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Solar Eclipse Maestro

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#51 cdavid

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:48 PM

That helps.....I see why I was confused....I kept thinking only of the degree of brightness of the still present sun rather than the effect we are trying to achieve.

Much thanks!

Carlos



#52 banjo1000

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 04:24 PM

Hi Jerry,

 

I was referring to the non-LiveView, viewfinder comment in the photostackexchange.com URL:

 

    "The Silent mode single option uses a slower speed to move the mirror up out of the light box." 

 

In LiveView, the mirror locks up ahead of time. I believe but would have to confirm it remains locked up in Silent Continuous mode. In Silent Continuous mode, the biggest source of vibrations seems to be from the reset of the curtain shutter *after* the exposure.

 

There is another helpful report on the silent shooting feature from the world of microscopy at

 

    http://krebsmicro.co...EFSC/index.html

 

I agree, LVPSTART would solve many problems, and I glad for you that it works on your 7D Mark II. Don't you have a 6D as well?  Could you give LVPSTART a try on your 6D?  For me, LVPSTART on my 6D turns on LiveView and locks the mirror up, but it appears that the next TAKEPIC or TAKEBST command exits the camera from LiveView and drops the mirror before executing TAKEPIC or TAKEBST. Same for you, or have Missed something?

 

Please understand any of my comments as suggestions or requests, NOT complaints. Xavier has done the community a tremendous service. SEM is free (donation) ware, so complaints would not be appropriate. I am very grateful that SEM offers many features that are only available in the Pro version of Eclipse Orchestrator. It's just a pity for me that Nikon support is better than for Canons, but that is completely Xavier's prerogative. 

 

As for timing, I only appreciated Silent mode as of a day or two ago. I'd love to set the Wayback machine back two months, but Mr. Peabody is nowhere to be found when I need him!

 

Joe

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jerry,

 

For an explanation of silent shooting, see 

 

https://photo.stacke...silent-shooting

 

Thanks Joe, I read that thread and I don't see anywhere that it says the shutter curtain is slowed down.  Perhaps I missed it.  Perhaps you misinterpreted it.

 

 

 

Canon tech support confirms, and I have verified independently.  Silent mode is real, and it would be a killer feature for SEM. Even in the last minute!

 

I didn't say it wasn't real. I said I would not ask Xavier to implement it a week before the eclipse. This is something you should have thought of months ago. 

 

LVPSTART documentation says Nikon only.  Have you gotten it to work in your Canon6D?  It seems on my Canon 6D that LVPSTART locks the mirror up, but as soon as I hit a TAKEPIC or TAKEBST, the mirror lockup is canceled so I get extra vibration.  Do you see something different?

 

I have it working with a 7D Mark II. Works great. I'm using it for Diamond Ring bursts at 1/60th second.

 

I have not found a way to lock the mirror up before TAKEBST on a Canon, have you?

 

Yes, with LVPSTART.

 

It seems to be a design shortcoming, at least for Canons.  Better still would be a "Take Silent Burst" command. Alas, support for Nikons is more complete than for Canons.

 

Well, I don't know of hardly any, if any, Nikons or Canons that keep the mirror locked up between frames on a simple MLU command.  Maybe the D810? Maybe other ones you know about that I don't...  

 

In any event, I don't think that Solar Eclipse Maestro support is any more complete for Nikons than Canons. Xavier has to work within the limitations of the hardware and the SDK. There are just some things you can do in the SDK for Nikon that you can't for Canon, and vice versa.  And there are some hardware features that vary from camera model to camera model within a brand.  Considering what a mess this is, I think Xavier did an exceptional job.

 

I'm not sure it is fair to come to this so late and then start complaining. 

 

Jerry

 

 



#53 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:55 PM

 

I was referring to the non-LiveView, viewfinder comment in the photostackexchange.com URL:

 

    "The Silent mode single option uses a slower speed to move the mirror up out of the light box." 

 

I think you said the shutter curtain moves more slowly... which is what I questioned, and still do. Not the mirror.

 

 

I agree, LVPSTART would solve many problems, and I glad for you that it works on your 7D Mark II. Don't you have a 6D as well?  Could you give LVPSTART a try on your 6D?

 

I don't even have a 7DM2, let alone a 6D.  I have a 7DM2 that is borrowed from a friend, so I don't have a 6D to test right now.  Sorry.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#54 banjo1000

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:00 PM

Touché. You are correct, it's just the mirror that moves more slowly.  The shutter open seems to happen at a normal speed after the previous shot has completed. I misspoke.

 

-Joe

 

 

 

I was referring to the non-LiveView, viewfinder comment in the photostackexchange.com URL:

 

    "The Silent mode single option uses a slower speed to move the mirror up out of the light box." 

 

I think you said the shutter curtain moves more slowly... which is what I questioned, and still do. Not the mirror.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#55 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 10:57 PM

 

Touché. You are correct, it's just the mirror that moves more slowly.  The shutter open seems to happen at a normal speed after the previous shot has completed. I misspoke.

Hi Joe,

 

No biggie, it just sounded very curious to me because from what I remember, the speed of the shutter slit moving across the sensor is what actually sets the exposure for those exposures that use the shutter as a slit (not open for multiple seconds) when the shutter is used, so I didn't see how you could slow it down.

 

Jerry



#56 banjo1000

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:15 AM

Jerry,

 

From what I've been reading, when in silent mode, the sensor is continuously exposed to light before the picture. Light has to reach the sensor for LiveView to work. It appears the "start integration" happens electronically, what is called an electronic curtain shutter. Basically, the integrated charge for each pixel is zeroed, and then it starts integrating  until the rear edge of the mechanical shutter closes. 

 

Canon must have worked hard on the timing of that first electronic clear signal which has to progress across the sensor.

 

On another subject, I have happy news.  I figured out how to get LVPSTART to work on a Canon 6D, probably any Canon EOS model. There are two settings that have to be done on the camera. LiveViewShooting has to be enabled AND Sllent Live Shooting has to be set to "Mode 1".  As I tell my students, sometimes it helps to RTFM.

 

Joe

 

 

Hi Joe,

 

No biggie, it just sounded very curious to me because from what I remember, the speed of the shutter slit moving across the sensor is what actually sets the exposure for those exposures that use the shutter as a slit (not open for multiple seconds) when the shutter is used, so I didn't see how you could slow it down.

 

Jerry

 


Edited by banjo1000, 13 August 2017 - 05:18 AM.


#57 andysea

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:08 AM

By the way, a new version has been released and SEM now supports DSUSB shutter release.

#58 fielderda

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:59 AM

I can concur with Jerry,

 

LVPSTART works great and I've been able to use it both for my 80D and 60D. 

I originally put in a few checks during my run to see if the tracking on my mount needed minor adjustments throughout C1 to C4 but the tracking was fine. 

 

During Totality, I keep LiveView on so mirror lock is always engaged.



#59 andysea

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:25 AM

I can confirm LVPSTART works on both the 5d4 and, as stated above, on the 6d.



#60 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 01:01 PM

From what I've been reading, when in silent mode, the sensor is continuously exposed to light before the picture. Light has to reach the sensor for LiveView to work. It appears the "start integration" happens electronically, what is called an electronic curtain shutter. Basically, the integrated charge for each pixel is zeroed, and then it starts integrating  until the rear edge of the mechanical shutter closes. 

 

Canon must have worked hard on the timing of that first electronic clear signal which has to progress across the sensor.

 

On another subject, I have happy news.  I figured out how to get LVPSTART to work on a Canon 6D, probably any Canon EOS model. There are two settings that have to be done on the camera. LiveViewShooting has to be enabled AND Sllent Live Shooting has to be set to "Mode 1".  As I tell my students, sometimes it helps to RTFM. 

With a CCD camera you can get a full electronic shutter, no mechanical second shutter needed.

 

You need a mechancial shutter for the second curtain with CMOS. Something about the way it is read out.

 

You mean you didn't RTFM?

 

Jerry



#61 AstroGabe

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:00 PM

 

Hi Guys, quick question-

 

I am a little stumped by the exposure calculator recommendations in SEM.  The script it generated shoots the "Diamond Rings" as second contact is approaching and gives an exposure that is longer than the subsequent (in the script) Baily's beads.  Aren't the diamond rings brighter than Baily's beads?  What am I missing here?

 

I am aware of the two definitions but in the script generated by SEM- the Diamond rings come first, then Bailys beads followed by totality and reversed at the end of totality.

Yes, the DR is brighter than the BBs, and you need longer exposures.

 

You need the long exposure for the outer corona which makes up the "ring" in the diamond ring.

 

If you expose correctly for the BBs, you don't get the ring.

 

Jerry

 

I'm confused a bit.  The DR is brighter, but need longer exposures?  Isn't the DR dimmer than BB or am I missing something?

 

Also, what's the timing for when BB start/end w.r.t. C2/C3?  I kept getting times that are right on top of the DR, and get around 2s between exposures with my D610 in RAW mode, so wonder when the best time would be to start the BB and then the DR images.

 

Gabe



#62 SFGagnon

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:08 PM

The DR exposure is longer because you are also trying to capture the corona. The photosphere is the diamond and the corona silhouetting the moon makes the ring.



#63 dale tucker

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:18 PM

Multiple Cameras in SEO question?

 

I have tried to understand how to add cameras in SEO to the script, but have not been successful. 

Do I place the ALLCAMS somewhere in the script, or is it done in the camera configuration?

 

I would like to have two cameras firing the same sequence in the script.

 

Where do I add the second camera?

 

D7200

D7000

 

thanks

Dale



#64 corduroy

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:24 PM

Dale, you just duplicate the commands and change the camera name.   For example, I have a Canon 550D, 70D, 7DM2 running the exact same commands.  Wha I don't know is if the timing can be exactly the same.  My script appears to be working. I just sent a PM to Xavier asking if the timing can be identical or if they should be staggered by a few 10ths of a second.  I will let you know what he says.

 

 

FOR,(INTERVALOMETER),1,2.001,5
TAKEPIC,C1,-,00:00:02.0,7DM2,1/500,6,200,0.000,RAW,None,N,First contact
ENDFOR

FOR,(INTERVALOMETER),1,2.001,5
TAKEPIC,C1,-,00:00:02.0,70D,1/500,6,200,0.000,RAW,None,N,First contact
ENDFOR

FOR,(INTERVALOMETER),1,2.001,5
TAKEPIC,C1,-,00:00:02.0,550D,1/500,6,200,0.000,RAW,None,N,First contact
ENDFOR



#65 dale tucker

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:39 PM

Thank you for the quick reply.

 

I would really like to use SEO for two of my cameras because I will be manually operating my other camera on my scope etc.

 

I just don't see the best way to add the 2nd camera into the script etc.

 

thanks 

Dale



#66 andysea

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:44 PM

I have developed two scripts that are fine tuned for my two cameras and then copied both of them into a new script file. I tested the script and it controls both cameras perfectly.

#67 cdavid

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 11:57 PM

I can confirm LVPSTART works on both the 5d4 and, as stated above, on the 6d.

Agree, it works on the 6D.  It does NOT work on the 7D (not the mark II version).



#68 banjo1000

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:10 AM

Just in from a night shooting stars to check for vibrations. Most of you probably know your hardware better than me. I decided to update for the eclipse from my 6' Newt that I built in 1971, so all my gear is new or new to me, ES127 scope, Canon 6D, Orion Sirius EQ-G mount.

 

I ramped up my ISO to 25600, and I used SEM to drive my camera as I shot a star field around Arcturus in LiveView Silent Mode 1 (which locks the mirror up and does shutter magic) and without LiveView so the mirror flaps away.  I shot singles, and continuous bursts.  The good news for me is that my mount is solid. I don't see any evidence of vibration in any photo, no matter how I take it.

 

If you haven't done something similar, it's highly recommended. Saves stress about vibrations. During C2 and C3, I can shoot without LiveView Silent to get a higher frame rate, buffer willing. It was also good to practice using SEM in the field.

 

Has anyone benchmarked the time overhead to set up a new TAKEBST command?  My 6D buffer is about 17 deep so I shouldn't fill it before BB/DR/Chromo/Prom are done, but there seems to be a delay associated with starting a new burst.  Making it hard to get timing for BB, DR, chromosphere and Prominences.

 

I remember from TSE 1979 that prominences on the C2 side are best taken right after C2, and the on the C3 side, just before C3.  Does anyone recall how long the window of best opportunity is? Just looking for a rule of thumb.

 

Joe


Edited by banjo1000, 14 August 2017 - 01:14 AM.


#69 Seldom

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 02:30 AM

I've been comparing my printed script with the set of images from running that script and I'm puzzled.  The longest exposure in the corona section of the script (either side of maximum eclipse) is 1.6 seconds, but the image string's longest exposure at maximum eclipse is 2 seconds.  The second longest exposure is 1.6 seconds. The script shows 1.6 seconds max in TextEdit, but when it's loaded into SEM the 2 second exposure appears.  Does SEM have my best interests at heart?


Edited by Seldom, 14 August 2017 - 10:47 AM.


#70 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:46 AM

Has anyone benchmarked the time overhead to set up a new TAKEBST command?  

 

From your department of redundancy department: you have to test it with your own equipment.

 

I remember from TSE 1979 that prominences on the C2 side are best taken right after C2, and the on the C3 side, just before C3.  Does anyone recall how long the window of best opportunity is? Just looking for a rule of thumb.

 

Depends on how big the prominences are, there exact location along the limb, and your observing location. But, if there are any prominences near the C2 and C3 locations, they will be visible from the exact time totality starts while chromosphere is still visible, until the moon covers the prominence, which, again, depends on how big it is. 

 

But if you want the entire prominence from the base in the chromosphere then you basically have the amount of time from C2 until the chromosphere is covered because then the prominence gets starting to be covered too.

 

Use the SEM Baily's Beads simulator. For my location, if the prominence is exactly at the point of C2, I get about maybe 10 or more seconds.

 

Jerry



#71 andysea

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:09 PM

I can concur with Jerry,

 

LVPSTART works great and I've been able to use it both for my 80D and 60D. 

I originally put in a few checks during my run to see if the tracking on my mount needed minor adjustments throughout C1 to C4 but the tracking was fine. 

 

During Totality, I keep LiveView on so mirror lock is always engaged.

 

Are you concerned at all about heat buildup during live view? I am on the fence about using LVPSTART or not.



#72 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 01:52 PM

 

I can concur with Jerry,

 

LVPSTART works great and I've been able to use it both for my 80D and 60D. 

I originally put in a few checks during my run to see if the tracking on my mount needed minor adjustments throughout C1 to C4 but the tracking was fine. 

 

During Totality, I keep LiveView on so mirror lock is always engaged.

 

Are you concerned at all about heat buildup during live view? I am on the fence about using LVPSTART or not.

 

I'm going to use LVPSTART for the bursts around C2 and C3, and then MLU during exposures longer than 1/125th for the corona.

 

Jerry



#73 Seldom

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 10:56 PM

Question re. time zone.  My laptop is set for daylight saving time, so my laptop is -6 hours UT.  Is that the correct time zone setting for  the SEM location form, or is it the -7 physical time zones that separate me from UT when I'm on standard time?



#74 Jerry Lodriguss

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 11:50 PM

Question re. time zone.  My laptop is set for daylight saving time, so my laptop is -6 hours UT.  Is that the correct time zone setting for  the SEM location form, or is it the -7 physical time zones that separate me from UT when I'm on standard time?

I think SEM has automatic time zone detection in the setup.

 

Jerry



#75 Seldom

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:54 AM

 

Question re. time zone.  My laptop is set for daylight saving time, so my laptop is -6 hours UT.  Is that the correct time zone setting for  the SEM location form, or is it the -7 physical time zones that separate me from UT when I'm on standard time?

I think SEM has automatic time zone detection in the setup.

 

Jerry

 

The time zone that shows in the location form is UT -6.




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