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Sony IMX294 STARVIS 8MP 4/3 sensor

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#26 XS_Man

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 02:53 PM

Wonder how the anti-flicker feature will affect AP. Perhaps bad for meteors/satellites and good for DSO's?

 

Gale

 

And I wonder if it will affect :

- noise (readout noise, thermal noise) ?

- banding ?

- Amp Glow ?

 

Albéric



#27 ccs_hello

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:18 PM

Wonder how the anti-flicker feature will affect AP. Perhaps bad for meteors/satellites and good for DSO's?

 

Gale

re: anti-flickering

(a) none

(b) no impact

© no difference

 

Bottom-line: no need to turn anti-flickering on



#28 Sigerson

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 11:03 AM

Interest continues in the new Sony IMX294 STARVIS 4/3 size 10.7MP CMOS image sensor.  QHYCCD is requesting, or currently has, samples of the color IMX294 for testing.  I would imagine other astro camera manufacturers will be looking at this sensor.

 

 

 

http://qhyccd.com/bb...hp?topic=5862.0


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#29 Alien Observatory

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 04:57 PM

I noticed in the Sony Link they are showing 50 MP and 100 MP (!) sensors....WOW....grin.gif



#30 XS_Man

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 11:46 AM

Great, new informations from Sony : wink.gif

 

IMX183 (color/monochrome) BSI :
------------------------------------

http://www.sony-semi..._j_cqj_j_e.html

 

Only a big IMX178, no interest. Limited only to super fast astrograph or Hyperstar.

 

IMX 385 (color) FSI :
----------------------

http://www.sony-semi...mx385lqr_e.html

 

To summarize, a bigger IMX 224, more field of view with same very high sensitivity. Good news
for big telescopes !
For sure a great sensor even if 16/9 format is not the best choice.
Question : what about the amp-glow signal level ? confused1.gif

 

And the futur champion of the year (I hope...) : waytogo.gif

 

IMX294 (color) BSI :
---------------------

http://www.sony-semi...mx294cjk_e.html

 

Lot of "good numbers" :
- big pixels : 4.63 microns,
- BSI,
- SNR1s (sensitivity at low illumination) : same as IMX224 (the best sensor actually),
- sensor size 10.7 Mpix : great for deepsky imaging (long or short exposures),
- frame rate is correct for planetary use : 120 fps for 4K output,

 

Albéric


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#31 Sigerson

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 01:01 PM

 

And the futur champion of the year (I hope...) : waytogo.gif

 

IMX294 (color) BSI :
---------------------

http://www.sony-semi...mx294cjk_e.html

 

Lot of "good numbers" :
- big pixels : 4.63 microns,
- BSI,
- SNR1s (sensitivity at low illumination) : same as IMX224 (the best sensor actually),
- sensor size 10.7 Mpix : great for deepsky imaging (long or short exposures),
- frame rate is correct for planetary use : 120 fps for 4K output,

 

Albéric

 

 

Thank you for the information!  I have been waiting for this.

 

The IMX294 does look interesting and I hope the astro camera manufacturers take a close look at it for EAA use.



#32 Relativist

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:13 PM

Between the 385 and 294 I really like the 294 HDR feature. I can see that both are desirable for EAA.



#33 ccs_hello

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:50 PM

Very important to point out IMX294's part number is IMX294CJK.

J is a unusual suffix and can give an important clue.

 

http://www.sony-semi...mg/imx294_1.png

 

As you can see in the above pictures, the Bayer RGGB pattern actually is a 4x4 arrangement.

 

RRGG

RRGG

GGBB

GGBB

 

While two different readout groups can be read separately/independently with different exposure time.

 

RRGG
RRGG
GGBB
GGBB

 

 

BTW, for full resolution without pixel value summing (software binning),

the spatial resolving power will not be that good (has to use 4x4 for de-mosaic algorithm as oppose to the common 2x2 demosaic.)

 

Clear Skies!

 

ccs_hello


Edited by ccs_hello, 02 June 2017 - 10:53 PM.


#34 XS_Man

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 07:35 AM

And now a new great sensor from Gpixel : wink.gif

 

GSENSE 2020 BSI

- 4 Mp 2048x2048
- 6.5 microns pixels,
- QE : 90%

 

http://www.cipeasia....roduct/info/118

 

FSI version :

 

http://www.gpixelinc...hp?s=/b/62.html

 

And now the question : what is the price of this gem ? confused1.gif

 

Albéric



#35 ccs_hello

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 05:22 PM

P.S. it is probably slightly OT talking about mfg's Y's product on mfg X's thread

 

Majority of the image sensors made by Gsense are not available outside of China, other than very low end ones.

Sometimes one or two leaks out of the border.

 

You have to guess on your own over the reasons why...


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#36 XS_Man

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 11:23 AM

Hi guys,smile.gif

 

Sony has announced 2 sensors that are interesting for our astronomy use : IMX420 and

IMX 428 (a slower version). Medium-size 7.1 Mpix sensor with "big" pixels 4.5 microns.

Pregius Global Shutter technology as IMX 174/IMX249 but with a better sensitivity.

 

Links to Sony datas :

 

http://www.sony-semi...20LLJ_Flyer.pdf

http://www.sony-semi...28LLJ_Flyer.pdf

 

As for all Pregius Global Shutter sensors, the 3 important questions are :
- Price ?
- "Amp glow" signal management ?
- Banding ?

 

Albéric



#37 Relativist

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:03 PM

Let's start a new thread👍🏻

#38 Phil Jones

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 07:22 PM

ZWO IMX294 is now available:

https://astronomy-im...94mc-pro-color/



#39 Relativist

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 07:37 PM

Thread for that is here:

https://www.cloudyni...ro-beta-testing

#40 Max2206

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 06:07 PM

Great, new informations from Sony : wink.gif

 

IMX183 (color/monochrome) BSI :
------------------------------------

http://www.sony-semi..._j_cqj_j_e.html

 

Only a big IMX178, no interest. Limited only to super fast astrograph or Hyperstar.

 

IMX 385 (color) FSI :
----------------------

http://www.sony-semi...mx385lqr_e.html

 

To summarize, a bigger IMX 224, more field of view with same very high sensitivity. Good news
for big telescopes !
For sure a great sensor even if 16/9 format is not the best choice.
Question : what about the amp-glow signal level ? confused1.gif

 

And the futur champion of the year (I hope...) : waytogo.gif

 

IMX294 (color) BSI :
---------------------

http://www.sony-semi...mx294cjk_e.html

 

Lot of "good numbers" :
- big pixels : 4.63 microns,
- BSI,
- SNR1s (sensitivity at low illumination) : same as IMX224 (the best sensor actually),
- sensor size 10.7 Mpix : great for deepsky imaging (long or short exposures),
- frame rate is correct for planetary use : 120 fps for 4K output,

 

Albéric

Altair has a AstroCamera with a IMX183

It gives really good images

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=rJ7PQu5W6ao

 

https://www.youtube....Z24ZaRccs&t=68s

 

As told it also works very good with short exposures

 

But ZWO and Risingtech (and clones) do not have this cmos chip in one of their camera's



#41 ccs_hello

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 09:37 PM

Some info on IMX294 https://www.cloudyni...s/#entry8430323



#42 Astrojedi

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 10:48 PM

 

I cannot find any info on 294. What information are you presenting?



#43 ccs_hello

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 11:09 PM

SONY made few 4/3" sensors for the FourThirds camp.

IMX294 is the most logical use case for GH5s.  In another word,

SONY is a for profit, mass-production company and will not just make few hundred or low thousands of a image sensor part for a tiny market beyond main stream. 



#44 Relativist

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:16 AM

Yes I noticed the use in the GH5S as well. The only thing I still haven’t seen is if the binning and hdr modes are available to us for EAA use (see datasheet).

#45 Astrojedi

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 12:20 PM

That GH5s is quite pricey... makes ASI294 look like a bargain.
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#46 Relativist

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 02:23 PM

That GH5s is quite pricey... makes ASI294 look like a bargain.


Yes, I had the same reaction. Typically it’s the other way around. Id get an A7s II over the GH5s at those prices as well. The 294 is a promising sensor for EAA no doubt, I do hope more astro camera manufacturers take it up (like Atik and Starlight Express).

#47 Astrojedi

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 02:48 PM

There is some hope for Atik but Atik moves very slowly. So at least a year away. SX I have no hope. Even if SX starts using newer CMOS sensors will SLL get updated to use them? Right now it is not clear.



#48 Sigerson

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 02:55 PM

Ever since the GH5s came out I have been waiting for confirmation that it uses the IMX294 sensor, and it’s why I haven’t mentioned it here up to this point.  I still have not seen proof.  Can someone provide a source?  I have yet to see any GH5s sensor specifications that coincide exactly with the limited IMX294 specs that I've seen.

 

It makes sense that the ‘over-sized’ 4/3 sensor in the GH5s is the IMX294, or maybe a ‘tweaked’ version specified by Panasonic.  I have yet to see any IMX294 design wins from any industrial or security camera manufacturers – although I gave up looking some time ago.  In other words, other than an obvious interest in the IMX294 by astro camera manufacturers, the only other rumored use I am familiar with has been the GH5s.

 

The GH5s is cool although expensive, but in my opinion, its use as a general photo/video (not purely astro) camera is limited by the removal of IBIS (in body image stabilization).  It is just too high-end video specific for me.  It will be interesting to see what Sony does with the A7sIII.  That thing should have a new Sony sensor and may blow the GH5s away as far as low light sensitivity goes.  I find this somewhat unfortunate because Panasonic makes much more user friendly and feature rich cameras than Sony.

 

Anyway, once again, has anyone proved that the GH5s uses the IMX294?  And has anyone noticed any other design wins (industrial or security) for this sensor – besides the astro camera community?



#49 Ptarmigan

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 05:55 PM

There is some hope for Atik but Atik moves very slowly. So at least a year away. SX I have no hope. Even if SX starts using newer CMOS sensors will SLL get updated to use them? Right now it is not clear.

It would be nice to see other companies use IMX294. I only see ZWO using it at the moment.


Edited by Ptarmigan, 03 March 2018 - 06:13 PM.


#50 Astrojedi

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 06:34 PM

 

There is some hope for Atik but Atik moves very slowly. So at least a year away. SX I have no hope. Even if SX starts using newer CMOS sensors will SLL get updated to use them? Right now it is not clear.

It would be nice to see other companies use IMX294. I only see ZWO using it at the moment.

 

Me too. Unfortunately other vendors are moving very slowly.




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