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Meade series 5000 SWA

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#51 rweust

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 04:32 PM

Nice fitting solution for that 24/68 eyepiece, SteveG.

 

Regretfully I own the 16 mm Meade 5000 SWA eyepiece. It has an outside diameter of 35 mm. Agena doesn’t supply a fitting eye guard, as far as I can see.

 

Today, I worked a bit on the decloaked 40mm 68 deg Maxvision eyepiece. This eyepiece has an ER of 31,11 mm. The eye lens is about 6 mm thick so it is 3 mm till the middle of the lens. The lens is a concave so you need another 7 mm from the center till the top flat of the decloacked eyepiece. From the top flat of the eyepiece 31-10 = 21 mm is left to reach your eye.

 

With an Agenta AstroProducts rubber eye guard (40 mm ID) I can create an extra supporting and shielding height of 15 mm plus a 2 mm thick glued (with double sided tape) aluminum plate on top of this eyepiece. My eye seems to be also 4 mm deeper than the edge of the rubber eye guard, because this way I can comfortably see the whole widefield still with a sharp fieldstop edge.

 

I my opinion these bigger eyepieces all need good eye support to help you with the right distance. If you get to close with your eye to the lens, the fieldstop edge starts blurring and with this 40 mm eyepiece the view will start vignetitng. If the eye distance is to large, you lose a part of the widefield.

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oogrubber%20ringen%202-Model_zpscuixurni

 

It's not ready yet, but it 's becomming a nice and comfortable set of eyepieces, already.

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IMG_20170520_223028764_zpsanejdu8g.png

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IMG_20170520_223017208_zpszzpz3mng.png

 

Robert.


Edited by rweust, 21 May 2017 - 04:14 AM.


#52 Sarkikos

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 08:20 PM

 

Better? what is better? I've tried Panoptics, and I prefer the Meade or the ES. Better light scatter control in the Panoptics some have said, but who's looking at fairly "bright" things in a long FL eyepiece?

Lack of scatter would help in picking out the nebulosity in the Pleiades.

 

 

Unless, you're using an SCT and need the longer FL eyepiece for scatter control, I see no BIG differences.

Actually, there probably isn't a big difference in scatter, regardless of scope. From what I hear, they're all pretty good, so I can see why you might prefer the Meades or Explore Scientifics.

 

I've seen the reflection nebulae around the brighter stars in the Pleiades through several telescopes here in a bright red zone.  One of them was an ST120 with a Meade 5000 UWA 24mm in the focuser.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 21 May 2017 - 11:33 AM.


#53 starbase25

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:38 AM

 

Better? what is better? I've tried Panoptics, and I prefer the Meade or the ES. Better light scatter control in the Panoptics some have said, but who's looking at fairly "bright" things in a long FL eyepiece?

Lack of scatter would help in picking out the nebulosity in the Pleiades.

 

 

Unless, you're using an SCT and need the longer FL eyepiece for scatter control, I see no BIG differences.

Actually, there probably isn't a big difference in scatter, regardless of scope. From what I hear, they're all pretty good, so I can see why you might prefer the Meades or Explore Scientifics.

 

Picking out nebulosity in the Pleiades. Sure if your sky is a gray zone or black.  In my neck of the woods, picking out nebulosity in m-45 is impossible. FYI, as Don Pensack has said, there's slightly more scatter in the ES 68's.

 

This is of course a personal preference and should not be presented as a general rule. I myself don't wear glasses and really prefer a supporting and light shielding, rubber eye guard. This way providing for an optimal and comfortable eye position. My son does wear glasses, though, so that is why I made it easily detachable.

Robert.

 

Yes indeed. Highly a personal preference. I do not use glasses when I observe, and I still prefer the Meade 5000's without the bulbous cover or anything. I just use them with nothing on the eyepiece and have no problems holding the view. if I have a need to shield my eyes from any stray light, I just cup my hands around the eyepiece.

 

PS: If your son has to remove his glasses when he needs to observe, the EP's would have been much easier to use without all of that work. Without glasses it's easy to hold your eye position without a rubber eyecup on these, if you're an experienced observer. Many newbs have trouble with these without any eye cups.

 

Just seems like an extra bit of a hassle if you do wear glasses and use them this way IMO.

 

YMMV.


Edited by starbase25, 21 May 2017 - 10:55 AM.


#54 starbase25

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:48 AM

 

 

......

No need for all of this. Just use the EP without the outer casing, very easy to use, unless you're a beginner.

 

This is of course a personal preference and should not be presented as a general rule. I myself don't wear glasses and really prefer a supporting and light shielding, rubber eye guard. This way providing for an optimal and comfortable eye position. My son does wear glasses, though, so that is why I made it easily detachable.

 

Robert.

 

P.S. when quoting, please delete the picture URL’s from the quote, otherwise the pictures are posted several times, making the topic difficult to follow. But you're forgiven, it is a mistake a lot of beginners make. wink.gif 

 

I leave the pics in quotes there on purpose to show what I am referring to. grin.gif  PS: I wasn't implying that YOU are a beginner, which I can tell you had thought by your reply.


Edited by starbase25, 21 May 2017 - 10:53 AM.


#55 starbase25

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:56 AM

 

 

Better? what is better? I've tried Panoptics, and I prefer the Meade or the ES. Better light scatter control in the Panoptics some have said, but who's looking at fairly "bright" things in a long FL eyepiece?

Lack of scatter would help in picking out the nebulosity in the Pleiades.

 

 

Unless, you're using an SCT and need the longer FL eyepiece for scatter control, I see no BIG differences.

Actually, there probably isn't a big difference in scatter, regardless of scope. From what I hear, they're all pretty good, so I can see why you might prefer the Meades or Explore Scientifics.

 

I've seen the reflection nebulae around the brighter stars in the Pleiades through several telescopes here in a bright read zone.  One of them was an ST120 with a Meade 5000 UWA 24mm in the focuser.

 

Mike

 

That's great.

 

I've tried several times.  NADA. 

 

Anyways, the main topic here is eyecups vs no eyecups. All a personal preference to eye positioning, and also how deeply set one's eyes are, etc. I find the eyecups better rolled down even though I do own one ES version. Some like them up. 

I find the Meade 5000 SWA's perfect with the bulbous cover off and nothing on them. If someone comes by my telescope and they use glasses. Just seems like a hassle here if you'd have to remove the rubber eyecups off the ones in the pics above. shrug.gif

 

But now that I think about it, the 40mm would prob be better with the eycup. The eye relief on the 40mm is so long, you could prob view thru it across the street. LOL

 

I also decloaked a 28 mm 68 deg Maxvision. I'm still working on the 16 mm Meade 5000 SWA and the 40 mm 68 deg Maxvision I recently bought as exhibition leftover from Bresser Germany. This will provide for a nice, lean, wide angle eyepiece set for an excellent price/quality ratio. The 16 mm Meade I once took over in almost new state for EUR 80,- years ago, the 28 mm Maxvision was for a few years also on sale for about EUR 100,- (new) and the 40 mm Maxvision I recently bought in absolute new state for EUR 125,-. The set of 3 wide angle eyepieces cost me only a little over EUR 300,- in total.

 

The 16mm won't need it because the eye relief is already super tight to begin with.


Edited by starbase25, 21 May 2017 - 11:21 AM.

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#56 clusterbuster

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 11:11 AM

Meade 5000 EPs are Very Good.

Mark



#57 rweust

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 11:19 AM

@starbase25

 

Observing without glasses, if you normally wear them, and correcting the dioptric with your focus, regretfully, only works if you have straight forward correction. If you have astigmatism in your eye, like a lot of people wearing cylindrical corrected glasses, you find out the stars still become stripes, when observing without glasses.

 

I don’t wear glasses, but a lot of observers who do, keep them on for this reason and fancy an eyepiece which will let them.

 

Robert.

 

PS. Sometimes astigmatism in your eye gets worse when you get older. Once heard of a guy selling his Apo cheap because he found it not to be astigmatism-free anymore. A few weeks later the optician told him he needs cylindrical lenses in his new glasses.


Edited by rweust, 21 May 2017 - 11:50 AM.

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#58 Sarkikos

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 11:39 AM

I need to replace my glasses, which are 2-1/2 years old.  I have astigmatism, myopia and presbyopia.  The myopia has improved, the presbyopia and astigmatism have gotten worse.  I really should start replacing my glasses every year.  Now I see obvious astigmatism with or without my glasses when viewing at low-power, wide exit pupils.  The angle of astigmatism has also changed.  

 

I can verify the astigmatism is from my eyes - not the eyepiece or telescope - by shifting the position of my eye around the eyepiece.  I can literally see the angle of astigmatism change as I "walk" around the eyepiece.  Every observer should learn to do this before blaming their optical equipment for the astigmatism they see when viewing through a telescope.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 21 May 2017 - 11:39 AM.


#59 starbase25

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 12:14 PM

@starbase25

 

Observing without glasses, if you normally wear them, and correcting the dioptric with your focus, regretfully, only works if you have straight forward correction. If you have astigmatism in your eye, like a lot of people wearing cylindrical corrected glasses, you find out the stars still become stripes, when observing without glasses.

 

I don’t wear glasses, but a lot of observers who do, keep them on for this reason and fancy an eyepiece which will let them.

 

Robert.

 

PS. Sometimes astigmatism in your eye gets worse when you get older. Once heard of a guy selling his Apo cheap because he found it not to be astigmatism-free anymore. A few weeks later the optician told him he needs cylindrical lenses in his new glasses.

I'm quite aware of this.

 

However, the Meade 5000's are better WITH GLASSES if they have the COVERS REMOVED and LEFT BARE. I've tried it myself. 

 

I just went down the stairs in my house, put the 28mm ES 68 in the focuser, aimed it at a brightly lit wall, put a pair of glasses on, rolled up the eyecup and tried to look into the eyepiece. I *can* see the field stop, but now the glasses are touching the rubber eyecup. I rolled the eyecup down and the view is perfect that way.

 

So, I guess the 28mm does work with the rubber eyecup rolled up and when using glasses, but this is with the 28mm ES 68. The one in your pic looks much higher.


Edited by starbase25, 21 May 2017 - 12:20 PM.


#60 rweust

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 12:21 PM

.... Every observer should learn to do this before blaming their optical equipment for the astigmatism they see when viewing through a telescope.

 

Mike

You're correct, of course, Mike.

 

But the guy was a great sport informing us about this. It's an easily made misjudgement of your telescope, especially when you were always used to correct the dioptric of your eye with the focus of your instrument. By telling us, he prevented others from making the same mistake (which might have included myself in time).

 

Robert.



#61 rweust

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 12:39 PM

So, I guess the 28mm does work with the rubber eyecup rolled up and when using glasses, but this is with the 28mm ES 68. The one in your pic looks much higher.

 

 

I don't fully understand your question, starbase25.

 

I made the eye guards detachable. I can unscrew them from the eyepiece, leaving a low filt ring on top of the eyepiece. This is what my son places his glasses on. He has a perfect view of the fieldstop edge (sharp and without any vignetting inside the widefield from coming to close).
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IMG_20170518_195337064_HDR_zps9pdstcl8.p

As you can see there is a fine thread in the plate on top of the eyepiece.
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When I myself (not wearing glasses) place my eye so close to the eyepiece lens (so without the eye guard), I see to much free space around the fieldstop edge. With the 40 mm it becomes all blurry and vignetting inside this way, but on the 28 mm I also notice being to close. The field stop edge is becoming a little less sharp and on a white plane you will also notice some vignetting starting.

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IMG_20170521_194342824_zpsydde5u9m.png

 

So on both eyepieces I simply screw the eye guard on, providing me the correct ER for the full widefield view without glasses.

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IMG_20170518_195245837_HDR_zpstult29la.p

 

Robert.


Edited by rweust, 21 May 2017 - 12:49 PM.


#62 starbase25

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 01:05 PM

I don't fully understand your question, starbase25.

I made the eye guards detachable. I can unscrew them from the eyepiece, leaving a low filt ring on top of the eyepiece. This is what my son places his glasses on. He has a perfect view of the fieldstop edge (sharp and without any vignetting inside the widefield from coming to close).

 

Nothing hard to understand.

 

With the bulbous top removed from the 5000 SWA's and left bare, it is easier to use than having to take off / put on the rubber eyecup.  I've used them this way with the 28mm and a 34mm. The 40 has a lot of eye relief, so an eyecup on the 40mm is needed.

 

Nice work you've done. I am not knocking it .

 

Without eyecups on the Meade 5000's, I find with glasses it is easy to hold the view, even without glasses it is IMO, except for the 40mm.

 

Depends on how good you are at holding the exit pupil I guess. shrug.gif


Edited by starbase25, 21 May 2017 - 01:10 PM.


#63 rweust

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:26 PM

They are ready, by the way.


The 16 mm decloaked Meade 5000 SWA eyepiece has not enough ER to work with a full eye guard and a glued on plate with fine thread. This way you wouldn’t be able to see the whole widefield. But you can cut down the rubber eye guard and glue it on a bushing that comes around the eyepiece. This way the normal eye will get close enough to view the full widefield comfortably supported and shielded bij the eye guard.

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oogrubber%20ringen%203-Model_zpshvbs9cds

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IMG_20170523_193101797_zpsje3qe4tp.png

 

This is how the 16 mm, 28 mm and 40 mm decloaked eyepieces look for people, including myself, who like to use them with eye guards on the right ER distance.

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IMG_20170523_215431949_zpsveu08z3g.png

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IMG_20170523_215449493_HDR_zpsta4vjanh.p

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IMG_20170523_215441153_zpsnuabycym.png

 

And this is how they look for people who like to get closer to the eye lens or need to beacuase of glasses, like my son.

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IMG_20170523_215529289_zps3ncaivnh.png

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IMG_20170523_215609357_zps61kpwaej.png

 

The eye guards come easily off with 1,5 twist. On the small Meade eyepiece I made a bayonet lock using the existing screw.

 

Robert.



#64 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 08:55 PM

 

 

I leave the pics in quotes there on purpose to show what I am referring to. grin.gif  PS: I wasn't implying that YOU are a beginner, which I can tell you had thought by your reply.

 

 

It is cumbersome.  With all the repeated photos, it's easy to miss the few lines of new text at the bottom.  And with all the photos repeated, it's work to figure out which one is being referenced. Most readers probably don't bother.

 

If I think I need to refer to a particular photo, I provide a link. 

 

I have both the 16 mm and the 24 mm Series 5000 SWA's. Both are decloaked. Good eyepieces..

 

Jon


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