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Testing ASI071 for EAA

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#1 DonBoy

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 03:29 PM

I just received an ASI071 and had first light last night.  I do EAA imaging for broadcast on NightSkiesNetwork.com and I'm testing this camera for that purpose.  I also have a modded T3i with just a clear protective glass and an ASI1600MC-Cool.  I found the ASI071 to be noisier than the ASI600MC-C.  I run the gain at a high setting to help keep exposures down to around 60sec to 120sec, I will run longer if needed.  I use SharpCap and AstroToaster and set the exposure so that the left side of the histogram is in the 10% to 25% range.  I originally started out with the cooler set to -15C but later changed to -20C.   I started the session with gain set to 400 but later lowered to around 250-300.  

 

Link to last nights images taken from broadcast with no post processing followed by duplicate image with post noise reduction applied.  Data is included in the image description.

 

https://www.flickr.c...157679587372466


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#2 Stozhary

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 04:46 PM

I just received an ASI071 and had first light last night.  I do EAA imaging for broadcast on NightSkiesNetwork.com and I'm testing this camera for that purpose.  I also have a modded T3i with just a clear protective glass and an ASI1600MC-Cool.  I found the ASI071 to be noisier than the ASI600MC-C.  I run the gain at a high setting to help keep exposures down to around 60sec to 120sec, I will run longer if needed.  I use SharpCap and AstroToaster and set the exposure so that the left side of the histogram is in the 10% to 25% range.  I originally started out with the cooler set to -15C but later changed to -20C.   I started the session with gain set to 400 but later lowered to around 250-300.  

 

Link to last nights images taken from broadcast with no post processing followed by duplicate image with post noise reduction applied.  Data is included in the image description.

 

https://www.flickr.c...157679587372466

Nice images Don, thanks for sharing with us. It looks like you did them with 700-1000 mm focal length optic.

It is interesting application of ASI071 for broadcasting. Did you think to use Atik Infinity camera for EAA and broadcasting. Camera comes with special software for that purpose. Albeit, Infinity sensor only 11 mm diameter but very last generation of Sony CCD chip. Easy to work with it but needs shorter focal length optic to cover wide FOV.

Thanks



#3 DonBoy

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 05:30 PM

Stozhary,

 

Thanks for the comments.  The scopes native FL is 730mm.  

 

As to the Atik Infinity, I was the first to use it's big brother the Atik414 for broadcasting in May 2015.  I eventually ended up with an Infinity but later went back to the Atik414.    I've been also using a ASI1600MC-Cool, a modded T3i, ASI224MC and ASI290MM for EAA broadcasting.  

You might want to checkout my Infinity and Atik414 and other ASI cameras in my Flickr albums.

 

https://www.flickr.c...5399@N04/albums


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#4 DonBoy

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 05:33 PM

I've been out with the ASI071 a few times to test EAA broadcast my live images and here are some of the results that a few minutes worth of live casting can yield.  The images have been reduced to fit the space and some have been cropped.  I was using a 152mm Mak-Newt @f4.8 + Idas LPS D1 and camera gain was 300.

 

NGC2174-60s x 12-350g

31897765833_433e130673_z.jpg

 

M97 - 180S & 240S X 10

32331083640_0573f1f9cd_z.jpg

 

M81-240S X 14

32331083780_7d29671b28_z.jpg

 

M81& M82-240S X 14

32331083970_9008db9f06_z.jpg

 

C14-45s x 4-325g

32512714041_419e9eacd0_z.jpg

 

M1-120S X6 + 300S X 6 -300g

32710163455_53a821f2d0_z.jpg

 

M106-180s x 13

32710164465_625a81fe3c_z.jpg

 

My ASI071 testing album link:

 

https://www.flickr.c...157679587372466

 

 


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#5 DonBoy

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 03:18 PM

I started a topic in the EAA forum that can be found here:

 

http://www.cloudynig...a/#entry7690620


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#6 DonBoy

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 12:57 PM

I did additional testing for EAA broadcasting on Nightskiesnetwork.com with the ASI071 at gain 300 using an ES 127 CF @ f7.5 and the filter was an Idas LPS D1.

 

IC410-180s x 10 

IC410-180s x 10 -300g_filtereda.jpg

 

M35-91S X 8

M35-91S X 8.jpg

 

M45-120s x 10

M45-120s x 10 - 300g_filtereda.jpg

 

NGC2403-180S X 10

NGC2403-180S X 10_filtereda.jpg


Edited by DonBoy, 21 February 2017 - 01:05 PM.

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#7 DonBoy

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 01:00 PM

M37-90s x 5

M37-90s x 5.jpg

 

M51-180S X 7

M51-180S X 7_filtereda.jpg

 

NGC7789-92S X 8

NGC7789-92S X 8.jpg


Edited by DonBoy, 21 February 2017 - 01:11 PM.

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#8 Mithrander1972

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 11:42 AM

Don,  Thanks for posting your results in this forum and also for your broadcasts on NSN.  Your results prompted me to order an ASI071 yesterday.   Actually it was a retirement gift from my wife.  I like my Mallincam XT-418, but this camera should be  a significant upgrade.  It should also perform better than my Cannon T5 by virtue of the cooling to reduce noise.   Like you I'm interested in using the camera for EAA and not true  imaging.  I'll stack a few frames and tweak a few camera settings, but no way I want to spend hours of my time post processing images.  Thanks again for all the good info from this group.  I'll share my results and learnings.

 

Tim



#9 Goofi

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 07:20 PM

Moderator Note:

 

This thread is going to stay here in Beginning & Intermediate Imaging, rather than move to EAA because the member is doing post-processing to his images. So even though he collects via EAA, the post-processing prevents him from posting images there. In order to encourage participation, we're allowing this here.



#10 DonBoy

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:29 PM

After a long hiatus I was able to get in some more testing of the ASI071.  The scope was my ES 127 CF @ f/7.5 and the filter was an Idas LPS D1.  

 

Last night I connected the guide camera to the ASI071 USB2 port and eliminated a USB cable.  I didn't use any calibration frames and noticed a little amp glow along the bottom of the images and in the upper right corner.  I've also had 4 corner vignetting of equal amount and I'm not sure of the source.   The camera has had a small thin thread traveling around on the sensor.  I'm not too keen on taking the camera apart nor do I have specific instructions on how to handle this problem.  I'm hoping that the thread will fall off the sensor and get stuck to some object not in the optical path.   

 

IC405 - 120s x 15 - gain 350

IC405-120s x 15-350g_filt.jpg

 

M97 cropped - 120s x 15 - gain 350

M97-120S X 15 - 350G copy_filteredcrop copy.jpg

 

NGC2403 - 120s x 15 - gain 350 - Amp glow visible along bottom and upper right corner.

NGC2403-120S X 15-350G copy_filtered1.jpg


Edited by DonBoy, 20 March 2017 - 08:46 PM.

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#11 DonBoy

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 03:19 PM

I've also noticed that the 2" Idas LPS D1 filter is not a good match to the ASI071 and the ASI1600MC-C.  What I've found is that the red channel for white balance in SC in Auto mode goes to maximum of 99 and it still doesn't achieve enough gain.  Where as, when I use my 1.25" Idas LPS P2 with the ASI1600MC (too small for  ASI071) the gain for the Red channel in WB never tops out and the histogram shows a more uniform WB.

 

Idas LPS D1 - WB Gain: Red 99 & Blue 70

31135698314_e52afa98f6_z.jpg

 

 

 

Idas LPS P2 - WB Gain: Red 78 & Blue 67

31135695634_f9d878afaf_z.jpg

 

 

I called Hutech about this and they said the D1 was designed for modified DSLRs because they exhibit too much red.  But that leaves me with the question of why the ASI071, which is the same sensor in the Nikon D5100, doesn't exhibit too much red?


Edited by DonBoy, 21 March 2017 - 03:38 PM.

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#12 AstroOlly

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:04 PM

I've also noticed that the 2" Idas LPS D1 filter is not a good match to the ASI071 and the ASI1600MC-C.  What I've found is that the red channel for white balance in SC in Auto mode goes to maximum of 99 and it still doesn't achieve enough gain.  Where as, when I use my 1.25" Idas LPS P2 with the ASI1600MC (too small for  ASI071) the gain for the Red channel in WB never tops out and the histogram shows a more uniform WB.

 

Idas LPS D1 - WB Gain: Red 99 & Blue 70

attachicon.gif31135698314_e52afa98f6_z.jpg

 

 

 

Idas LPS P2 - WB Gain: Red 78 & Blue 67

attachicon.gif31135695634_f9d878afaf_z.jpg

 

 

I called Hutech about this and they said the D1 was designed for modified DSLRs because they exhibit too much red.  But that leaves me with the question of why the ASI071, which is the same sensor in the Nikon D5100, doesn't exhibit too much red?

Won't the DSLR have filters in front of the sensor to stop it exhibiting too much red and so show normal daytime colour balance, whereas the ASI camera will just have the clear glass filter in front...?

Olly



#13 DonBoy

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 07:25 PM

 

 

Won't the DSLR have filters in front of the sensor to stop it exhibiting too much red and so show normal daytime colour balance, whereas the ASI camera will just have the clear glass filter in front...?
Olly

Olly, modified DSLR come either with an astronomical UV/IR fixed filter or an AR (anti-reflection clear) window or no cover glass at all.  So this applies to modded DSLRs and the red is greatly restricted in a non modded DSLR.   So when the mod is done with an AR window or no glass then there is no restriction to the wavelength so the Idas LPS D1 cuts off the top of the wavelength at 650nm to reduce the amount of IR and thus the red level is reduced.  The Idas P2 has a cut at 700nm so it allows more red and that is why Hutech said they now offer the D1.  



#14 AstroOlly

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 04:45 AM

I was trying to answer your question you asked below....but maybe I have not understood it very well... :)

 

"But that leaves me with the question of why the ASI071, which is the same sensor in the Nikon D5100, doesn't exhibit too much red?"

 

Olly



#15 DonBoy

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:48 AM

I was trying to answer your question you asked below....but maybe I have not understood it very well... smile.gif

 

"But that leaves me with the question of why the ASI071, which is the same sensor in the Nikon D5100, doesn't exhibit too much red?"

 

Olly

You got me Olly.  I've posted these same repeated results in a bunch of places and no one has commented  on why the ASI071 doesn't have enough red.  Maybe I'll send Sam (ZWO) a note and see what he has to say.



#16 DonBoy

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:59 AM

Just posted this same results in ZWO forum.



#17 DonBoy

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 12:24 PM

 

The camera has had a small thin thread traveling around on the sensor.  I'm not too keen on taking the camera apart nor do I have specific instructions on how to handle this problem.  I'm hoping that the thread will fall off the sensor and get stuck to some object not in the optical path.

I was able to gently blow the thread off the sensor by going through the side air socket port.



#18 AstroOlly

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 02:08 PM

I did see a comparison somewhere, it may have been on here, but it showed the difference between the KAF8300 sensor and the ASI1600, and the 8300 is much more responsive to the red end, while lower at the blue, while the ASI is much more in the blue, and low on the red.....so perhaps it's something to do with these Panasonic sensors in the ASI1600 cameras being generally low at the red response end

but then again you are comparing to a camera with the same sensors fitted, so thought it may be to do with filters fitted in front of the sensor on the DSLR....just a thought smile.gif

Olly


Edited by AstroOlly, 22 March 2017 - 02:09 PM.


#19 Mithrander1972

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Posted Yesterday, 11:26 AM

I've had 3 sessions now with my ASI071MC-Cool and I love this camera !   After using a Mallincam XT-418 for years, the large sensor on the ASI071 is wonderful.  I am seeing one issue that I'm curious if others have.  When cooling the camera I set the cooler at -10 C and turn on the dew heater on the camera window.  That works fine but if I increase the cooling, say to -15 or 20 I start to see distortions on the image that look like ice crystals !  I turn off the cooling for a bit and they disappear.  I anticipated that coming from the manufacturer and having never had the chip chamber opened, that I would not have such issues.  I am not yet using the auxiliary desiccant tablets that screw into the side of the camera.  I suspect that this will solve my problem, but I am curious if others have similar experience with this camera.

 

Tim 



#20 Christian-UAE

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Posted Yesterday, 10:31 PM

I've had 3 sessions now with my ASI071MC-Cool and I love this camera !   After using a Mallincam XT-418 for years, the large sensor on the ASI071 is wonderful.  I am seeing one issue that I'm curious if others have.  When cooling the camera I set the cooler at -10 C and turn on the dew heater on the camera window.  That works fine but if I increase the cooling, say to -15 or 20 I start to see distortions on the image that look like ice crystals !  I turn off the cooling for a bit and they disappear.  I anticipated that coming from the manufacturer and having never had the chip chamber opened, that I would not have such issues.  I am not yet using the auxiliary desiccant tablets that screw into the side of the camera.  I suspect that this will solve my problem, but I am curious if others have similar experience with this camera.

 

Tim 

Hi,

 

I have the same problem with ice. Even I used the desiccant tablets, the problem still persist. At temps below -10, icing starts on the sensor and capturing images is useless. So I assume it is a sealing problem ?

 

Camera will go back to ZWO as has it has too a problem with a not properly cleaned sensor.

https://www.cloudyni...rs-and-streaks/

 

I tried to clean it by myself according to ZWO instructions but no success.

 

Regards

Christian




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