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Old Scopes and Modern Imaging

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#376 TerryWood

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Posted 17 March 2021 - 02:51 PM

Wow, those are really, really impressive! V/R Terry

#377 Helvetios

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Posted 17 March 2021 - 03:55 PM

Wow, those are really, really impressive! V/R Terry

Thank you very much.  Such a great telescope!



#378 Bonco2

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Posted 21 March 2021 - 08:09 PM

Not so much about imaging but this is artistic renditions of views thru 19th century refractors.  Wish I knew which ones. The best is the depiction of two moon transits of Jupiter. Look at the size of the great red spot. That's more like what I remember in the 1960's  Another best is the drawing of Saturn. I also love the picture of the comet next to the old observatory. I find these to be amazing and are better than the text book photo's I grew up with.

Bill

 

https://www.brainpic...cal-drawings/  


Edited by Bonco2, 21 March 2021 - 08:11 PM.

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#379 jcruse64

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 01:10 PM

These are pretty sweet. Really loved the solar ones, especially the one of the 07/29/1879 eclipse. The Saturn rendering was so good, as well. Thanks for the link!!



#380 CCD-Freak

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 10:01 PM

I used my old CI-700 mount with my new Sharpstar 150mm F2.8 Hyper Newt and the guiding was extremely good.

 

SS15028HNT in SkyBox-1.JPG

 

 

 

 


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#381 CCD-Freak

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Posted 23 March 2021 - 10:02 PM

See....you can teach an old dog new tricks.  lol.gif

 

NGC2237-Ha-Cal-Sigma-CS-crop-LogStr-3x3.jpg

 


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#382 semlin

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Posted 24 March 2021 - 09:59 AM

Not so much about imaging but this is artistic renditions of views thru 19th century refractors.  Wish I knew which ones. The best is the depiction of two moon transits of Jupiter. Look at the size of the great red spot. That's more like what I remember in the 1960's  Another best is the drawing of Saturn. I also love the picture of the comet next to the old observatory. I find these to be amazing and are better than the text book photo's I grew up with.

Bill

 

https://www.brainpic...cal-drawings/  

 

those are fantastic.  the style seems like early second half of the 20th century not 19th century.  the picture of the comet trailing away from the unused observatory is awesome.


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#383 LukaszLu

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 08:31 PM

I finally mobilized myself to organize a makeshift cradle that allows my RAO R-74 to be mounted on a modern EXOS-2 mount and to try how this classic refractor will handle working with a digital camera and a computer.

 

Let me dedicate this photo session to CharlieB, who helped me a lot in solving the problem of the damaged rack and pinion gear. It is thanks to him that I can enjoy a stable focuser that maintains the position of the camera regardless of the position of the tube and allows me to adjust the focus in a comfortable way. Thanks Charlie!

 

51132653098_d0f2d41aeb_o_d.jpg

 

This is the first in a series of photos taken that night. It will probably be processed again and perhaps the color tone or color saturation will change a bit. However, I was already looking forward to seeing the first effects - and I would like to share these effects with you with equal impatience. The photo is a stack of 1600 shots using 66% of the best shots.

 

20210422_195833(0).jpg

20210422_200104.jpg


Edited by LukaszLu, 22 April 2021 - 08:34 PM.

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#384 semlin

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Posted 22 April 2021 - 08:58 PM

oooh, as the owner of a 1962 rao 76x1200 you have my full attention.  wow.  


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#385 LukaszLu

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 04:38 AM

Thanks. This is my first attempt at photography with this refractor. Of course, I wonder if what you see in the photo is the limit of its possibilities? What will Mr. Barlow say? So far I have managed to take a few shots in the focus without using the Barlow, the sky quickly clouded over and I had to end my session. But I'm very curious what can still be obtained with higher magnification.



#386 Kokatha man

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 04:57 AM

Thanks. This is my first attempt at photography with this refractor. Of course, I wonder if what you see in the photo is the limit of its possibilities? What will Mr. Barlow say? So far I have managed to take a few shots in the focus without using the Barlow, the sky quickly clouded over and I had to end my session. But I'm very curious what can still be obtained with higher magnification.

Probably not much more without really first-class seeing if the ZWO camera you display taking your captures is one of the 2.4um sensor types...if one of the 3.75um cams you could push the image scale to f20 or thereabouts. ;)


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#387 LukaszLu

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 05:14 AM

Yes - it's 2,4 µm ZWO ASI 178 MC. Another problem is that I can't use my favourite 2'' ED Barlow here. I have only average quality 1,25'' standard Meade or Bresser Barlows that could be used with 0,965-1,25 adapter. Not to mention about terrible 0,965'' 'classic' Barlows which give off such reflections that they are useless... But I feel tempted to try.



#388 Bagwell

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 07:08 AM

That is a beautiful image.   If you really wanted to try, maybe you could borrow a nice 1.25 barlow from someone near you.  :)  

 

Thanks, 
Vaughn


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#389 LukaszLu

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 07:30 AM

Thank you. First of all, I need good weather - and this is a very scarce commodity this year in Poland :-)


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#390 LukaszLu

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 03:32 PM

Today I dedicated myself to reworking all material from April 22nd. Here are the first effects - I don't think I can get more out of it.

Royal Astro R-74 + ZWO ASI 178 MC camera.

 

51139671371_1c34f806da_o_d.jpg


Edited by LukaszLu, 26 April 2021 - 06:04 AM.

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#391 LukaszLu

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 06:42 AM

Another piece - the maria and mountain ranges of the north ... Almost like on Earth, with the difference that they did not form for millions of years - although looking at these powerful formations it is hard to believe...

 

51140821145_d294edc48e_o_d.jpg


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#392 LukaszLu

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 10:09 AM

And finally, Tycho and the rest of his gang once again - remastered and slightly improved compared to the previous version.

 

It's true - I tried to minimize the yellow discoloration on the edge caused by chromatic aberration, which can be seen when you compare this image with the previous version. However, I can assure you that in the case of images obtained by modern ED apo, I also have to unleash Photoshop to remove CA traces that are also present there!

 

51139363657_07858ffcc8_o_d.jpg


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#393 LukaszLu

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 01:17 PM

To sum up this session, I combined all 5 shots taken that evening into one mosaic and scaled down the whole image a bit.

 

Each of these shots was created as a compilation of 1600 frames, so in fact I "used" 8000 photos to create the entire image. My poor computer grinded this stuff for almost a day. The good old RAO has put modern electronics through the wringer :-)

 

51140816009_9b40ee0953_o_d.jpg


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#394 semlin

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 04:56 PM

those are lovely images but a lot less bright than anything i see with my rao.  are you using a filter or intentionally reducing the brightness in post production?

 

i actually have a basic adapter so i can try straight shot hand tracked dslr photography for comparison.  i imagine it would show less than half that detail.  



#395 LukaszLu

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 05:30 PM

Thank you! The decision on how to choose the brightness of the Moon's photos in a situation where there are sites with such different albedo on its surface is never easy, because the monitor will never be able to reflect what the eye can see, adapting instantly to changing brightness. Therefore, looking through the eyepiece, we are able to observe both poorly visible details in the shade and the brightest objects such as Proclus or Aristarchus - and we see them correctly. In the photo it is impossible without the use of HDR techniques, which are a kind of cheat.

 

So I always have to decide whether to fight for details in the shadows, or for general brightness, or not to burn out the brightest fragments, turning them into white, eaten "through" spots. Personally, I think that the latter case is the most painful and it is worth paying the price of lower brightness just to avoid losing the brightest parts of the image. This is, of course, my personal subjective approach, but with this type of photo processing, there is no objective pattern of "truthfulness".


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#396 semlin

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 05:57 PM

Thank you! The decision on how to choose the brightness of the Moon's photos in a situation where there are sites with such different albedo on its surface is never easy, because the monitor will never be able to reflect what the eye can see, adapting instantly to changing brightness. Therefore, looking through the eyepiece, we are able to observe both poorly visible details in the shade and the brightest objects such as Proclus or Aristarchus - and we see them correctly. In the photo it is impossible without the use of HDR techniques, which are a kind of cheat.

 

So I always have to decide whether to fight for details in the shadows, or for general brightness, or not to burn out the brightest fragments, turning them into white, eaten "through" spots. Personally, I think that the latter case is the most painful and it is worth paying the price of lower brightness just to avoid losing the brightest parts of the image. This is, of course, my personal subjective approach, but with this type of photo processing, there is no objective pattern of "truthfulness".

 

thanks.  that makes sense.  i am somewhat resolved to the fact that old refractor telescopes are like binoculars in that you very often cannot reproduce and share the striking things you see through them, but it is nice to get a technical explanation as to why.



#397 LukaszLu

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 06:29 PM

There is simply no single objective image seen with the eye - the eye's sensitivity changes constantly as we shift our eyes to objects of different brightness. This is why the HDR technique was invented in photography, consisting in composing several images exposed in different ways - so as to save both dark and light parts. However, the effect of these treatments is a kind of artistic styling for me. Is it suitable to try to capture the impressions of the visual observations of the Moon? I don't know - maybe I'll try one day :-)


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#398 semlin

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 06:50 PM

There is simply no single objective image seen with the eye - the eye's sensitivity changes constantly as we shift our eyes to objects of different brightness. This is why the HDR technique was invented in photography, consisting in composing several images exposed in different ways - so as to save both dark and light parts. However, the effect of these treatments is a kind of artistic styling for me. Is it suitable to try to capture the impressions of the visual observations of the Moon? I don't know - maybe I'll try one day :-)

 

i say embrace the art part and get the best images you can.  for me photography is only fun as art (although i am not a good artist).  i photograph with a mirrorless camera using old slr lenses to get away from standard iphone looking images.  i like the way the flaws and coatings in old lenses change the look, tone and feel of a photograph, and i like the way the different lens sizes frames the images.  i can also work very hard on an image and have it fall flat, and then my daughter grabs a great shot of the same thing with an ipone or a canon dslr on full auto and i am fine with that.

 

i am trying to figure out how to apply that philosophy to astrophotography.  i love the views through my old scopes but have not thought through how to try and capture them yet.  



#399 LukaszLu

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 07:55 PM

Well, unfortunately - every image that has the ambition to illustrate what the eye sees is just our subjective interpretation - there is no escaping it :-) We also have a problem with the technical capabilities of the equipment. All this together means that the objective image in astrophotography does not exist in my opinion - everything is an interpretation in the same way as the artist interprets what he sees (regardless of whether our effects have artistic value :-)) For me, the border between "honest "astrophotography and creative play is probably only local interference with the image. I consider the overall change of brightness, contrast, saturation, overall filtering, etc. to be "fair" or "objective". On the other hand, cutting out fragments that are subject to different processing and re-inserting them into the image, which is sometimes a popular technique in the case of DS astrophotography - it is creative fun for me, rather than astrophotography.


Edited by LukaszLu, 26 April 2021 - 07:57 PM.

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#400 LukaszLu

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 03:42 PM

On Sunday evening, wanting to celebrate the 2-week jubilee that had passed since my Polarex 114 lens was crushed, I directed the RAO R-74 to the Moon again. Unfortunately - our cosmic companion was this time low above the horizon, so the observation conditions were poor.

 

It was important because I wanted to try taking pictures with a Barlow lens. Will it be possible to get something more from this 76 mm lens with a higher magnification?

 

The experiment did not give a clear answer to this question. The image obtained with the Barlow lens contains slightly better defined details, but with such poor seeing it is difficult to judge.

 

I will have to wait for an answer until the Moon is back in the first quarter. Meanwhile, the first photo taken without a Barlow lens, right in the focus of the refractor.

 

Aristarchus - the brightest star of the Moon... Volcanic Mons Rumker and mysterious Reiner Gamma regions can also bee seen:

 

51142253817_2d334f5bde_o_d.jpg


Edited by LukaszLu, 27 April 2021 - 03:59 PM.

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