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Goto Kogaku Mod 204

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#1 Stew44

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 03:03 PM

Hello to all, 

 

After solving the identity of that zoom eyepiece I wanted to introduce myself and share about things Goto and others and show couple pictures of my 1957 Model 105 100m f/15 refractor.  I have been observing since '96.  Mostly focused on modern Maks and all years Questar and Quantum.  Also have owned many modern APOs.  Now working on using my vintage scopes more frequently.   This Mod 105 I got about nine years ago along with a Nihon Seiko (parent of Unitron) 50mm Satellite scope.  According to the second owner (I am the third), they came over from Japan together with a returning US serviceman, so these were not imported per se.  The scope came with the obligatory Huygens in 6, 12.5, 18, 25mm and the T30-AH40mm dual purpose eyepieces.  It also came with a full set of Goto orthos - 4, 6, 9, 12.5, 18 and 25mm.  Then there is a tubular image erector and the projection device.  Also a spectrometer attachment for the eyepieces with three lenses and a hand spectroscope, those marked Goto in cute little green and red octagonal boxes.   A lot of other little doo-dads like Goto labelled silica packets, and some hand written notes in Japanese.  The lens has an amazing star test and the motor works fine at 110VAC.  I was fortunate to own a 4" Unitron with weight driven clock drive also from 1957 so fun to compare.  The Goto has better optics so the Unitron is in someone else's collection now.  I also have a 60mm f/20 Goto with possibly the best star test of any of my vintage scopes (as may be expected from the f/20). Still have a number of Unitrons including a very nice 75mm EQ and assorted more common ~60 and ~75mm Japanese box refractors.  Have both 3" and 4" Edmund refractors and original mounts that establish the value line for my larger vintage scopes, though even those provide wonderful images with even Edscorp eyepieces.  Certainly vintage, I am fortunate to own the full line (70, 85, 100, all f/12) of Pentax's early ED refractors late 70's-80's, the 100 on pier.   As I work through some of these I expect I will have some questions, and looking at some of your scope ownership lists, I am sure I will get some great information in response to those.

 

Thanks for comments.  Very impressed with all you all know and expect to learn a lot more about many of my vintage telescopes.

 

Stew

Attached Thumbnails

  • Mod 105.jpg
  • Mod 105 close.jpg

Edited by Stew44, 22 March 2017 - 03:05 PM.

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#2 rcwolpert

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 03:10 PM

Wow! Stew, what a wonderful collection of classic telescopes you have!!!  Welcome to the forum.  Don't be surprised if all of us want to see more pictures of your scopes!

 

- Bob


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#3 deepwoods1

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 04:15 PM

Sweeeeeeeeetttt. More pics please.



#4 CharlieB

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 04:34 PM

Stunning scope!  More photos of all of your scopes, please. 

 

Charlie



#5 photoracer18

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 04:40 PM

Hello to all, 

 

After solving the identity of that zoom eyepiece I wanted to introduce myself and share about things Goto and others and show couple pictures of my 1957 Model 105 100m f/15 refractor.  I have been observing since '96.  Mostly focused on modern Maks and all years Questar and Quantum.  Also have owned many modern APOs.  Now working on using my vintage scopes more frequently.   This Mod 105 I got about nine years ago along with a Nihon Seiko (parent of Unitron) 50mm Satellite scope.  According to the second owner (I am the third), they came over from Japan together with a returning US serviceman, so these were not imported per se.  The scope came with the obligatory Huygens in 6, 12.5, 18, 25mm and the T30-AH40mm dual purpose eyepieces.  It also came with a full set of Goto orthos - 4, 6, 9, 12.5, 18 and 25mm.  Then there is a tubular image erector and the projection device.  Also a spectrometer attachment for the eyepieces with three lenses and a hand spectroscope, those marked Goto in cute little green and red octagonal boxes.   A lot of other little doo-dads like Goto labelled silica packets, and some hand written notes in Japanese.  The lens has an amazing star test and the motor works fine at 110VAC.  I was fortunate to own a 4" Unitron with weight driven clock drive also from 1957 so fun to compare.  The Goto has better optics so the Unitron is in someone else's collection now.  I also have a 60mm f/20 Goto with possibly the best star test of any of my vintage scopes (as may be expected from the f/20). Still have a number of Unitrons including a very nice 75mm EQ and assorted more common ~60 and ~75mm Japanese box refractors.  Have both 3" and 4" Edmund refractors and original mounts that establish the value line for my larger vintage scopes, though even those provide wonderful images with even Edscorp eyepieces.  Certainly vintage, I am fortunate to own the full line (70, 85, 100, all f/12) of Pentax's early ED refractors late 70's-80's, the 100 on pier.   As I work through some of these I expect I will have some questions, and looking at some of your scope ownership lists, I am sure I will get some great information in response to those.

 

Thanks for comments.  Very impressed with all you all know and expect to learn a lot more about many of my vintage telescopes.

 

Stew

I had a Pentax 85 in the 80's. It was F/12 and not an APO. In fact Pentax USA in Denver tried to convince me to let them re-engineer the tube to accept an 85 ED objective they had in inventory as it had a shorter F-ratio than the F12 in my scope. Used to have a 6" F15 scope built by D&G with Jaegers optics and a Unitron focuser. Right now I have a Carton 100mm F13 set of optics in a custom tube waiting for a focuser. Did have a Unitron 60mm EQ for awhile, plus several Towa refractors from F11 to F15. My list of APOs and EDs is pretty long also.



#6 Bomber Bob

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 05:10 PM

Welcome to The Classics!

 

I also have a 60mm f/20 Goto with possibly the best star test of any of my vintage scopes (as may be expected from the f/20).

 

My Goto-Hy-Score 452 is the only 60mm-class refractor that stands up against a Zeiss Telementor for fine planetary detail.  Your Model 105 is amazing!  Yes, more pictures please.



#7 Stew44

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:14 PM

I have a correction to make to model number.  This Goto is a Model 204.  The ad I referenced for the post shows Model 105 for the 4" EQ with motor and tripod.  However in looking at my Goto literature for the scope in more detail I have the image of the inspection tag attached here.  It is a model 204 with delivery date of June 10th 1957.  Sorry about that.  If Cloudy nights has a place to put image files related to drawings or brochures I have quite a few old Goto brochures and instruction-like blueprints.  Happy to scan and put out there.

 

Inspection Card Goto 4.jpg


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#8 Stew44

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:44 PM

I wanted to reply to photoracer18 who brings up a very interesting tidbit.  Concerning my reference to my 'early ED' Pentax refractors.  Attached is a portion of a German Pentax brochure (undated) that shows that Pentax made both Achromat and ED 100s and 85s in the same tube and hardware.  The 70 was dropped at this time and replaced with a new line of ED scopes were also labeled HF in 75mm and simply ED in 65mm.   There are no marking on my 100 that say achromat or ED.  That said, I own or have owned eleven of Roland Christen's telescopes either Star, Starfire, EDT or EDF and a Brandon.  I have owned one Super APO (four color correction), and a couple of Tak flourite doublets and an optically perfect (.99 strehl) TMB 152.  The color correction in the 100 Pentax is phenomenal and in my opinion is one of the ED lenses.  Wish I had more information on this particular scope, which was made in '84.  The accessories on this German brochure page match my accessories.  I was a dealer for Pentax in the late 90's.  I do not believe the company was really pushing any of it's astronomy optics at that time because they didn't have local repair and maintenance for telescopes; and we all were lucky they did stock and distribute the wonderful SMC Orthos.  Sound like in the mid 80's they were trying to make inroads into the market and didn't do so well.

 

So I also looked a little further at the 85 (again haven't dabbled with these for quite awhile).  I think it was made in '76 from serial and do not believe it an ED lens.  Same with the 70.  In any event when all three are lined up with matching green patina mounts scaled large to small and those one piece extruded aluminum legs, it really is a neat sight.  Will try to get a picture out there one of these days.

 

I told you all I'd learn a bit from being out here.  As you can imagine there is a story to every scope (don't ever get me started in individual Questars).  And a lot of detective work to sort things through. 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Pentax 100 and 85 ED.jpg

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#9 terraclarke

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:47 PM

Hi Stew. Welcome to the Forum. Sounds like you have a truly wonderful collection. We will enjoy seeing pictures. I know I will for sure. Case in point: That is an amazing specimen there (the Goto 105); those 4" Gotos are very rare! I used to have two of them, a 60mm and a 76mm (Goto Hy-Score 451 and 454).



#10 fsphotography

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:38 AM

Hi all, interesting thread.

I recently acquired a ''GOTO'' 60mm f15 scope in a wood case with most of its original accessories. And oak tripod.

There is a label inside that says ''Comet No3'' Astronomical telescope. Another label, ''GOTO'' optical manufacturing co. October.18.1954.Plus an export sticker.

The interesting thing is that it comes with an extension tube fitted with an f20 60mm lens.You simply screw off the f15 lens cell and screw on the f20 extension in its place,two scopes for the price of one.

As yet i haven't had a chance to try the f20, but i did spend some time with the f15 on Sirius and Jupiter. I have to admit i was a little more than skeptical of the ''GOTO'' reputation and was not at all prepared for what greeted my eye.

I'm with Bomber Bob,i own and use a 50mm Zeiss  Telementor,  50mm Asahi Pentax  f12,  60mm Yamamoto (Yoshco), and Takahashi TSA102 among other's, so have a pretty fair idea of what good optics look like. Carl Zeiss move over.

I'm still not quite believing what i saw and need to have another look,maybe  i was ''seeing things'', but then again my astronomy mate is still looking for his socks so he must have seen what i saw. Can't wait to try the f20.

Has anyone any further knowledge of this scope, i'd love to learn more about it

Frank.   (Australia) 


Edited by fsphotography, 23 March 2017 - 02:40 AM.

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#11 Stew44

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 06:57 AM

fsphotography,  any chance you could post a picture of the main optical tube and the extension with the f/20 cell set next to it?  Thanks



#12 Stew44

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 07:11 AM

Back to model number of the 4", I guess the imported Laszlo Hy-Score version of this scope is model number 455 based on a 1957 brochure copy I have located.  Interesting that the offered extra accessory in that brochure is the 4mm ortho 455-4 bringing the max magnification of the scope to 375X or almost 100X per inch. 


Edited by Stew44, 23 March 2017 - 07:35 AM.


#13 walter a

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 07:50 AM

axe.gif Wow indeed! You have come to this forum loaded for bear. If the rest of your scopes look as nice as your Goto I might have to plop my meager scopes in a pile and start making kindling. Yes thats green you hear, but that happens when ever i visit the classics forum.


Edited by walter a, 23 March 2017 - 10:59 AM.


#14 walter a

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 07:58 AM

After the best view i ever had I only had to look for one sock." Looking for his socks" LOL



#15 Stew44

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 08:41 AM

Well, thanks Walter.  This is the high end of my Classic/vintage collection.  I think it's a pretty high bar to compare against.  I will come down from the clouds soon enough. smile.gif


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#16 tim53

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 10:32 AM

My goodness!  That's a stunning telescope!

 

I have a Goto 4" f/15, but all that's original is the lens and cell, and the focuser.  The rest was cobbled together from odd parts by the previous owners (El Camino College).  I bought it with a collection of tube assemblies at auction, so no inspection before I paid.  I made temporary rings to put it on an old Optical Craftsmen 1" shaft mount (Pacific Instruments) and an aluminum pier with Meade legs.  It's currently quite ugly, but delivers stunning planetary detail.  I would love to find or replicate the original Goto outer cell and dewshield someday, as I think this one is going to be a keeper.

 

-Tim.

post-6788-0-42231000-1446845555.jpeg


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#17 Stew44

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 01:27 PM

Thank you all for your comments on the Goto 4".  I try to look at the attributes of these 'Vintage' or 'Classic' telescopes on the merits for each scope individually.  Each, beyond what is normally a basic Fraunhofer doublet in a tube with some kind of focal length modifier to position an eyepiece to capture the image for our eyes with the tube stabilized in space by the mount, is a system developed by a commercial entity to sell for a profit.  When you think about it, all the add-ons are there simply for convenience.    When I was a Questar collector I became very familiar with Larry Braymer's background, and what all he went through when developing the Questar.  Larry was a teen when he started messing with telescopes and astronomy.  He was an innovator and an inventor.  When he built the initial Questar prototypes he tried to remove all the inconveniences of the long focus refractors.    One of his first efforts as a young man was to take a large flat mirror and place it in a large wheel rim on a pivoting cell.  He rigged some wire controls and fed a long Fraunhofer refractor, pointed down at the mirror, through the wall of his bedroom.  He sat in a chair in his room and looked down through the fixed telescope's eyepiece and moved the mirror with the cables to change the part of the sky he was wanting to observe.  Not portable, but stable, convenient for at least a portion of the sky, and he wasn't outside in the cold. 

 

I wanted to continue this post with the brief addition of the 4" Edmund Scientific refractor on it's original mount.  I know a few of you have one of these, so you will get what I am saying.

P3230239.JPG

 

Here are the Goto and the Edscorp set up together.  The large appearance of the Goto isn't so large at his point, but differences are huge and not so different at all,

 

The mounts go from fixed azimuth yoke (ES) to rotating azimuth (GK) (unless you're using the motor drive on the Goto and then they're the same.) 

 

P3230242-rot.JPG

P3230243.JPG

 

While obviously a lot more featured, note that both have setting circles.  Note the heavy build quality of the ES mount, a little more rustic than the Goto, but nicely finished.  Look at the beautiful and substantial wood used for the legs.

 

P3230244rot.JPG

P3230245rot.JPG

 

The focusers are really quite different, but they hold an eyepiece and they are very smooth to relatively smooth.

Attached Thumbnails

  • P3230246.JPG

Edited by Stew44, 23 March 2017 - 01:31 PM.

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#18 Stew44

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 01:48 PM

Continuing...

 

P3230249.JPG

 

Big difference in the lens cells, but really the Goto's is to improve the accuracy and stability of alignment.  If the ES is handled carefully and gently and built well aligned, it will likely stay that way.  Lot of flash induced dust effect and some paint flaked off the baffling in the Goto, but really both OTAs are well baffled.  The ES is quite clean.

 

P3230250.JPG

P3230252.JPG

 

To finish, I would say there are a lot of reasons that this ES refractor makes a nice addition to the scopes that I will get a lot more use out of going forward.  It's kind of like a Dob.  You have find the right knob tension to make it respond to a push and stay.  Tube balance is another thing that has to be dealt with externally with attached weighting for that to work.  But it is a decent 4" lens and the ES accessories - eyepieces, Barlows, diagonals and image erectors are all 1.25" and very well made.  The very solid mount and legs cause it to settle quite quickly.  Lots of value in this ES scope for the time.  It's detractors do not keep me from wanting to use it.  In fact it's kind of fun.

 

Stew


Edited by Stew44, 23 March 2017 - 01:56 PM.

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#19 diglit

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 02:50 PM

wonderful!!!!!

I have a Goto 80/1200 but the 100/1500 is really a stunning scope!

 

Paolo



#20 Bomber Bob

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 04:12 PM

Back to model number of the 4", I guess the imported Laszlo Hy-Score version of this scope is model number 455 based on a 1957 brochure copy I have located.  Interesting that the offered extra accessory in that brochure is the 4mm ortho 455-4 bringing the max magnification of the scope to 375X or almost 100X per inch. 

IME, Goto refractors do very well at 100x per inch.

 

Your amazing Goto 204 is Registered.  Was there a Serial Number on the scope or its documentation?


Edited by Bomber Bob, 27 March 2017 - 04:20 PM.


#21 Stew44

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 10:30 PM

I checked all the documentation that came with the scope and removed the lens cell to see if anything was engraved.  Nothing on the scope anywhere.  As you can see on the inspection tag there is a line for serial number but is is blank.  I'll check the OTA case again, but I do not believe there are any labels or marking inside or outside that have a unique number.  Only the typical Goto label centered on the front of the lid.  Who would the scope be registered to?



#22 dyslexic nam

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 07:23 AM

I am jealous of your Pentax scopes.  I have always had a thing for vintage Pentax gear, but at this point only have a few offerings:

- 2 of the J80s

- a J60c

- a few of the vintage ep's (kellners/orthos) that came with scopes like your ED's

 

The idea of owning the full set of ED scopes is making me light-headed... 



#23 Stew44

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 07:23 PM

Tim53 requested some images of the cell of this 4".  During that little photo session I looked at the 80mm (203) as well.  Both of these scopes are f/15, compared to the 106 which is a 75mm, f/17.3, 1300mm.  What I saw in the 80mm and the 100mm reopens the door as to the optical design Goto employed in its telescopes.  We had figured out the design of the 106 in the Goto Optical Design thread.  Not a typical Fraunhoffer.  Those were hard contact lenses with no spacers.  These f/15 Gotos have spacers.  That makes me think they might be Fraunhoffers.  Have to check the 105 and see if there are spacers.  In any event the 100mm cell is a bit unique.  The lens is incorporated in a brass cell that screws into a threaded cell holder that contains the collimation screws.  That housing is attached to the lens holder that is attached to the tube and has a large surface area ring for the friction fit dew shield.  Pictures follow.  

 

P7180488.JPG

P7180490.JPG

P7180489.JPG

P7180492.JPG

P7180493.JPG

P7180495.JPG

 


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#24 Stew44

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 07:25 PM

He is the lens retaining ring at the back of the cell.

 

P7180498.JPG


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#25 Stew44

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 07:37 PM

Tim, I take it you have the lens holding part of the cell in the last pictures above and need to build the collimating cell holder and the part of the cell that attaches to the tube and holds the dew shield.  Let me know if you need anything more picture-wise.


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