291 replies to this topic

[earlyriser]

I can't imagine too many meth-heads are hanging out at the local astronomical society's dark sky site in the middle of the night waiting to mug an astronomer. You are much more likely to get killed in a car wreck on the way there.

[Jake21]

 

 

[Kendahl]

From much reading, research and personal knowledge, it appears that rural, dark site areas have increasing crime and less law enforcement, mainly due to drugs like meth and from budgets being cut.  It's becoming more dangerous out there.  Be careful, and be vigilant at isolated sites.

 

Most of that is due to chemicals being stolen from farms to make the junk.

Its area dependent as well most are making for a market. So a near by large city is another factor.

That used to be a problem when meth was cooked locally. Now, it's imported from Latin America. That's not to say there aren't just as many addicts in search of ways to finance their next high.

 

My wife and I do most of our observing at unlighted rural parks and recreation areas. Typically, there is no one with any authority. Neither a campground host nor a sheriff's deputy. My biggest worries are vandals and rowdy drunks. So far, we haven't encountered the former and the only drunks have been well behaved.

[cbwerner]

My wife and I do most of our observing at unlighted rural parks and recreation areas. Typically, there is no one with any authority. Neither a campground host nor a sheriff's deputy. My biggest worries are vandals and rowdy drunks. So far, we haven't encountered the former and the only drunks have been well behaved.

That's my experience as well, minus any drunks whatsoever but with the occasional deputy. We do try to make sure we call the local sheriff's office to tell them we will be there as they are alert to such things and appreciate the heads up. They've even stopped by to take a peak through the scopes. But never have I felt even remotely unsafe there. And it's a pretty awesome observing site. Props to The Ardent, who is the one that put me onto it. 

[earlyriser]

These lights just went up about a week ago behind a building that has a list of building code violations a mile long. Not sure why the owners are spending money on new lights when they have roof leaks and broken windows. You can gauge the intensity by comparison to the HPS streetlight to the right. 5000K blue light specials, of course. 

 

 

I think I'll reach out to the owner to see if they are willing to work with me to add some shielding. Assuming that effort fails, the next step would be to raise the tenants' awareness of the potential health risks of nocturnal exposure to blue-rich lighting. Local ordinances don't really give me any leverage to get the owners to make some changes as far as I can tell. But maybe a tenant revolt would get their attention.

I'm almost afraid to post this, but for some reason, these lights have been off for the past few weeks. Maybe a tenant complained about the light coming in their window or the landlord got a big electric bill?

Edited by earlyriser, 27 March 2018 - 04:58 PM.

[gazerjim]

I wish I could envision a scenario in which LP would be moderated by legal statute.  It would be hard to place an exact percentage number on how much outdoor lighting serves a real purpose vs how much is there for purposes of vanity and on-site advertising after dark.  Maybe someone knows.

 

 I often wonder how many people in the industrialized world have ever seen a truly dark sky.  

 

Would our population be a little healthier without blue-white light in their eyes near bedtimes ?   I am betting it would.

 

Oh well. Helps to vent a little in any case.

[sg6]

Seems I now have a white LED light where I used to have a yellow sodium one, could be higher up but not sure. Didn't really take a lot of notice of the yellow one.

Wonder when they sneaked that one in?

 

Have to wait and see if it still goes off at midnight.

[Slabs1960]

I am currently on a long term contract in Namibia (West Coast, small town). Crime is so to say non-existent here. The LP used to be very low in my garden. Now I have two new neighbors'. The one lease his porch light on day and night. The other has installed two (2), yes two spotlights that shine onto the street.  As a result I am unable to view objects to the west of my viewing location. It washes out all stars.

[gazerjim]

I had a minor brain glitch recently about public outreach in favor of dark sky appreciation. 

 

Hardly a day goes by when we don't hear something in the media about Virtual Reality.  Does a VR setup for viewing a truly dark sky exist?  Fewer and fewer people on this planet have even once experienced the beauty of the heavens as they should really appear.  Perhaps the experience of a clear dark sky filled with stars would help our cause.  Just wondering....

[earlyriser]

I had a minor brain glitch recently about public outreach in favor of dark sky appreciation. 

 

Hardly a day goes by when we don't hear something in the media about Virtual Reality.  Does a VR setup for viewing a truly dark sky exist?  Fewer and fewer people on this planet have even once experienced the beauty of the heavens as they should really appear.  Perhaps the experience of a clear dark sky filled with stars would help our cause.  Just wondering....

When I was a kid back in the 1970's, Cincinnati had a planetarium. At the start of the show, they projected the sky like it looked from Cincinnati whatever time of year it was. After pointing some things out, the narrator would say "Now, let's go to the country", and turned off the background lights simulating the local light pollution. The first time I saw that, I was hooked. The difference was shocking and amplified by the suddenness of the change.  So, yeah. I think VR could really step in, fill the void, and let people know what they are missing.

[gazerjim]

When I was a kid back in the 1970's, Cincinnati had a planetarium. At the start of the show, they projected the sky like it looked from Cincinnati whatever time of year it was. After pointing some things out, the narrator would say "Now, let's go to the country", and turned off the background lights simulating the local light pollution. The first time I saw that, I was hooked. The difference was shocking and amplified by the suddenness of the change.  So, yeah. I think VR could really step in, fill the void, and let people know what they are missing.

I know what you mean.  I worked at a small college planetarium during summer months  way back in olden times.  And the presenter would usually begin the presentation with the same routine.  It was awesome and usually elicited  'oohs' and 'aahs' from the audience.

[rquiroga]

I have a church next door that has the LED lights set at a 45 degree angle. They are directed right at my apartment and observing field. The glare is horrible. Not only is the field lit up but the lights are bright enough to reflect off my apartments walls 150 yards away, which renders shielding my scope ineffectual. Also they shine directly into my bedroom.

[sg6]

After finding they had sneaked in a new LED light at the end of my road, which in honesty made little difference. They went and sneaked in a LED relacement along the pavement opposite me.

 

Minor problem here for the LP forum bit, it is darker now.

The new LED light is small and it is low. The previous sodium used to illuminate my bathroom at night. The new one doesn't, it is basically darker all round.

 

I guess the new one is doing as it should - aiming the light at where it is intended = downwards and at/alone the pavement. Will say that any car parked under the new lamp is well illuminated and scatters light everywhere.

 

Also they have reinstated the switch off at midnight philosophy, so at midnight relative darkness at least for the middle of a small town.

[gazerjim]

The new LED light is small and it is low.

Better than large and bright for sure.  But a sizeable percentage of the skyglow we all know so well is caused by light reflected from buildings and pavement upward where we can all enjoy it.   Perhaps we could all go on a street and building black flocking spree while no one is watching.  Many of us are up all night anyway.

[Phil Cowell]

That used to be a problem when meth was cooked locally. Now, it's imported from Latin America. That's not to say there aren't just as many addicts in search of ways to finance their next high.

 

My wife and I do most of our observing at unlighted rural parks and recreation areas. Typically, there is no one with any authority. Neither a campground host nor a sheriff's deputy. My biggest worries are vandals and rowdy drunks. So far, we haven't encountered the former and the only drunks have been well behaved.

Up here in the NE it’s made locally. The druggies break into farms to steal some of the chemicals.

[Phil Cowell]

When I was a kid back in the 1970's, Cincinnati had a planetarium. At the start of the show, they projected the sky like it looked from Cincinnati whatever time of year it was. After pointing some things out, the narrator would say "Now, let's go to the country", and turned off the background lights simulating the local light pollution. The first time I saw that, I was hooked. The difference was shocking and amplified by the suddenness of the change.  So, yeah. I think VR could really step in, fill the void, and let people know what they are missing.

If you can write a little code you can Integrate an Oculus too an EAA feed.

Real fed from your own NRT camera.

I’ll sit back and wait for the look at Hubble images online comments getting dusted off again.

[jcj380]

There's a country club which is quite visible from my deck that has several outdoor security lamps mounted on their building.  Maybe 3-4 on each side.  They were all sodium vapor lamps, but the lamp nearest me has been replaced with a daylight LED.  It's just far enough away that the light appears at eye level when I'm outside.  Blockable with my DIY screen, but not ideal.  Hoping for more screening once the trees leaf out all the way.

 

But minor compared to red zone skies.

[earlyriser]

Got another one, which makes it the fifth new lighting installation in my neighborhood since March 2017. This is the Sunoco. The good news is that unlike the other installations, this one is using low color temperature lighting - certainly less than 2700K. The canopy lights are not new, but the three yellow/amber lights are.

 

The main issues are (1) excessive glare and uplight, and (2) over illumination. Thankfully, the two lights on poles in the background are turned off after closing time, as is shown in the bottom image. The length of these lights makes fitting shields impractical. If they could be turned 90 degrees, then effective shields would be easy.

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[earlyriser]

I took me about a year total from the time I filed the first complaint until I installed the final shield, but here are some before and after pictures for the installation that inspired this thread. The images show the reduction in glare, but the real improvement is in the elimination of direct uplight. I figure before installation, 35% of the light was being radiated directly into the sky. Added to the light reflected from the ground (assuming 15% reflection from asphalt surface) meant that 42% of the light ended up in the sky. After installation, I figure it's below 15% total since it is all ground light - or about one third what it was. 

 

I have no idea how much time I spent on this. I'm guessing at least 60 hours to build and install 12 shields. Plus, I spent a couple of hundred on sheet aluminum and other hardware. But, I did get over my fear of heights in the process. Those poles may not look that high, but when you are on a ladder trying to screw a light shield onto a light fixture, they are plenty high.

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Edited by earlyriser, 02 June 2018 - 03:17 PM.

[cbwerner]

Nice difference!

[earlyriser]

We haven't had any pictures in awhile, so here's one. This is the EMD Millipore Plant at 2909 Highland Ave in Norwood Ohio. The plant operates 24/7, so the lights are on all night every night. This is just from one side, but it's representative of how the whole place is lit up.

 

chemical plant C.jpg

I stumbled across this document trying to figure out who to contact about adjusting the lights at the EMD Millipore Plant. I wonder if EcoEngineering would consider taking into account the environmental impact of spill light as well as the energy consumption when designing their lighting solutions?

 

https://ecoengineeri...-Case-Study.pdf

 

edited to add:

 

I've identified a contact at EcoEngineering and have reached out to him to see if I can start a dialog on good lighting practices. I plan to use the recommended lighting practices (see below) resulting from the collaborative effort by the Permian Basin Petroleum Association, the Texas Oil and Gas Association, and the McDonald Observatory as a template to guide our conversation.

 

https://mcdonaldobse..._rev180215a.pdf

Edited by earlyriser, 25 July 2018 - 07:01 AM.

[Jake21]

I have never seen anything worse than this in my neighborhood. 

 

 

 

 

[Astroman007]

^^ Horrible! I almost get a light-induced headache just by looking at the photo...

[Jake21]

^^ Horrible! I almost get a light-induced headache just by looking at the photo...

 

The houses in my neighborhood are either dark or bright as can be. I rarely see houses that can be placed in the middle on the spectrum.

 

I asked the owner of the house in the photo if he could shield his backyard lights downward when feasible. He ended up only turning the two blue colored lights off. I guess that's better than no change at all. 

[tchandler]

Observing in my city has made it necessary to seek out a dwindling number of dark locales that are not subject to direct light trespass. Sky glow is unavoidable, but there are a few places where the local configurations of light fixtures and strategically located trees are reasonably effective at giving me a fighting chance to see. 

 

This past weekend I went to stargaze in my friend's city, which is less familiar to me. Several places to set up the telescope were suggested (schools, churches, and other public spaces). When we got to them, each had enormous floodlights that lit heaven and Earth. If these lights could speak, it would be all caps and I would need to flagrantly violate the TOS to share it with you. After the third unsuccessful reconnaissance visit, my friend said - this is ridiculous. "Now do you see what I'm up against?", I replied.

 

We eventually found a relatively dark site in a graveyard behind a church, although there was still one cobra head streetlight about 300 yards away, as if flipping us a luminous bird. It was far enough away to allow a look at planets.