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Papilio users...6.5, 8.5 or both?

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138 replies to this topic

#126 Cestus

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 01:57 PM

The belt doesnt protect the Papillio for rain very good btw. When water(vapor) gets in the Papillio, it takes ages to dry up... 

 

When Pentax considering some updates, waterproofing should be the first thing on their list....Now the Papillio is just a (very nice!!) dryweather instrument imo.. 

I never take it out in the rain precisely became of that. I live in a dry area so it isn't too much of an issue most of the year.



#127 Rich V.

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Posted 21 December 2020 - 03:31 PM

A friend left his Papilios out on an outside deck table and overnight there was a rain shower.  Moisture had condensed inside the binos but leaving them out in the warm sun the next day dried them out fully and there didn't appear to be any signs of damage.  fingerscrossed.gif

 

Rich


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#128 DavidSt

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Posted 24 December 2020 - 12:11 PM

I have the 6.5x. I disliked the exceedingly small 2.5mm exit pupil of the 8.5x. The 3.2mm exit pupil of the 6.5x, while smallish, worked for us much better. These binoculars are an absolute joy to have around the house looking at hummingbirds that join me for breakfast, butterflies in the marigolds, or wrens at the birdhouse. At my age, it’s also getting harder to bend over to look at things on the ground during a walk. I don’t have to with these. Actually my wife uses these more. I have a bad left eye so I use my Vixen 6x21 HR ED monocular. Except for lack of stereo vision, it does pretty much the same thing by focusing down to 2 feet. It only weighs 5 ounces and fits in my pant pockets even better than the Papilio’s which fit well. I have much better binoculars for astronomy and dedicated bird watching but I think these binoculars are the most versatile binoculars one can buy.
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#129 Alex_V

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Posted 19 May 2021 - 11:04 AM

Just heads up for Canadians. Still in stock on Amazon Prime for $109 CAD plus tax.

https://www.amazon.c...aps,316&sr=8-73

 

I think it's a very good deal and right in time for bugs watching.



#130 JimV

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Posted 19 May 2021 - 07:57 PM

I have both 6.5 and 8.5.

6.5 is a bit brighter and better for general purpose use.

8.5 is better for sitting and watching bugs up close.  They see more magnified detail.


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#131 Echolight

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Posted 20 May 2021 - 02:58 PM

Bugwatching.... thinking1.gif  Is there a special forum for that?


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#132 Rich V.

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Posted 20 May 2021 - 03:24 PM

Perhaps the Cloudy Days & Microscopes forum might be helpful.

 

https://www.cloudyni...ys-microscopes/

 

Just the same, I see no problem discussing Papilios and the kinds of targets they work great for right here in Binoculars.  They are fantastic for bug observations, for sure.

 

Rich



#133 Echolight

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Posted 20 May 2021 - 03:28 PM

Perhaps the Cloudy Days & Microscopes forum might be helpful.

 

https://www.cloudyni...ys-microscopes/

 

Just the same, I see no problem discussing Papilios and the kinds of targets they work great for right here in Binoculars.  They are fantastic for bug observations, for sure.

 

Rich

No problem. I just figured with the growing popularity that there may be a future "bugforum.com".

 

I like dragonflies. But they're hard to get close enough to for there to be a large advantage with the Papilio.

 

lLately, I've been trying to keep a bat in the eyepieces fir more than a second.


Edited by Echolight, 20 May 2021 - 03:30 PM.


#134 marh

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 12:50 PM

Before getting my Papilio II 6.5x21 six months ago I ran into some user reviews and varied forum posts where the occasional (and quite infrequent to be honest) comment was made concerning the inability of these binos to focus on distant objects. Here are my views on this.

 

TLDR: Papilio has excellent distant viewing, only limited by the physics of small diameter objective lenses. Comparing to 25 mm or larger lenses is a meaningless exercise as Dawes' limit comes into effect. But if you're looking for that WOW! factor every time you discover the 'macro' world and want to see how others experience it too in 3D full stereo vision with excellent color fidelity, bokeh, contrast and detailed resolution this is the kit to do the trick. And it also has the best resolution for distance viewing allowed by physics (once again and for a final time, with excellent color fidelity, contrast and all the details possible for 21 mm diameter lenses).

 

For more detail, here is the long version.

 

What I've noticed is that the optics of the Papilio II 6.5x21 are great even for distance viewing, and that one has to take into account air turbulence.
For example, now that summer is heating up the ground and buildings, I've seen image degradation just due to looking at something close by over a small patch of dried wheat ready to harvest!!
I suspect that the optics are not - as some suggest - only optimized for close up viewing. This statement doesn't make any sense as far as I've been able to investigate.
For example I use a lot of prime lenses for photography and macro photography and to the best of my knowledge there are no design parameters in play for lens curvatures that depend on distance - in fact, I typically use the same lens for 'infinity' and distances of less than 5 cm for macro work, with no resolution loss (easily verified by MFT plots by the way).
So if we take into account the minimum focus distance of 50 cm for the Papilio I have not found any technical resources that lend support to the idea that the left and right eye optic path in these binos are using lens designs that would compromise their resolution as a function of focus distance.
And then there are things like lichens and mosses and fungi that look so much better through binos at minimum distance. These views are like those shots on nature shows where the camera captures a butterfly on a flower with that beautiful background bokeh and you think 'you never get views like that in real life'. But through these binos you do get these views with the incredible bokeh that only expensive photographic lenses produce - with the advantage of using both eyes!
Another fact is that the resolution of a 21 mm diameter objective lens is less than that of a larger lens - this is well-known to astronomers and explains why larger telescopes are used to get better details in images.
Comparing a 21 mm to even a 30 mm objective lens is not a valid comparison - just the physics will limit the resolution of the smaller sized bino.
Summary: in the class of 21 mm diameter objective lens binos, the Papilio II is most likely the most versatile and optically top-end performer available, I would go so far to say that it is technically superior to most roof prism designs in that its average transmission value is 90% over the visible spectrum due to the fully multi-coated lens and fully multi-coated Bak-4 porro prisms (and let's not forget the tortured optical path and phase misalignments of roof prisms, a disability given by physics that is not applicable to the porro prism design). And the 50 cm close focus puts it in a league where it is the champion bar none. (Just try buying that transmission value in a roof prism bino with comparable contrast, color fidelity and detail resolution! You can, but add the 50 cm close focus distance and suddenly the supply is down to zero, no matter the budget available.)


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#135 Rich V.

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Posted 19 July 2021 - 01:17 PM

Nice report, marh, welcome to the Binoculars forum.  I can certainly agree with you that the Papilios are a very versatile bino and a best buy, IMO.  At only 6.5x, resolution isn't a critical matter anyhow, whether 21mm, 30mm or whatever.  For daytime use, its 3mm exit pupil is all most anyone would need.

 

As is usual by now, being a big proponent of them, I highly recommend Papilios for anybody who is a nature lover and wants a closer view of things very near as well as at a distance.  laugh.gif   The price is right, too.

 

Rich



#136 marh

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Posted 20 July 2021 - 09:39 AM

Nice report, marh, welcome to the Binoculars forum.  I can certainly agree with you that the Papilios are a very versatile bino and a best buy, IMO.  At only 6.5x, resolution isn't a critical matter anyhow, whether 21mm, 30mm or whatever.  For daytime use, its 3mm exit pupil is all most anyone would need.

 

As is usual by now, being a big proponent of them, I highly recommend Papilios for anybody who is a nature lover and wants a closer view of things very near as well as at a distance.  laugh.gif   The price is right, too.

 

Rich

Thanks Rich. Will admit I posted being a bit piqued by a few (and maybe 2 would be the most exact count) reviewers who appeared to me to deliberately and maliciously disparage the optical quality of the Papilio for viewing distant objects.

 

And hats off to you for correctly identifying that at 6.5x my eyes are the limiting factor for detail resolution and not the bino's objective diameter of 21mm.

 

I haven't tried the 8.5x Papilio but I suspect that for my eyes the image would be too dim in some of the lighting conditions for nature viewing that I come across, like shaded forest floors and moss, lichens etc on northern exposures out of direct sunlight with the low in the sky dimmer winter sun.

 

Though one thing I regret not mentioning is the quality of the mechanical construction, particularly the precision of the focus mechanism and right eye diopter adjustment.

 

I would be very interested if you had any info on the design, implementation and materials used in manufacturing the focus movement with that close focus of only 50cm.

 

In any case, speaking for myself I appreciate precision instruments and I'm still amazed with both the image quality and the precision of the focus mechanism -  a joy to behold and hold!

 

So now I'll close with a parallel conclusion to yours - if I could recommend or have only one pair of binos, the Papilio II 6.5x21 would be it. (And now the little mischievous streak in me wants to conclude that too many roof prism seekers of 'alpha' binos with low dispersion glass, phase correction and what not, have less sense than cents!!)


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#137 Rich V.

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Posted 20 July 2021 - 10:01 AM

 

Though one thing I regret not mentioning is the quality of the mechanical construction, particularly the precision of the focus mechanism and right eye diopter adjustment.

 

I would be very interested if you had any info on the design, implementation and materials used in manufacturing the focus movement with that close focus of only 50cm.

 

I agree the build quality seems very good; particularly for the price level.  They feel good in the hands and focus is precise and smooth.  They are not water resistant, though, as a friend found out when he left his out in the rain.  The condensation inside did dry out fine, however.  

 

The only special design properties that I'm aware of is the long focus travel range that allows the close focus in the first place and of course, the unique converging angle objective lenses that ride in curved tracks so that images can remain merged at the closest distances.  There's still a bit of parallax, as can be expected with two side by side objectives, but the Papilios do the "eye crossing" so our eyes don't have to at such a close distance.  The result is wonderful, IMO.

 

Rich


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#138 Stevenkelby

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Posted 20 July 2021 - 10:17 AM

I just want to add that the papilio are good for astronomy too. Bases on comments here over the years I expected them to be useless for astronomy but far from it. Obviously dimmer than bigger pairs but you can still see enough to stay entertained for a long while. 



#139 Cestus

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Posted 20 July 2021 - 12:48 PM

I've used mine for bird watching in the yard. They do fine. I haven't tried them much for astronomy, but I bet they are better then eyes alone.


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