291 replies to this topic

[CrazyPanda]

http://www.cnn.com/2...tudy/index.html

I saw that article and had to laugh...the population majority don't care about us.  Politicians don't care about us.  We're weirdo geek minorities with no rights.  Some will say I'm being cynical or negative, but LP will NOT get better, it will get worse.  MUCH worse.

Yep. Same here. We barely have any laws in place to deal with actual toxic pollution. Good luck convincing people that light pollution is even "pollution".

[Astroman007]

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2...tudy/index.html

I saw that article and had to laugh...the population majority don't care about us.  Politicians don't care about us.  We're weirdo geek minorities with no rights.  Some will say I'm being cynical or negative, but LP will NOT get better, it will get worse.  MUCH worse.

 

Yep. Same here. We barely have any laws in place to deal with actual toxic pollution. Good luck convincing people that light pollution is even "pollution".

 

You can always try...or, if you did try before and didn't succeed, try again, harder. Let us never give up the fight to have our skies back!

Edited by Astroman007, 17 December 2017 - 08:52 PM.

[aatt]

Light pollution maps of the Eastern US look like a Petri dish that has almost been overgrown with microbes.

 

Maps of the Western US look like there aren't as many nutrients in the agar.  Not enough water?

 

Humans = microbes?

 

I think the proper term, if I remember the Matrix correctly, is virus.

Tried for the galaxy NGC 2908 last night.Transparency was not great, but the view was worse than I have ever seen it given that level of transparency historically and it was pretty late too... .I could basically see the core and the rest of the disc was mostly lost in the murk of light pollution. Looks my backyard is losing what ever utility it once had for galaxy work.The worm seems to have turned for the worse.Thanks LED streetlights! Really depressing and it is just going to get brighter and brighter.

Edited by aatt, 17 December 2017 - 10:25 PM.

[caveman_astronomer]

 

Light pollution maps of the Eastern US look like a Petri dish that has almost been overgrown with microbes.

 

Maps of the Western US look like there aren't as many nutrients in the agar.  Not enough water?

 

Humans = microbes?

 

I think the proper term, if I remember the Matrix correctly, is virus.

.....

An analogy that I have read compares humans to yeast, with speculations as to which is the more intelligent species.

[dpastern]

 

 

Light pollution maps of the Eastern US look like a Petri dish that has almost been overgrown with microbes.

 

Maps of the Western US look like there aren't as many nutrients in the agar.  Not enough water?

 

Humans = microbes?

 

I think the proper term, if I remember the Matrix correctly, is virus.

.....

An analogy that I have read compares humans to yeast, with speculations as to which is the more intelligent species.

 

I'm gonna put money on yeast (pretty confident I'll win too!).

[caveman_astronomer]

 

 

 

Light pollution maps of the Eastern US look like a Petri dish that has almost been overgrown with microbes.

 

Maps of the Western US look like there aren't as many nutrients in the agar.  Not enough water?

 

Humans = microbes?

 

I think the proper term, if I remember the Matrix correctly, is virus.

.....

An analogy that I have read compares humans to yeast, with speculations as to which is the more intelligent species.

 

I'm gonna put money on yeast (pretty confident I'll win too!).

 

The yeast do seem to have an easier time of it.

[Astroman007]

 

 

 

Light pollution maps of the Eastern US look like a Petri dish that has almost been overgrown with microbes.

 

Maps of the Western US look like there aren't as many nutrients in the agar.  Not enough water?

 

Humans = microbes?

 

I think the proper term, if I remember the Matrix correctly, is virus.

.....

An analogy that I have read compares humans to yeast, with speculations as to which is the more intelligent species.

 

I'm gonna put money on yeast (pretty confident I'll win too!).

 

I'll come in from a totally different direction altogether: how about fungus? Yeast is actually tasty and somewhat beneficial, you know.

[caveman_astronomer]

 

 

 

 

Light pollution maps of the Eastern US look like a Petri dish that has almost been overgrown with microbes.

 

Maps of the Western US look like there aren't as many nutrients in the agar.  Not enough water?

 

Humans = microbes?

 

I think the proper term, if I remember the Matrix correctly, is virus.

.....

An analogy that I have read compares humans to yeast, with speculations as to which is the more intelligent species.

 

I'm gonna put money on yeast (pretty confident I'll win too!).

 

I'll come in from a totally different direction altogether: how about fungus? Yeast is actually tasty and somewhat beneficial, you know.

 

Yeast = fungus

 

This is supposed to be helpful too:

 

https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/B0000CNU07

 

I've seen it in stores, but haven't tried it.

 

The Eastern US light pollution map really does look like a microbial culture of whatever type and in an advanced state of growth too.

Edited by caveman_astronomer, 18 December 2017 - 12:51 PM.

[dpastern]

 

 

 

 

Light pollution maps of the Eastern US look like a Petri dish that has almost been overgrown with microbes.

 

Maps of the Western US look like there aren't as many nutrients in the agar.  Not enough water?

 

Humans = microbes?

 

I think the proper term, if I remember the Matrix correctly, is virus.

.....

An analogy that I have read compares humans to yeast, with speculations as to which is the more intelligent species.

 

I'm gonna put money on yeast (pretty confident I'll win too!).

 

I'll come in from a totally different direction altogether: how about fungus? Yeast is actually tasty and somewhat beneficial, you know.

 

hey, I like my mushrooms (I'll eat them cooked, raw, you name it).  

[Phil Cowell]

 

 

I swear, these new LED lights are popping up like mushrooms. One my way home today, I discovered that a neighborhood gas station ......

That "glare bomb" on the right seems the worst thing in this picture. The white color is bad, but at least it is shielded.

 

There is nothing being done at this station that requires the light level seen. However, I bet that the station owner wants to protect himself from lawsuits claiming that someone was injured as a result of poor light levels. Another reason small businesses often want these high light levels: they believe that the brightness makes them stand out versus their competitors and thus they will get more business. 

 

This picture is a perfect advertisement for anti-LP laws that set a legal upper limit to lighting.

 

One other thing - most LED lighting can be easily adjusted in brightness - if wanted.

 

Hopefully, I'll be able to persuade the local community council that this is a visual blight on the neighborhood and get the station owner some bad press in the local newsletter. I also filed a complaint with the building department for violating the exterior lighting code, but who knows if they really enforce that section. If all that fails, I'm not sure what I can do. Maybe one of the neighbors would be willing to file suit if I took the case pro-bono.

 

None of the new poll mounted lights are shielded.  The old ones were, but he replaced them.

 

There is always the national press card to play and posting the city/town as a terrible place to visit on most of the travel sites. It takes some posting and forwarding links to the local council and gas station franchise owners. Bad publicity is the only card we have.

[Wire]

I have a street light directly across three street from my yard that I do my viewing along with me living in a shopping center district. It's frustrating at times because I'm limited to what I see at night maybe a couple dozen stars and planets. The shopping center lights never go off, on 24/7.

[Noah4x4]

My town, conscious of the effect of fossil fuels on climate change, implimented a policy of turning off "unnecessary" street lights between midnight and 04:00am. It was briefly bliss for local astronomers....

 

Then significant numbers of households started installing their own security lights. Whilst there was zero evidence of any increase in crime or accidents what then progressively happened was ever more street lights were argued as being "necessary". It was then realised that if a road has streetlights the speed limit is automatically 30mph unless otherwise stated and that caused anxiety about compliance if not illuminated. We now have more "necessary" lighting than we ever had before. The nearby Land Rover dealer leaves its (for sale) car lights on in the (closed) showroom overnight to highlight their design. I am sure the local sports club that finishes training at 21:00 deliberately leaves its (unnecessary) floodlights on until midnight just to spite me. I am now surrounded by illuminated hot tubs and gardens that are never occupied unless in daylight. 

 

Sometimes it pays NOT to draw attention to environmental concerns and light pollution. Then nobody is concious of their right to light; they stay indoors, don't notice the dark and never think about crime. 

[Matt Lindsey]

It's tough.  Our neighborhood experienced three home burglaries during the daytime recently, so now we have a very vocal long-time resident who wants the place "lit-up" at night.  It's the easy solution for everything crime related.  He even bought a bunch of blue bomb LED's and passed them out at the community meeting for everyone to replace their porch lights with.  When I offer an alternative viewpoint, it just comes off as the ramblings of a crank.  The police advise leaving lights on so who am I to say otherwise? 

 

Very difficult to get traction, but I politely keep trying.  What else can we do?

[TareqPhoto]

It's tough.  Our neighborhood experienced three home burglaries during the daytime recently, so now we have a very vocal long-time resident who wants the place "lit-up" at night.  It's the easy solution for everything crime related.  He even bought a bunch of blue bomb LED's and passed them out at the community meeting for everyone to replace their porch lights with.  When I offer an alternative viewpoint, it just comes off as the ramblings of a crank.  The police advise leaving lights on so who am I to say otherwise? 

 

Very difficult to get traction, but I politely keep trying.  What else can we do?

I can imagine, i feel my town or everywhere here will all vote or put more lights and never care who wants some darkness or less lights around, so we are who love astronomy our voices are lost, i will pray that it won't get worse than now, at least from my yard i still can imaging targets enough, i can't imagine one day i can't, and they are still depending on yellow/orange lights, only one or two main street that is far away from my house, and sooner or later someone or 2 will build houses in front of mine or opposite my house the other side of the road in front of my house, that will cover the street light in distance so it will minimize the LP on my yard, BUT, those new houses may install LED lights, i have LED lights too on my house, but i turn them off when i do astronomy things.

[earlyriser]

It's tough.  Our neighborhood experienced three home burglaries during the daytime recently, so now we have a very vocal long-time resident who wants the place "lit-up" at night.  It's the easy solution for everything crime related.  He even bought a bunch of blue bomb LED's and passed them out at the community meeting for everyone to replace their porch lights with.  When I offer an alternative viewpoint, it just comes off as the ramblings of a crank.  The police advise leaving lights on so who am I to say otherwise? 

 

Very difficult to get traction, but I politely keep trying.  What else can we do?

So this guy's solution to daytime burglaries is to install brighter porch lights, and you are the crank.

 

On another note, I reached out to the local Audubon Society to see if I could get them interested in fighting light pollution. Turns out that they are already trying to get a Lights Out Cincinnati event going, so I'll be attending that meeting. Maybe if we can get enough different groups to complain to city hall, we can get some traction. I figure even a hundred people would be enough to make an impression if we all wrote/emailed/showed up at meetings.

[earlyriser]

We haven't had any pictures in awhile, so here's one. This is the EMD Millipore Plant at 2909 Highland Ave in Norwood Ohio. The plant operates 24/7, so the lights are on all night every night. This is just from one side, but it's representative of how the whole place is lit up.

 

Edited by earlyriser, 07 March 2018 - 12:42 PM.

[bumm]

It's tough.  Our neighborhood experienced three home burglaries during the daytime recently, so now we have a very vocal long-time resident who wants the place "lit-up" at night.  It's the easy solution for everything crime related.  He even bought a bunch of blue bomb LED's and passed them out at the community meeting for everyone to replace their porch lights with.  When I offer an alternative viewpoint, it just comes off as the ramblings of a crank.  The police advise leaving lights on so who am I to say otherwise? 

 

Very difficult to get traction, but I politely keep trying.  What else can we do?

I might have a tendency to say, "If somebody wants to rob my place, I'm not gonna light it up for 'em."  No, it wouldn't do any good, but we've gotta plant seeds.

                                                                                                                                                                                       Marty

[George N]

We haven't had any pictures in awhile, so here's one. This is the EMD Millipore Plant at 2909 Highland Ave in Norwood Ohio. The plant operates 24/7, so the lights are on all night every night. This is just from one side, but it's representative of how the whole place is lit up.

 

chemical plant C.jpg

 

Looks like that plant could get away with half the brightness - and some good shielding.

 

Also of note: they seem to lighting up a huge empty parking area!

[George N]

 

It's tough.  Our neighborhood experienced three home burglaries during the daytime recently, ........

 

Very difficult to get traction, but I politely keep trying.  What else can we do?

So this guy's solution to daytime burglaries is to install brighter porch lights, and you are the crank.

 

On another note, I reached out to the local Audubon Society to see if I could get them interested in fighting light pollution. Turns out that they are already trying to get a Lights Out Cincinnati event going, so I'll be attending that meeting. Maybe if we can get enough different groups to complain to city hall, we can get some traction. I figure even a hundred people would be enough to make an impression if we all wrote/emailed/showed up at meetings.

 

As I posted in this area before, I think the best leverage to achieve better anti-LP law will come from the environmental and health aspects.

 

We 'astronomers' should do just what was done here -  spend our efforts talking to groups like Audubon and local public health officials.

[George N]

I have some friends who live in the Town of Union, Broom Co, NY's Southern Tier.

 

This Town has an excellent anti-LP Law. Except it exempts the Town itself from compliance - and they control the street lights. 

[Phil Cowell]

I might have a tendency to say, "If somebody wants to rob my place, I'm not gonna light it up for 'em."  No, it wouldn't do any good, but we've gotta plant seeds.

                                                                                                                                                                                       Marty

The flashes of light if someone broke into my house would be very brief. 20-30 minutes later night vision would be resumed.

[Phil Cowell]

I have some friends who live in the Town of Union, Broom Co, NY's Southern Tier.

 

This Town has an excellent anti-LP Law. Except it exempts the Town itself from compliance - and they control the street lights. 

The rural street lights they installed are excellent. 

[Phil Cowell]

I have some friends who live in the Town of Union, Broom Co, NY's Southern Tier.

 

This Town has an excellent anti-LP Law. Except it exempts the Town itself from compliance - and they control the street lights. 

It’s good though that folks in Broome County helped craft the law even if there are some flaws, than just whine about it and do nothing. It gives folks recourse against idiot neighbors with bright lights. Much better than folks playing what about  . It’s a good part of the country to live it’s why we’re in upstate George  snow and all.

[John Fitzgerald]

From much reading, research and personal knowledge, it appears that rural, dark site areas have increasing crime and less law enforcement, mainly due to drugs like meth and from budgets being cut.  It's becoming more dangerous out there.  Be careful, and be vigilant at isolated sites.

[Phil Cowell]

From much reading, research and personal knowledge, it appears that rural, dark site areas have increasing crime and less law enforcement, mainly due to drugs like meth and from budgets being cut.  It's becoming more dangerous out there.  Be careful, and be vigilant at isolated sites.

Most of that is due to chemicals being stolen from farms to make the junk.

Its area dependent as well most are making for a market. So a near by large city is another factor.