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Why is Takahashi overly expensive?

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#201 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 05:52 PM

Takahashi has constructed a 300mm fluorite triplet, as well.

 

http://www.takahashi.../en/FET-300.php

 

Dave Mitsky



#202 Klitwo

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 05:58 PM

Here are a couple photos (1st. and 2nd. link) of their Takahashi FCT 250 10-inch f/10 observatory refractor that was offered starting in 1991...Big Big money!  See the following links.

 

Klitwo

 

 

http://www.astrosurf...shi/FCT-250.gif

 

http://www.astrosurf...em3500_2000.jpg

 

http://www.astrosurf...ahashi_fct.html

 

http://www.astrosurf.../takahashi.html


Edited by Klitwo, 17 April 2017 - 06:38 PM.

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#203 Starman1

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:02 PM

The phrase, "Gort, Klaatu barada nikto" is from the movie "The Day the Earth Stood Still".

What film is Klitwo from?  "To Serve Man"?



#204 Klitwo

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:07 PM

The phrase, "Gort, Klaatu barada nikto" is from the movie "The Day the Earth Stood Still".

What film is Klitwo from?  "To Serve Man"?

"The Day The Earth Stood Still" (Circa: 1951)....Michael Rennie played Klaatu

 

Richard Kiel played the tall alien in Twilight Zone's "To Serve Man"...He had no real alien name...except Kanamit maybe.... 

 

Klitwo

 

https://en.wikipedia..._Twilight_Zone)

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=vdl24bLAs1k


Edited by Klitwo, 17 April 2017 - 06:35 PM.


#205 xiando

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:41 PM

You are aware that was a short story which Twilight zone produced into a TV episode right? Just wanted credit given where credit is actually due, which is rarely anywhere near Hollywad... That would be "Twilight Zone's interpretation of Damon Knight's creative work"



#206 overnight

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:47 PM

Going on a tangent here....


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#207 Phil Cowell

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:47 PM

 

Don't know whether they still do, but Takahashi used to offer a 10" observatory refractor with mount for $277,000...

Can anyone spell binoscope? laugh.gif

 

The binoscope would be less than the cost of a Bentley Mulsanne extended wheelbase sedan.

Easier to justify that way grin.gif.  



#208 overnight

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:50 PM

 

 

Don't know whether they still do, but Takahashi used to offer a 10" observatory refractor with mount for $277,000...

Can anyone spell binoscope? laugh.gif

 

The binoscope would be less than the cost of a Bentley Mulsanne extended wheelbase sedan.

Easier to justify that way grin.gif.  

 

The views would be absolutely splendid though.... Better way to justify is to look through it.


Edited by overnight, 17 April 2017 - 06:51 PM.


#209 Klitwo

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 06:58 PM

You are aware that was a short story which Twilight zone produced into a TV episode right? Just wanted credit given where credit is actually due, which is rarely anywhere near Hollywad... That would be "Twilight Zone's interpretation of Damon Knight's creative work"

My previous post #204 contains the Wikipedia wiki about the "To Serve Man" episode and Damon Knight....Check it out   >  https://en.wikipedia..._Twilight_Zone)

 

Klitwo


Edited by Klitwo, 17 April 2017 - 07:03 PM.


#210 Starman1

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:04 PM

It might look like this (in my imagination): http://www.professio...30cm-Super-Bino


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#211 overnight

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:07 PM

It might look like this (in my imagination): http://www.professio...30cm-Super-Bino

2 12" APO refractor f/7.5 scopes in a bino configuration on a super mount? laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif bow.gif

 

Any appraisals? Can't seem to find the price.... Not like I'm considering it.


Edited by overnight, 17 April 2017 - 07:08 PM.


#212 Klitwo

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:11 PM

 

 

 

Don't know whether they still do, but Takahashi used to offer a 10" observatory refractor with mount for $277,000...

Can anyone spell binoscope? laugh.gif

 

The binoscope would be less than the cost of a Bentley Mulsanne extended wheelbase sedan.

Easier to justify that way grin.gif.  

 

The views would be absolutely splendid though.... Better way to justify is to look through it.

 

Takahashi would have to come up with something pretty special inorder to beat this Japanese guy's 10-inch f/10 APO bino....See the following link.

 

http://i.picasion.co...57f4ed5f874.gif


Edited by Klitwo, 17 April 2017 - 07:22 PM.

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#213 overnight

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:13 PM

Where did you get that from?



#214 Klitwo

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 07:15 PM

 

It might look like this (in my imagination): http://www.professio...30cm-Super-Bino

2 12" APO refractor f/7.5 scopes in a bino configuration on a super mount? laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif bow.gif

 

Any appraisals? Can't seem to find the price.... Not like I'm considering it.

 

A Chinese guy with very deep pockets paid about $500K for it (key word is "about")...It has a nice observatory home in China now (about 4 years ago)....This is actually an old Jan. 2013 CN story....

 

https://www.cloudyni...-apo-binocular/

 

Klitwo

 

P.S.  Soon 10 and 12-inch APO binos will become "old news" (actually they already are).  A 16-inch APO bino is already in the works....


Edited by Klitwo, 17 April 2017 - 08:28 PM.


#215 spencerj

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:13 AM

 

Personally it doesn't matter what kind of telescope you have to observe the heavens with....whether it's a Takahashi, Celestron or any other.  If you're satisfied with it's performance regardless of how much you paid for it...then that's all that counts...right?

 

Klitwo

 

That is all that counts for "most" people on this thread . . .



#216 csrlice12

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:42 AM

 

I am a duffer class astronomer. So many on this forum have skills and knowledge well beyond mine but I can see and appreciate the quality of view in a premium scope. I started many years ago with a department store Tasco and have taken the stair step method of upgrading as I go. I now own a Lunt, two Celestron's, and two Takahashi's. I was very reluctant to buy the Tak's because of price, in fact I purchased excellent but short of the mark scopes hoping to be satisfied. Comparing my scopes to other astronomers Takahashi's at star parties convinced me to give in. Their quality of view is not hype. Takahashi is not alone when it comes to optical excellence although it is a very small crowd. I am going to be on this planet for a short time and am going to enjoy it the best I can.

BTW a five ton truck can haul more bricks than a van. Does that make a van useless? I think not!

Bruce

Park your van for two mins in down town NYC and you'll still have bricks. Might not have wheels but bricks yeah.

 

Unless you're building a house, then the bricks will probably be missing too.  Besides, real astronomy stars smash their Taks to pieces after an observing session....or is that rock stars and Les Pauls...


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#217 noisejammer

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 03:02 PM

Takahashi would have to come up with something pretty special inorder to beat this Japanese guy's 10-inch f/10 APO bino....See the following link.

 

http://i.picasion.co...57f4ed5f874.gif

 

Anyone notice that it's using Tak tube rings?



#218 2LiveAndDieInLA

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 03:17 PM

 

Don't know whether they still do, but Takahashi used to offer a 10" observatory refractor with mount for $277,000.00

I think that may be the most expensive refractor and mount combo I've ever seen.

Yes, I remember seeing a picture of that scope.

 

Here's another 10" apochromat that's no longer available.

 

http://apm-telescope...com/item/363132

 

Dave Mitsky

 

Looks like they had a 325mm offered on their website:  http://www.apm-teles...-cnc-lw-ii.html

 

I wonder what the prices were.


Edited by 2LiveAndDieInLA, 18 April 2017 - 03:17 PM.


#219 Klitwo

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 04:43 PM

If someone has "deep enough" pockets...then this APM/LZOS 20-inch (510mm) APO beauty will materialize as an APO bino in someone's backyard observatory someday...don't bet against it! See the following link.

P.S. When it comes to building a big bino...The old saying goes: "If it can be built...it will be built".....

Klitwo

http://www.professio...-51cm-Giant-Apo

Edited by Klitwo, 18 April 2017 - 06:30 PM.


#220 The Ardent

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:08 PM

So which Takahashi scope do you have? It appears you have a keen interest in them.

If someone has "deep enough" pockets...then this APM/LZOS 20-inch (510mm) APO beauty will materialize as an APO bino in someone's backyard observatory someday...don't bet against it! See the following link.

P.S. When it comes to building a big bino...The old saying goes: "If it can be built...it will be built".....

Klitwo

http://www.professio...-51cm-Giant-Apo



#221 Klitwo

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:23 PM

So which Takahashi scope do you have? It appears you have a keen interest in them.



If someone has "deep enough" pockets...then this APM/LZOS 20-inch (510mm) APO beauty will materialize as an APO bino in someone's backyard observatory someday...don't bet against it! See the following link.

P.S. When it comes to building a big bino...The old saying goes: "If it can be built...it will be built".....

Klitwo

http://www.professio...-51cm-Giant-Apo

 

Glad you asked. I have an interest in "all" scopes...especially "binos" of all sizes, types (commercial and homemade) and their history. The "only" thing that interests me about Takahashi's...is the history of their telescopes and the company.

Klitwo


Edited by Klitwo, 18 April 2017 - 09:10 PM.


#222 Starkid2u

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:49 PM

How does $49,000 grab you? wink.gif

 

http://www.buytelesc...efractor-146565

 

A 10" TEC APO250VT triplet apochromat at this year's NEAF...
 

Dave Mitsky

Seen at this year's WSP first! 

 

STARKID2U



#223 The Ardent

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:52 PM

So is there a better refractor made today , for average consumer , in any size compared to a Tak?

Other than the AP 130 and TEC 140?

#224 Kunama

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:24 AM

So is there a better refractor made today , for average consumer , in any size compared to a Tak?

Other than the AP 130 and TEC 140?

 

 

 

BETTER  can mean so many different things to different people.  Some will not like the weight of my TOA130NFB, some will not like the cooling time it sometimes requires, some will not like the focuser, some will not like the colour scheme......

then there is the length, focal ratio, accessories etc etc to consider......

 

BUT I doubt anyone could complain about the image quality this magnificent scope shows you once properly cooled to ambient.....  it is as near to perfect as I have ever seen in a telescope during the last 40 years for its aperture. bow.gif 

 

So for me, it is not overpriced at all, just expensive !!!

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Edited by Kunama, 19 April 2017 - 03:12 AM.

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#225 dgoldb

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 12:53 PM

 

Given the first rate and expensive glass and materials,  and the skilled labor and time to construct a Tak,  why shouldn't they be expensive ?

Craftsmanship comes with a cost. They do make fine telescopes. 

 

The first time you build something yourself, on a one-off basis / with your hands, you quickly realize how insanely expensive it is to manufacture things the "old" way, versus how incredibly efficient mass manufacturing is.  You also appreciate how much finer the craftsmanship is when you do things slowly and methodically, with attention to detail.  It is all at once incredibly inefficient and incredibly high quality.  As others have mentioned, you improve the quality a lot less than you increase the cost.  

 

By way of example, I once built my own desk from 300 year old reclaimed wood used in an an old cotton refinery.  I took a while to hand select which boards I wanted to use.  Then, rather than drill out the old rusted nails (which would have left unsightly gashes), I had to carefully chisel them out by hand.  I sanded to 800 grit instead of 250.  I hand-oiled the finish instead of varnish.  On and on.  It took me probably 200 hours to make it perfect - down to the last detail.  Multiply 200 hours by even $20 an hour (which is low), and you have a $4,000 desk.  If you mass-manufactured the same product, I have no doubt you could do it in no more than 25-40 hours, and most of it would be done by machine.  Probably cost $250-350.  You'd miss out on the quality that I put into it - but gain far more value.

 

That is all to say: once you start having humans do unique and individualized work on a piece - with attention to small differences in the product - rather than the machines doing standardized and repetitive actions - the price skyrockets.  Quality goes up as well - but not by a commensurate amount.    


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