but this is not a severe problem for Deep Sky observations. In some cases, a solution may be that of adding an external 5V power supply, and a very short splitted USB cable to power the camera connected to a USB 2.0 port.

Clear skies, Davide

 

0.5A is more than enough to power an uncooled camera. I run an autoguider, mount control and ASI290MM off the same unpowered USB 2.0 hub connected to the compute stick's USB 2.0 port.

 

The problem with a hub is the bandwidth and latency especially with larger sensors.

 

Citation from the ZWO ASI071MC manual (pag. 9)

 

"ASI071 has one APS-C sensor, the max power consumption is around 500ma@5Vwhich is nearly the maximum power supply of USB2.0.We recommend customer connect ASI071 through USB3.0 which can provide 1A@5V power"

 

The current adsorption of a CMOS camera depends on the size of the detector. ASI290MM is a completely different story (160 mA@5V)!



#75 Astrojedi

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 12:46 PM

 

 

 

HI Noter, hi everyone

I have two cameras: asi224mc and qhyccd163M + I have as well the usb cable that connect to my g53f mount, how would you accomodate all that on the Asus vivo stick? Would be possible to add a usb2.0 port to the stick? Would you foresee problems?

I truly would love to use the stick remotely from inside via wifi, would that work?

Many thanks for your help

Best regards,
Marco

Hi Marco,

when you add a USB Hub different problems may occur. In general, ZWO cameras dislikes hubs, and in many cases even if the camera is connected and recognized by the Windows Device manager does not work at all. This is probably due to the delay introduced by the hub which interferes in the signal exchange between PC and camera. ZWO manuals are clear and recommends to avoid any USB hubs.

Additional power managing problems may occur in some cases when you use a stick computer with only USB 2.0 port(s). These are designed to provide no more than 0.5 A, just at the limit of the current necessary to power larger detector USB3.0 ZWO cameras (e.g. ASI071). USB 3.0 cameras works properly also if connected to a USB 2.0 port. Of course the data exchange speed is lower, but this is not a severe problem for Deep Sky observations. In some cases, a solution may be that of adding an external 5V power supply, and a very short splitted USB cable to power the camera connected to a USB 2.0 port.

Clear skies, Davide

 

0.5A is more than enough to power an uncooled camera. I run an autoguider, mount control and ASI290MM off the same unpowered USB 2.0 hub connected to the compute stick's USB 2.0 port.

 

The problem with a hub is the bandwidth and latency especially with larger sensors.

 

Citation from the ZWO ASI071MC manual (pag. 9)

 

"ASI071 has one APS-C sensor, the max power consumption is around 500ma@5Vwhich is nearly the maximum power supply of USB2.0.We recommend customer connect ASI071 through USB3.0 which can provide 1A@5V power"

 

The current adsorption of a CMOS camera depends on the size of the detector. ASI290MM is a completely different story (160 mA@5V)!

 

Yes, but you are taking the data point on ASI071 power consumption and generalizing it to other ZWO cameras when responding to Marco's question. The 224's power consumption is nowhere close to 500mA. Even my ASI1600 camera runs quite comfortably off an unpowered USB 2.0 hub although I do get lost frames once in a while (due to the lower data rate and because the ASI1600 does not have a memory buffer).


Edited by Astrojedi, 15 February 2017 - 12:47 PM.



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