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3 frames per second with Eclipse Orchestrator

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#51 rainycityastro

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:30 PM

I also got the dreaded Err 70 on my 5d mark II because possibly EO put the camera into a bad state. Removing the battery/restarting the camera did nothing to fix it and the camera appeared to be bricked. 

 

 

Apparently the trick is to turn off the camera: Move it to one of the C1, C2 orC3 settings turn it on and then turn it off. Then restart in the CA setting. This trick clears the camera internal state and allows it to proceed. 

 

http://www.reikanpho...ing-from-Err-70


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#52 dghundt

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 02:09 PM

My 5D4 did some funky stuff after using the Focal program (I see your link/reference).  



#53 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 03:49 PM

While I am waiting for the serial cable to arrive, does the MLU not work unless there is a serial cable and pro version of EO? I noticed that MLU was disabled in the hardware configuration menu.

 

Does the mirror stay up when shooting a fast sequence of commands? Or does the program have to wait for the mirror to drop and then wait another 0.35 secs or more to raise the mirror and take a picture?

 

Also how much time should elapse between raising mirror and starting the shot. The default appears to be 0.35 secs. Is this sufficient to eliminate vibrations? Or better to increase to 1 sec?

 

Unfortunately, you are going to have to test all of this with your own setup because every camera works differently.

 

Jerry



#54 Robin

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 03:05 PM

Hi Jerry,

 

You mentioned mirror lock-up in post #9.  Do you have experience with the live vew support of Eclipse Orchestrator Pro version?

If it really supports permanent live view, wouldn't this circumvent the mirror vibration problem?

So far, I have only tested the free version, which doesn't allow live view for Canon cameras while it is connected to the camera.

 

Clear skies,

 

Robin



#55 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:14 PM

Hi Jerry,

 

You mentioned mirror lock-up in post #9.  Do you have experience with the live vew support of Eclipse Orchestrator Pro version?

If it really supports permanent live view, wouldn't this circumvent the mirror vibration problem?

So far, I have only tested the free version, which doesn't allow live view for Canon cameras while it is connected to the camera.

Hi Robin,

 

To be honest, I'm not really playing with EO any more, I have switched to Solar Eclipse Maestro which is much more powerful than EO, but unfortunately only runs on Macs, and I even bought the pro version of EO.

 

You can use Live View to focus in EO pro, but I can't find any documentation on calling it in a script. I tried LVSTART and LVPSTART and neither work. Unfortunately, support by Moonglow for EO seems to be non-existent.

I do know that MLU only works with the pro version and with a serial cable in EO.

Permanent Live View would, in theory, eliminate blur from mirror slap.

In the real world, it is, unsurprisingly, much more complicated, and it depends on the individual camera.

Some cameras, with Live View active, will flip the mirror up and down and open and close the mechanical shutter for every frame.

Some will lock the mirror up in Live View, leave the shutter open and only use electronic front curtain shutter.

CMOS sensors apparently have to use a mechanical second curtain shutter for readout purposes.

So, I hate to have to say it again, but you are just going to have to test it with your own equipment to see what happens.

People ask "yea, but... will this work?" and then they don't even say what kind of camera they have... it's hard to help them... :-)

Jerry


Edited by Jerry Lodriguss, 25 July 2017 - 04:15 PM.


#56 AsleepAtTheScope

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 05:48 PM

I did some testing now that I'm home and the best my6D can do with just a USB cable is 1 frame per second. Anything shorter and it stops once the buffer fills. The rate is the same whether the camera is connected to a USB hub (USB3.0) or direct to the computer. I'm reading to a Lexar 64GB card, 633x, 95MB/s.

Looks like I'm shopping for a serial cable though I'm running low on ports.

I am starting to do testing w/ EO and a Nikon D5300 and a Canon 450D.

 

My first revelation came when I switched from a Lexar 64GB 95MB/s card to a SanDisk Extreme Pro (claims write speed of 90MB/s). Just holding down the shutter button (on continuous) went from a sustained 1 frame/sec to just below 2 frames/sec. I was also able to lower the EO Pro controlled rate (w/ a shutter cable) from 1.1 sec per frame to .7 sec per frame. Seems that the data card can make a huge difference. I believe the normally quoted speeds for data cards are read speeds while what you really care about is write speed (which is always lower).



#57 Rickycardo

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 09:40 AM

 

I did some testing now that I'm home and the best my6D can do with just a USB cable is 1 frame per second. Anything shorter and it stops once the buffer fills. The rate is the same whether the camera is connected to a USB hub (USB3.0) or direct to the computer. I'm reading to a Lexar 64GB card, 633x, 95MB/s.

Looks like I'm shopping for a serial cable though I'm running low on ports.

I am starting to do testing w/ EO and a Nikon D5300 and a Canon 450D.

 

My first revelation came when I switched from a Lexar 64GB 95MB/s card to a SanDisk Extreme Pro (claims write speed of 90MB/s). Just holding down the shutter button (on continuous) went from a sustained 1 frame/sec to just below 2 frames/sec. I was also able to lower the EO Pro controlled rate (w/ a shutter cable) from 1.1 sec per frame to .7 sec per frame. Seems that the data card can make a huge difference. I believe the normally quoted speeds for data cards are read speeds while what you really care about is write speed (which is always lower).

 

Interesting. My local Costco has a set of 2 Sandisk Extreme Pro 64mb cards for $50. Maybe I'll pick that up and test it. Thanks for the heads up.



#58 zbadger

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Posted 02 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

Can someone please further explain to me what the downside is of being "late" in the log file.  I have a Canon 7d Mark II with a real rapid burst.  I set the sequence between images of 1 second as I really wanted to take advantage of the serial cable.  For my faster images 1/8000. 1/4000. 1/2000.... I am getting a late reading up to .3 and my slower images are at .1.  Does the "late" instance push back the entire imaging sequence cumulatively or does it just eat into the 1 second between images?  If it pushes it back cumulatively, that could be a disaster for later in the sequence as it would push the end of sequence prominences, bailys beads and diamond ring well beyond 3rd contact.

 

On a different note, as Jerry states, test and test again.  It's just frustrating that the EO Manual (if it at all addresses a particular issue) might not give the correct advice.  For example, on mirror lockup, it states to enable it in your camera.  I did that with my Canon 7dMark II.  A 2 hour test rendered a log and image results of it taking one exposure setting (the first one) throughout the entire 2 hours.  This morning I disabled mirror lockup in my camera but kept it on my script in spots and it worked just fine.


Edited by zbadger, 02 August 2017 - 11:16 AM.


#59 HxPI

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:06 PM

I liked using Solar Eclipse Maestro but oaCapture keeps crashing and won't recover. I need both to work for my imaging plans. So I got Eclipse Orchestrator and now trying to setup a script. I agree SEM seems to be a bit better than EO but oh well. Anywho, in SEM you can select the filter type ND4/ND5. In EO there is no mention of what filter value it is using. Does anyone know what filter values the exposures for "filter on" are based on? ND4/ND5??? 

 

Thanks.

 

Ciao,

Mel


Edited by HxPI, 11 August 2017 - 11:08 PM.


#60 HxPI

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:46 PM

OK another question. What's the deal with the "Late by" value? Every one of my shots is late by some value, most are .3 but some 1 or more. A bit confusing!!!! Needless to say this software is not very intuitive so I have to take time to trial and error it to figure it out. Hopefully someone who has already figured this part out can help. What parameters will affect this value and what should the nominal settings be? I have a Nikon D810 with very fast memory cards and it is plenty capable so there shouldn't be any delay. 

 

Thanks.

 

Ciao,

Mel


Edited by HxPI, 12 August 2017 - 12:46 AM.


#61 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:57 AM

I liked using Solar Eclipse Maestro but oaCapture keeps crashing and won't recover. I need both to work for my imaging plans. So I got Eclipse Orchestrator and now trying to setup a script. I agree SEM seems to be a bit better than EO but oh well. Anywho, in SEM you can select the filter type ND4/ND5. In EO there is no mention of what filter value it is using. Does anyone know what filter values the exposures for "filter on" are based on? ND4/ND5??? 

Sorry, I don't know what "oaCapture" is.

 

ND4 and ND5 are Neutral Density filters for the partial phase of the eclipse.

 

I have exposure values on my web page here for ND5:  

 

http://www.astropix.....html#Exposures

 

You can google "Neutral Density Filters" for a more complete explanation.

 

Jerry


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#62 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:07 AM

OK another question. What's the deal with the "Late by" value? Every one of my shots is late by some value, most are .3 but some 1 or more. A bit confusing!!!! Needless to say this software is not very intuitive so I have to take time to trial and error it to figure it out. Hopefully someone who has already figured this part out can help. What parameters will affect this value and what should the nominal settings be? I have a Nikon D810 with very fast memory cards and it is plenty capable so there shouldn't be any delay. 

Yes, it will take time to figure it out by trail and error, and that is what you are going to have to do. Every setup is different in terms of the hardware and the write speeds. You have to test it to see what you can get away with.

 

Just because you have a Nikon D810 doesn't mean there won't be any delay.  Even if you were pushing the button with your finger, there would be the following delays:

 

1. The time between when your conscious mind decides to press the button and the time when the nerve impulses travel down your arm to your finger (they do not travel faster than the speed of light after all), and then when you actually press the button. Have you tested your reaction time lately? (Mine is 0.2 seconds. I'm not bragging because it actually used to be a lot better when I was shooting sports full time). Luckily, automating it takes this part out of the equation.

 

2. The time it takes for the command to go from the computer over the USB cable to the camera. This is the main slowdown.

 

3. The time it takes the camera to execute the command in terms of flipping the mirror up and opening the shutter.

 

4. It takes time for the file to flush and write to the memory card before the next exposure takes place. This is different for every camera and memory card combination, which is why... get ready for it...

 

YOU HAVE TO TEST IT WITH YOUR OWN EQUIPMENT !!!!!!!!!!

 

None of this stuff is instantaneous.

 

Here's what you really have to worry about:

 

1. Is the camera dropping programmed frames?

 

2. Are the shutter speeds and ISO correct?  Too fast and it can take frames, but they are at the wrong exposure or ISO.

 

3. Can you shoot your entire programed sequence for totality in the time between C2 and C3 for your particular observing location.

 

If you are a 0.3 second late, it is hardly going to matter because unless you have a special GPS device hooked up to your computer, the chances are you're not going to know the exact time to that accuracy anyway.  

 

And, it is even more complicated that that...

 

Jerry


Edited by Jerry Lodriguss, 12 August 2017 - 03:11 AM.


#63 HxPI

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:10 AM

 

OK another question. What's the deal with the "Late by" value? Every one of my shots is late by some value, most are .3 but some 1 or more. A bit confusing!!!! Needless to say this software is not very intuitive so I have to take time to trial and error it to figure it out. Hopefully someone who has already figured this part out can help. What parameters will affect this value and what should the nominal settings be? I have a Nikon D810 with very fast memory cards and it is plenty capable so there shouldn't be any delay. 

Yes, it will take time to figure it out by trail and error, and that is what you are going to have to do. Every setup is different in terms of the hardware and the write speeds. You have to test it to see what you can get away with.

 

Just because you have a Nikon D810 doesn't mean there won't be any delay.  Even if you were pushing the button with your finger, there would be the following delays:

 

1. The time between when your conscious mind decides to press the button and the time when the nerve impulses travel down your arm to your finger (they do not travel faster than the speed of light after all), and then when you actually press the button. Have you tested your reaction time lately? (Mine is 0.2 seconds. I'm not bragging because it actually used to be a lot better when I was shooting sports full time). Luckily, automating it takes this part out of the equation.

 

2. The time it takes for the command to go from the computer over the USB cable to the camera. This is the main slowdown.

 

3. The time it takes the camera to execute the command in terms of flipping the mirror up and opening the shutter.

 

4. It takes time for the file to flush and write to the memory card before the next exposure takes place. This is different for every camera and memory card combination, which is why... get ready for it...

 

YOU HAVE TO TEST IT WITH YOUR OWN EQUIPMENT !!!!!!!!!!

 

None of this stuff is instantaneous.

 

Here's what you really have to worry about:

 

1. Is the camera dropping programmed frames?

 

2. Are the shutter speeds and ISO correct?  Too fast and it can take frames, but they are at the wrong exposure or ISO.

 

3. Can you shoot your entire programed sequence for totality in the time between C2 and C3 for your particular observing location.

 

If you are a 0.3 second late, it is hardly going to matter because unless you have a special GPS device hooked up to your computer, the chances are you're not going to know the exact time to that accuracy anyway.  

 

And, it is even more complicated that that...

 

Jerry

 

 

Thanks for the reality check! I was able to set the delay between frames to 1.25 seconds and all images are captured with correct settings. The late by is mostly .3 so that will have to do. Without a GPS device, there's no need sweating it any further. Now to sanity check the settings for each event.

 

Yes this stuff is certainly complicated and there isn't an "easy" button to make it all work. However the challenge is part of the fun of figuring it out, even if it is frustrating! Good luck to all who have endeavored to image this event. Regardless of what happens with the equipment, the most reliable equipment to use is what you were born with. Use that and enjoy the total solar eclipse cool.gif

 

Ciao,

Mel


Edited by HxPI, 12 August 2017 - 10:46 AM.


#64 HxPI

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:10 AM

 

I liked using Solar Eclipse Maestro but oaCapture keeps crashing and won't recover. I need both to work for my imaging plans. So I got Eclipse Orchestrator and now trying to setup a script. I agree SEM seems to be a bit better than EO but oh well. Anywho, in SEM you can select the filter type ND4/ND5. In EO there is no mention of what filter value it is using. Does anyone know what filter values the exposures for "filter on" are based on? ND4/ND5??? 

Sorry, I don't know what "oaCapture" is.

 

ND4 and ND5 are Neutral Density filters for the partial phase of the eclipse.

 

I have exposure values on my web page here for ND5:  

 

http://www.astropix.....html#Exposures

 

You can google "Neutral Density Filters" for a more complete explanation.

 

Jerry

 

Thanks.



#65 Rickycardo

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 12:17 PM

I've had a problem dropping programmed frames but I may have found a work-around. On my 6D running EO Pro it seems I would drop shots immediately following my longest exposures e.g. my Earthshine and deep corona exposures. These are being taken at 6 - 8 seconds each. What would happen is my bracketing exposures after those would be dropped. From about 1/200 down to about 1/50. 3 or 4 shots would be missed.

Since I couldn't find the exact cause what I discovered for a work-around was changing my initial setting in the script wizard. In the preference window I changed my longest exposure from 8 seconds to 10 seconds and unchecked the boxes to allow deviations for aperture and ISO. Then I let the wizard create a script for me.

Once the script was complete I opened the Edit window and scrolled to my 2 longest exposures, the ones giving me problems. The wizard made my deep corona exposure and my Earthshine exposure 10 seconds long. I changed these back to 8 seconds and 6 seconds respectively then saved the script. From my testing 8 seconds seems to work best for my setup to give me what I wanted.

When I ran the script EO kept the same time spacing between shots but with the shortened exposure there was a longer delay following the 2 longest exposures. I ran the script multiple times without dropping any shots.

I don't know all the ins and outs of EO and am not good at directly editing the scripts so this could be handled differently but if anyone is dropping shots this could be a work around to get all of your exposures.


Edited by Rickycardo, 12 August 2017 - 12:20 PM.


#66 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:29 PM

I've had a problem dropping programmed frames but I may have found a work-around. On my 6D running EO Pro it seems I would drop shots immediately following my longest exposures e.g. my Earthshine and deep corona exposures. These are being taken at 6 - 8 seconds each. What would happen is my bracketing exposures after those would be dropped. From about 1/200 down to about 1/50. 3 or 4 shots would be missed.

Since I couldn't find the exact cause what I discovered for a work-around was changing my initial setting in the script wizard. In the preference window I changed my longest exposure from 8 seconds to 10 seconds and unchecked the boxes to allow deviations for aperture and ISO. Then I let the wizard create a script for me.

Once the script was complete I opened the Edit window and scrolled to my 2 longest exposures, the ones giving me problems. The wizard made my deep corona exposure and my Earthshine exposure 10 seconds long. I changed these back to 8 seconds and 6 seconds respectively then saved the script. From my testing 8 seconds seems to work best for my setup to give me what I wanted.

When I ran the script EO kept the same time spacing between shots but with the shortened exposure there was a longer delay following the 2 longest exposures. I ran the script multiple times without dropping any shots.

I don't know all the ins and outs of EO and am not good at directly editing the scripts so this could be handled differently but if anyone is dropping shots this could be a work around to get all of your exposures.

With exposures of 8 and 6 seconds you need to be concerned about how accurately your mount can track due to periodic error, as well as how accurate your polar alignment is.

 

And you also need to worry about the stability of your rig in wind.

 

Jerry



#67 AUricle

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:56 PM

Well today I may have done my final run through. Dragged everything out to the backyard. Set it all up including an eyeball North polar alignment. Attached all the camera,laptop, and power cables. Filters ON scope and finder.

Visually acquired the Sun with a moderately powered eyepiece, and turned on the drive.

Time was actually very close to the start time of the eclipse at my viewing location, close to noon with the Sun high in the sky.

Hardest part for me was focusing for the camera, because the bright sunlight plays hell with my eyes, making it very hard to see a live view on the laptop, even though I built a black box to shield the laptop. Not sure how to alleviate this. Maybe I need an umbrella or something....

So I set the time in EO and ran the entire script, start to finish. Worked flawlessly. 1.5 sec. between shots is my sweet spot. so counting partials, I get close to 200 exposures, Almost 90 through C2-C3 time frame.

Had a few small adjustments to make in Dec. during the partial phases, but my rough alignment must have been pretty good.

I checked all the images afterward, and they looked great. Picked up a small sunspot

that I used to compare sharpness, and I must say, maybe I'm just lucky, but I don't have MLU on my T3 Rebel, and even though my long exposures were variably overexposed, in all but the longest where there was a total white out, I had a very sharp solar disk edge, and still had the tiny sunspot even in highly magnified exposure reviews. That gives me hope for not a lot of mirror slap blurring.

Last of all, I marked 2 spots on the scope. One for visual focus, and one for camera focus points.

Here's the rig, sans filters and Canon T3.

Meade LX-5 field tripod, forks, and drive. Vintage black tube C-90 Mak mounted side by side with a Meade 9x60 RACI on a home made platform mounted to the forks. Nothing fancy.....

Attached File  DSC00388.JPG   235.14KB   1 downloads

The funniest "bad" thing that happened was during set-up. I had sort of pre-pointed the scope to the Sun, but left the lens cap on. It's black plastic and metal. It heated up quickly and I had one HELL of a time trying to get the cap off as it sits down inside the dewshield.

I will NOT make that mistake on the 21st!lol.gif



#68 johnpd

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 03:31 AM

Regarding focusing, it would be helpful to get a tarp, a small blanket, or something similar and drape it over the box and yourself. This will block off enough light to make it easier to view your screen.

 

JohnD


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#69 AUricle

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:07 PM

Regarding focusing, it would be helpful to get a tarp, a small blanket, or something similar and drape it over the box and yourself. This will block off enough light to make it easier to view your screen.

 

JohnD

Think I'm going to try again with an umbrella, John.

Shade seems to help and it's a lot cooler toolol.gif


Edited by AUricle, 13 August 2017 - 12:08 PM.


#70 johnpd

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:17 PM

I was out a couple of days ago testing my new camera (Nikon D7500) which has a wonderful flip up screen for viewing. Using Live View with it was next to impossible. I put a heavy shirt over my head and the camera and found even the light coming from below was distracting. I ended up totally wrapping the shirt around my head and the camera until virtually no light was visible and then the image on the screen was very viewable. Viewing in sunlight is difficult. The more light you can block, the better off you are.

 

JohnD



#71 Tim in GA

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 06:38 AM

I was practicing over the weekend and man, it was not easy. Finding the sun is hard, especially when my camera is nearly straight up and I have to sit down under the tripod to see anything. Once I find the sun, focusing is nearly impossible on the camera's LCD screen. So I use the Canon software to get live view on my laptop and zoom in. But of course before that my laptop gives me issues startup up. Windows occasionally tells me it can't sign into my account. but a reboot usually fixes it. While I am out in the hot sun I am rebooting 3-4 times before it finally lets me in. And then I get out the extension cable for my Shoestring Astronomy shutter cable and discover it's a male-to-male cable, making it impossible to use without a female-to-female adapter (need to email them about that). And I had a USB extension cable which caused all sorts of problems with Canon's remote shooting program and also made all my exposures in EO the same (i.e. it was ignoring all commands to change exposure). So I can't use any extension cables which isn't a huge deal. But I'm a bit disappointed I spent money on those things and they don't work. Anyway, I eventually got some decent shots after 30 minutes of cooking in the sun.


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#72 AUricle

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:29 PM

I was out a couple of days ago testing my new camera (Nikon D7500) which has a wonderful flip up screen for viewing. Using Live View with it was next to impossible. I put a heavy shirt over my head and the camera and found even the light coming from below was distracting. I ended up totally wrapping the shirt around my head and the camera until virtually no light was visible and then the image on the screen was very viewable. Viewing in sunlight is difficult. The more light you can block, the better off you are.

 

JohnD

John,

YES! I found even covering my head difficult because glare and reflection from BELOW the camera were just as problematic. I'm going to tape a black card to the bottom of my camera to try to block out that 'noise'.



#73 AUricle

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 10:32 PM

I was practicing over the weekend and man, it was not easy. Finding the sun is hard, especially when my camera is nearly straight up and I have to sit down under the tripod to see anything. Once I find the sun, focusing is nearly impossible on the camera's LCD screen. So I use the Canon software to get live view on my laptop and zoom in. But of course before that my laptop gives me issues startup up. Windows occasionally tells me it can't sign into my account. but a reboot usually fixes it. While I am out in the hot sun I am rebooting 3-4 times before it finally lets me in. And then I get out the extension cable for my Shoestring Astronomy shutter cable and discover it's a male-to-male cable, making it impossible to use without a female-to-female adapter (need to email them about that). And I had a USB extension cable which caused all sorts of problems with Canon's remote shooting program and also made all my exposures in EO the same (i.e. it was ignoring all commands to change exposure). So I can't use any extension cables which isn't a huge deal. But I'm a bit disappointed I spent money on those things and they don't work. Anyway, I eventually got some decent shots after 30 minutes of cooking in the sun.

No doubt about it, Tim.

Lots of obstacles to overcome. I now know and appreciate the wisdom from experienced SE observers/imagers to practice, practice, practice.........

It's the ONLY way to learn the do's and don'ts.

Good Luck!




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