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24" f/2.75

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#51 ctcables

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 05:36 PM

Ed ( phonehome ) outstanding job, had some questions, sent PM. Would be great to talk with you.


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#52 phonehome

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:25 AM

To continue:

 

One of the first questions asked in this thread was regarding thermal equilibrium & cooling.  The strategy utilized was simple:  1. Use [almost] all aluminum construction [Mike touched on the whys]; 2. Relocate all electronics, batteries, etc. heat sources from the rocker box to the ground board; 3. Use the “sealed” bottom of the aluminum rocker box as a "barrier or diffuser" between ground board and mirror box, 4. Make the mirror box thin resulting in a wide cross-flow air gap of 2.6" between bottom of mirror box and top of rocker box; 5 design a mirror cover which can stay in place and effectively ventilate early as needed and 6. Employ a bit more "elaborate" primary filtering/cooling system than usual.

 

The "dust" part of the locale conditions was addressed starting with a high-capacity permanent Honeywell HEPA filter with about 25 sq. ft. of folded surface area.  It is pre-filtered with 2 layers of standard 3/16" air-conditioner filter foam.  It is approximately 14” O.D., x 3.5” high and has a 9” I.D. which inside contains the fans, isolation mount system and trim weights.

Three radial (not axial) fans are employed of the standard dual-ball bearing design. Why radials? at low power levels they are more capable of handling the static air-flow resistance imposed by the use of a filter versus axials.   These fans are turned 90 degrees to the primary, hand balanced and triple isolated/suppressed from the mirror box in a unique mounting arrangement (see pixs): Each fan is mated to a Delrin “blade” with silicone supports/standoffs. Like the fans, the 3 blades are also turned 90 degrees to the primary. Each blade is partially mounted (overhung) onto a 6” diameter Delrin disk which is in turn mounted to the mirror box back cover with 6 silicone standoffs. A small stainless weight is attached near the free-end of each blade for significant vibration suppression. An acoustic/vibration analyzer w/accelerometer was used during this phase for fan balancing & weight selection. For those interested, at maximum speed the system flow rate measured 1 cubic ft. per second with filters in-place.  As to visual vibration I personally have not witnessed any at the highest power I've used so far (440x) on planets {or anything else} regardless of fan speed.

 

The filters, fans, isolation mounts & the trim weights are located outside of the mirror box in the normally unused space between the trunnions.   Even the trim weights play a role as their mass does double-duty by further suppressing vibration that could be transmitted through the rear mirror box panel.

 

The fans direct filtered air into the mirror box and against a round perforated baffle which spreads out the air flow across the back of the mirror to inhibit "cold spotting" (see pixs).  This baffle is constructed of 6mm expanded PVC.  A small hand-held anemometer was used to gauge & adjust air flow across the back of the mirror stand-in during construction.   This was necessary as fast mirrors obviously have a deep sagitta with significantly less mass in the center versus the edge.   Air continues around the mirror to the front baffle and is directed downward and inward 360 degrees around the face of the mirror by a circular deflector (see pix).  The shape of the circular 3-D deflector was determined through trial-&-error by fabrication of several versions from 19mm expanded PVC sheet stock and refined using smoke tests. Much care was taken not to invoke excessive cooling at the mirror's edge which could lead to over-correction but still provide effective boundary-layer scrubbing. The deflector is attached to the inside of the mirror baffle, has an I.D. of 24.25”, a O.D. of 26.25”, is 0.74” high with the inside face finished in a 0.8” high strip of 0.06” thick Protostar flockboard and the outside shaped in a concave round.

 

As Tom Masterson mentioned early on, air exits the vents at the center of the mirror cover during cool down. Positive pressure at these exhaust vents keep dust from entering the mirror box.  During observing, the boundary scrubbing airflow meets in the middle of the mirror (area of maximum turbulence) which is conveniently in the shadow of the secondary. Videos were taken of some of these smoke tests and at some point I may post them somewhere.  

 

The mirror box is sealed (gaskets) with only the HEPA intake filter and exhaust ports in the mirror cover center (when open) exposed to the world.  All this was done to keep insects, rodents & dust out of the mirror box during garage storage and prevent dust accumulation during the cool-down period. Will this reduce mirror cleaning cycles?...only time will tell.  

A small point I'd like to add regards the shroud. To complete the airflow picture & try to minimize dust accumulation during observation (when the fans are operating), the shroud is clamped tight against the mirror box. This is so the fan-forced airflow is directed mostly out of the top of the cage. Otherwise a venturi effect would be created and dust pulled in around the bottom of the shroud close to the mirror.

 

Ed

Attached Thumbnails

  • Fan Assebly Complete.jpg
  • Fan cover removed1.jpg
  • Fan cover&filter removed1.jpg

Edited by phonehome, 09 August 2017 - 11:42 AM.

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#53 phonehome

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:28 AM

More pixs:

Attached Thumbnails

  • Fan cover&filter removed2.jpg

Edited by phonehome, 10 August 2017 - 07:58 AM.

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#54 phonehome

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:30 AM

Continued:  These are incomplete under-construction pixs

Attached Thumbnails

  • Fan ports-construction.jpg
  • Baffle1.jpg

Edited by phonehome, 09 August 2017 - 11:31 AM.

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#55 phonehome

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:33 AM

Bigger picture with cell:

Attached Thumbnails

  • Cell+Baffle2.jpg
  • Cell+Baffle1.jpg

Edited by phonehome, 09 August 2017 - 11:35 AM.

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#56 phonehome

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 11:39 AM

This pix is of one of the collimation motor assemblies but if you look closely the attached circular deflector can be seen.

 

The small gap provides no-touch clearance for the mirror clip.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Collimation Motor & Air Deflector.jpg

Edited by phonehome, 09 August 2017 - 11:41 AM.

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#57 starzonesteve

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 09:22 PM

Beautiful work. I really appreciate the birds eye view and explanation.

 

Steve



#58 phonehome

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 11:59 PM

Anyone notice the mechanical variant of a "tuned dynamic vibration reducer/suppressor"?

 

Here are some pixs of the mirror cover to complete the air-flow & cooling system.  The two 4" diameter central vents can be seen from the bottom side.  The two pawls for grabbing the mirror box/deflector ring that holds the cover in place are also visible...nothing fancier than a really big version of a camera lens cover!  A hidden (internal) 90 degree turn-stop gives positive open/close positions.  White & black plugs are used for visual indicators of position and the white ones glow in the dark.  The entire cover is made from expanded PVC. The perimeter foam gasket in the last pix is recessed into a groove to prevent it from being crushed when the cage is nested on top of the mirror box cover.

 

As Tom Masterson pointed out, turning the knob/handle unlocks the cover from the mirror box and simultaneously opens the vents for cooling.  The same is true in reverse.  The knob/handle on top is designed to give a good secure grip from any direction.  In this scope it allows the secondary mirror to be mounted lower in the cage without fear of touching versus a traditional handle.

 

Ed

 

1st pix is bottom view vent open - pawls in

2nd pix is bottom view vent closed - pawls out

3rd pix is top view open

4th is top view closed

5th is edge-on view of foam gasket

Attached Thumbnails

  • Mirror Cover Inside Open.jpg
  • Mirror Cover Inside Closed.jpg
  • Mirror Cover Outside Open.jpg
  • Mirro Cover Close1.jpg
  • Mirror Cover Edge Foam Gasket.jpg

Edited by phonehome, 13 August 2017 - 12:07 AM.


#59 csa/montana

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:10 AM

Elvira is an amazing work of art, not to mention her capabilities!  In one word; Wow!shocked.gif 

 

Thanks for sharing these photos & explanations, for those that dare to dream!smile.gif 



#60 opticsguy

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 09:43 AM

Op here.  Wanting to bump this forum up a little for many who might not have yet read about this incredible scope. 

Honestly, this scope is a game changer, at least for me. I just re-read this entire forum to refresh my memory and understanding.

 

I have observed through many large aperture scopes but always up on some kind of ladder. Ladders have never bothered me before, simply a small inconvenience when using large scopes. In fact I use a 6'  ladder for my 8" f/13 refractor, usually only one step up but lean against the ladder for comfort and stability.

 

There are and have been some very fast large aperture scopes already being used by observers. Elvira is the first opportunity I have had to use a scope of this design (short focal length).  Not being on any kind of ladder at all and being able to move a scope directly to an object and then viewing into our universe and seeing stunning images is really what observing is about and should be about.  

 

I plan to observe through several large aperture scopes at OSP next week to better understand the possibilities of large aperture short focal length scopes without the amazing features found here on Elvira. 

Elvira is a turning point for me and has convinced me, a large fast high quality optical scope is possible in my not too distant future.  

 

Elvira is a game changer and a book could be written on how to really build the very best scope.  


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#61 Bob S.

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 10:43 AM

Elvira is a game changer and a book could be written on how to really build the very best scope.  

Opticsguy, It is great that you were able to share your initial impressions of Ed's really advanced telescope with us. I suspect that Ed, the builder/designer has extensive engineering expertise to have built such an incredibly advanced and complex telescope.

 

However, (there are always howevers tongue2.gif ), as I look and study Elvira's design parameters, I keep thinking about the fact that all of these complex systems were made to fit into a telescope that will be exposed to a rather harsh environment which is the night air out in an open field. I personally would worry that I was one resistor or diode away from having a very complex and inoperable telescope. You suggest that Elvira is a "game changer" and I am wondering what game we are talking about? 

 

I had an opportunity to have John Pratte build a 20" f/3 JP Astrocraft with some of Lockwood's fine mirrors and I agree that Lockwood is building superb fast mirrors that provide great views with the proper coma correction. However, even in my more simplistic design parameters compared to Elvira, I found that as you increase a scope's complexity, you also introduced more things that can go wrong if some electrical components do not function properly. In my situation, the only thing that did not meet expectations in terms of functionality was a built-in laptop charging system and a laptop warming system to prevent dew. Additionally, my scope design utilizing the de Lio baffles did not prove to be all that advantageous in terms of improving performance in terms of boundary layer mitigation.

 

Before we get ahead of ourselves and decry that uber-complex designs are the way of the future, I think we need to see over time how Ed feels about the performance of his scope in terms of all of the features that he has incorporated. I suspect that like a lot of other futuristic thinkers/designers, Ed will find that some features are more useful than others. So, I would think that the "book" has not yet been written on what the ultimate Newtonian is or should be? I think about the Laws of Parsimony and/or Occam's Razor and wonder how those heuristics play into what we are contemplating?


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#62 opticsguy

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 11:56 AM

Good morning Mr Bob S.  Appreciate your comments and thoughts.  

 

To clarify my thoughts from my previous post.  Elvira is a game changer in several ways....for me.  Each persons experience with such a scope will be possibly quite different. Game changer because of all this scope can do and do well and do excellently and is so user friendly.  In response to your comments about complexity of this scope. I agree, but only from my perspective. I know how to plug in an extension cord, but understanding let alone repairing such a complex system is waaay beyond anything I could ever manage. My opportunity with Elvira was many many hours of observing with none of the responsibility for set up, maintenance, etc.  This was an opportunity and experience I can simply cherish.

 

 All my scopes are push-to, I have no electronics at all except my telrad for observing. I use printed-on-paper charts to guide me around the skies and am a successful observer with the goals I have set for myself.

 

The game changer part is being more confident in chasing down optics similar to Elvira and building my own scope. I had mentioned this aspect before. 

 

When I mention a book about this scope, I am actually thinking about telling a story about one mans adventure from dream to reality. Technology is changing fast and what is cutting edge today is old in the future, a book on the technology could be outdated in the not so distant future. Thinking about the robotics and what could and what will happen in the future, who knows.  

 

In conclusion:  My original posting of Ed's Scope represents my excitement and inspiration and very short story about my experience to be shared with others.  I still have the same feelings today as when posted and the experience has simply expanded my horizons.  

 

Thank you everyone for sharing.

Kreig


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#63 turtle86

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 12:21 PM

Elvira is an amazing work of art, not to mention her capabilities!  In one word; Wow!shocked.gif

 

Thanks for sharing these photos & explanations, for those that dare to dream!smile.gif

 

What Carol said! :)



#64 phonehome

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:48 PM

 

However, (there are always howevers tongue2.gif ), as I look and study Elvira's design parameters, I keep thinking about the fact that all of these complex systems were made to fit into a telescope that will be exposed to a rather harsh environment which is the night air out in an open field. I personally would worry that I was one resistor or diode away from having a very complex and inoperable telescope. You suggest that Elvira is a "game changer" and I am wondering what game we are talking about? 

 

I had an opportunity to have John Pratte build a 20" f/3 JP Astrocraft with some of Lockwood's fine mirrors and I agree that Lockwood is building superb fast mirrors that provide great views with the proper coma correction. However, even in my more simplistic design parameters compared to Elvira, I found that as you increase a scope's complexity, you also introduced more things that can go wrong if some electrical components do not function properly. In my situation, the only thing that did not meet expectations in terms of functionality was a built-in laptop charging system and a laptop warming system to prevent dew. Additionally, my scope design utilizing the de Lio baffles did not prove to be all that advantageous in terms of improving performance in terms of boundary layer mitigation.

 

Before we get ahead of ourselves and decry that uber-complex designs are the way of the future, I think we need to see over time how Ed feels about the performance of his scope in terms of all of the features that he has incorporated. I suspect that like a lot of other futuristic thinkers/designers, Ed will find that some features are more useful than others. So, I would think that the "book" has not yet been written on what the ultimate Newtonian is or should be? I think about the Laws of Parsimony and/or Occam's Razor and wonder how those heuristics play into what we are contemplating?

 

Bob, I certainly understand your reservations regarding complex systems and their tendency for failure.  What was it Einstein said "any fool can make things bigger, more complex and more violent".   That certainly may describe me.  Elvira was made to satisfy my particular needs and wishes in a dob, not anyone elses.  We each bring our blend of strengths and weaknesses to the table, each hope to contribute somehow and at the end of the day push progress forward for all.

 

Any good "engineer" knows that systems can and do fail. The question is how to deal with it in the form of redundant or backup systems or operation compensation techniques.  Elvira has a number of these but I will give four simple examples:

 

What happens if there is a catastrophic transport unit electronics failure?  Look closely at the side view of the transport unit & you will see a small lever.  There is also a lever on the opposite side.  When engaged they disconnect the drive wheel shafts from the gearboxes to free the wheels.  In the same pix you will see a small loop that has been welded under the front end that is used as a tie-down and as a place to use a rope or strap to pull.  Together these two items allow the loaded/unloaded unit to be pulled (and/or pushed) around like any cart. 

 

What happens if there is a electric lift failure?  Stowed inside the ground board is a hex wrench that when inserted into a labelled externally accessible hole releases the lift and allows for hand retraction/extension of the leg.  This allows the scope to still be loaded or offloaded & manually levelled.

 

What happens if there is a catastrophic failure of the scope's electronics?  The default off-mode of the scope is designed as no power/float so at least traditional push-to operation can still be performed.

 

What happens if the battery malfunctions or runs down?  Adjacent to the battery is a main power disconnect and a power port that is compatible with the undocked charging cable.  The transport unit can power the scope directly through this cable, bypassing the internal lithium charger, and at a distance of about 10' away.

 

I heard several people at Eden Valley mention that the electronic clutch system in Elvira is like power steering for a big dob (which I yet to describe in this thread).  Why such a system?  My desire was to create a dob without any friction or sticktion concerns, no pushing-through-clutches and no counterweight/balance issues.  This also extends to not feeling the gearboxes, belts or backlash or anything else while I am very gently pushing to objects.  So continuing the analogy of power steering, such as we find in vehicles, it is obviously a much more complex system than manual steering.  It's not in a good environment (cold, heat, vibration, dust, water, etc.) but I don't hear too many folks being so concerned that a return to manual steering is called for.

 

And as you point out, only time will tell if such things are worthy additions to the cause.  

 

Ed


Edited by phonehome, 15 August 2017 - 01:49 PM.

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#65 turtle86

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:22 PM

 

 

However, (there are always howevers tongue2.gif ), as I look and study Elvira's design parameters, I keep thinking about the fact that all of these complex systems were made to fit into a telescope that will be exposed to a rather harsh environment which is the night air out in an open field. I personally would worry that I was one resistor or diode away from having a very complex and inoperable telescope. You suggest that Elvira is a "game changer" and I am wondering what game we are talking about? 

 

I had an opportunity to have John Pratte build a 20" f/3 JP Astrocraft with some of Lockwood's fine mirrors and I agree that Lockwood is building superb fast mirrors that provide great views with the proper coma correction. However, even in my more simplistic design parameters compared to Elvira, I found that as you increase a scope's complexity, you also introduced more things that can go wrong if some electrical components do not function properly. In my situation, the only thing that did not meet expectations in terms of functionality was a built-in laptop charging system and a laptop warming system to prevent dew. Additionally, my scope design utilizing the de Lio baffles did not prove to be all that advantageous in terms of improving performance in terms of boundary layer mitigation.

 

Before we get ahead of ourselves and decry that uber-complex designs are the way of the future, I think we need to see over time how Ed feels about the performance of his scope in terms of all of the features that he has incorporated. I suspect that like a lot of other futuristic thinkers/designers, Ed will find that some features are more useful than others. So, I would think that the "book" has not yet been written on what the ultimate Newtonian is or should be? I think about the Laws of Parsimony and/or Occam's Razor and wonder how those heuristics play into what we are contemplating?

 

Bob, I certainly understand your reservations regarding complex systems and their tendency for failure.  What was it Einstein said "any fool can make things bigger, more complex and more violent".   That certainly may describe me.  Elvira was made to satisfy my particular needs and wishes in a dob, not anyone elses.  We each bring our blend of strengths and weaknesses to the table, each hope to contribute somehow and at the end of the day push progress forward for all.

 

Any good "engineer" knows that systems can and do fail. The question is how to deal with it in the form of redundant or backup systems or operation compensation techniques.  Elvira has a number of these but I will give four simple examples:

 

What happens if there is a catastrophic transport unit electronics failure?  Look closely at the side view of the transport unit & you will see a small lever.  There is also a lever on the opposite side.  When engaged they disconnect the drive wheel shafts from the gearboxes to free the wheels.  In the same pix you will see a small loop that has been welded under the front end that is used as a tie-down and as a place to use a rope or strap to pull.  Together these two items allow the loaded/unloaded unit to be pulled (and/or pushed) around like any cart. 

 

What happens if there is a electric lift failure?  Stowed inside the ground board is a hex wrench that when inserted into a labelled externally accessible hole releases the lift and allows for hand retraction/extension of the leg.  This allows the scope to still be loaded or offloaded & manually levelled.

 

What happens if there is a catastrophic failure of the scope's electronics?  The default off-mode of the scope is designed as no power/float so at least traditional push-to operation can still be performed.

 

What happens if the battery malfunctions or runs down?  Adjacent to the battery is a main power disconnect and a power port that is compatible with the undocked charging cable.  The transport unit can power the scope directly through this cable, bypassing the internal lithium charger, and at a distance of about 10' away.

 

I heard several people at Eden Valley mention that the electronic clutch system in Elvira is like power steering for a big dob (which I yet to describe in this thread).  Why such a system?  My desire was to create a dob without any friction or sticktion concerns, no pushing-through-clutches and no counterweight/balance issues.  This also extends to not feeling the gearboxes, belts or backlash or anything else while I am very gently pushing to objects.  So continuing the analogy of power steering, such as we find in vehicles, it is obviously a much more complex system than manual steering.  It's not in a good environment (cold, heat, vibration, dust, water, etc.) but I don't hear too many folks being so concerned that a return to manual steering is called for.

 

And as you point out, only time will tell if such things are worthy additions to the cause.  

 

Ed

 

 

Kudos to you for having the skill and resources to build a scope exactly the way you like it.  I'm sure it was a labor of love for you. At a minimum, I think many of us would love to have a large Dob that could essentially unload itself from a trailer. I know my lower back would love that. :grin:

 

Anyway, I know I would love to see your scope in action.  Sure hope you'll make it down to Chiefland someday.



#66 ctcables

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:29 PM

Ed can you talk more about the clutch system / photos also would like to know more about the power mirror adjustments something I have been thinking long and hard about for my 34" system. What gear ratio motor are you using? coupler to drive it. I have 2 1RPM motors I had planed on using but this might be to slow.  Anyway as a builder myself I can only say I love what you have done.  Thank you for sharing.

 

PS I think I have the same wheel chair parts you have used for your transport, mine will not be a cart per say but will use the frame of the scope to mount the drive wheels.  It looks like a great conversion for this. Anyway just outstanding and happy to take you out to lunch anytime to talk Telescopes.

 

Chris Tribe


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#67 Bob S.

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 02:35 PM

Ed aka phonehome, thank you for taking the time to provide some more detailed insights and examples into why and what you have built. I do understand and appreciate that you spent countless hours building an instrument that met your very exacting personal standards/expectations for a high-functioning Newtonian.

 

If you are so inclined, please keep the thread going with continued insights into your motivations and expectations for certain design parameters. This really helps curious folks like myself to put "meat on the bones" of a complex skeletal structure that is unlike any other amateur Newtonian that I have seen. The suggestion that a Newtonian is a "wobbly stack" of mirrors seems to fly out of the proverbial window on your build waytogo.gif   Bob


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#68 phonehome

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 02:15 PM

Thanks to everyone supporting this thread.  With the eclipse fast approaching & another star party immediately afterwards I won't be able to post on a daily basis. However I would at least like to answer Chris's question regarding collimation and will provide more detailed information at a later date.  Thanks for the lunch offer Chris.

 

Building a robust & reliable remote collimation system was easy compared to mating it with the "human" interface.  When done right it can be downright fun to collimate & "nail" the setting every time...if it's off it can be very frustrating.  Much time was devoted to getting this little part "just right". 

 

Since everyone's interpretation of "just right" is different here is the method I used:  Staring at Howie's TuBlug, a version of a barlowed target, it takes about 4 to 5 seconds for me (and several others who have seen it) to just make out with certainty, which way the return laser is moving on the target. Much faster, say 1 or 2 seconds and overshoot starts to become a problem.  Much slower, 8-10 seconds or so, makes it hard {for me} to retain a stare plus I get bored. And at least for me the same timing parameters were noticed at the eyepiece under high magnification star testing.

 

The method I used to determine this was to shoot high using a temporary gearbox/motor and a PWM control to "dial down" to find the ideal speed at the collimation tool.   That became the design point for the maximum primary mirror movement speed. From there the lowest required speed was determined by high-magnification star tests.  For me this proved to be about 1/8th to 1/10th of the barlowed target speed.  I found this difference a bit surprising but it clearly indicated that a single fixed-speed solution would not work well.

 

With the min and max speed of mirror movement determined the rest was easy:  2 RPM of gearhead output driving a stainless 1/2"-20 thread bolt moving a heim joint of a 3 point cell mounting system (one point pivoting but fixed) gives an edge movement of about 0.10" per minute.   This translates to about 0.048" of vertical primary centermark movement per minute at maximum speed and roughly 0.005" per minute at minimum speed (well before motor stall).   For Chris's scope, I would probably use these numbers as his primary f-ratio of 2.89 is close.

 

So with Elvira, the maximum output speed of the gearbox/motors is 2 RPM at 12VDC at 0.060 amps (60 milliamps each) which can be adjusted down to 0.2 RPM.  Even though the gearbox/motor units are smaller than a pack of cigarettes they can lift the 55 lb. mirror even when sitting level (scope pointed at zenith).  Due to the lack of motor mounts in this design, the motors are virtually silent with only the click of the direction buttons and corresponding movement of target as indicators of operation.  That's just the way I wanted it.

 

Ed


Edited by phonehome, 17 August 2017 - 05:05 PM.

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#69 ctcables

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 03:33 PM

EDD thank you for the outstanding detail this is of great help. I very much like the idea of being able to adjust the mirror from the eyepiece. I think the three RPM Motors I purchased will work just fine from your description. Hope you have a good time at the eclipse I will be in Salem



#70 phonehome

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Posted 10 December 2017 - 11:18 PM

Before I continue posting construction info I thought it would be good to plug darthwyll's video of Okie-Tex 2017 on YouTube (first posted here in the Starparty Forum):

 

https://youtu.be/P5bnS8MDFwE

 

There's some video of Elvira and later a bit more with Bram driving her around.

 

PH


Edited by phonehome, 10 December 2017 - 11:25 PM.

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#71 Mike Lockwood

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Posted 11 December 2017 - 10:14 AM

Thanks for the link - it was nice to see the video.  I have video of Sunday night's storms with their memorable lightning display.

 

There are a few photos of Elvira in my Okie-Tex article:  http://www.loptics.c...kietex2017.html

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what Ed is up to next.


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#72 Chucky

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:07 AM

<<  I have video of Sunday night's storms with their memorable lightning display.  >>

 

I'd love to see it Mike.  I was setup across from all the large dobs....in a tent.  By a miracle, my tent didn't end up in Mexico.  Unreal wind !!



#73 jgroub

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 03:00 PM

Ed, I just met Elvira at RMSS.  She is quite the gorgeous little thing.  

 

Let me just leave it there and say great job!  bow.gif


Edited by Chuck Hards, 21 June 2018 - 11:03 PM.
Edited to conform to family-friendly decorum


#74 Mike Lockwood

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 03:32 PM

She's quite the looker, and I hear she's been working out and has lost some weight.... (ducks to avoid objects thrown)



#75 Pinbout

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 09:22 PM

Ed, I just met Elvira at RMSS.  She is quite the gorgeous little thing. 

Let me just leave it there and say great job!  bow.gif

Fat bottom girls, you make the rockin world go round


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