65 replies to this topic

[Stew44]

 

 

Great information!

 

The telescope of the first picture model, which me and my friend used at school yard in summer night, is very nostalgic.

 

Hiromu

 

Thank you.  Did you notice the camera mounted on that scope about midway above the tube?

[n2068dd]

 

 

 

Great information!

 

The telescope of the first picture model, which me and my friend used at school yard in summer night, is very nostalgic.

 

Hiromu

 

Thank you.  Did you notice the camera mounted on that scope about midway above the tube?

 

Yes, maybe it was Nikon FTn......but I'm not sure.

I remember that EQ mount was so heavy for Junior high school boy.

We also used older grey model for the teacher.

[Steve_M_M]

Stew.  Nice work here!

 

This is the link to the story of the Titan Observatory 6" Goto Observatory Telescope.

 

https://www.cloudyni...oon-star-party/

 

And this is the restoration link....well, I can't find it.   If someone does, just PM me and I wlil add it here.

 

And, if you want the short no pictures version of the story, here it is....

 

2012

 

I wrote this little story about the telescope and observatory.  The document is attached to my post from April 2012, but I cleaned it up a bit and added a few comments here.  I did not talk about it much back in 2012, but I was losing my job and knew that I would be moving.  So, although I never posted the telescope for sale, when a buyer showed up one day, I made the regrettable decision to sell the telescope.  I really wish I had not.  It is very sad even writing this tonight.  Now, three years have passed and the telescope and it's history seem to have lost contact with me.  Well, here is the story....

 

Titan Observatory

 

In April 1956, the Choate family traveled to Japan to finalize the purchase of the Goto Kogaku 15cm Refractor.  A copy of the actual Northwest Airlines manifest is included with the telescope as a piece of this history.  One must wonder how a young boy of just 16 years old must have felt flying overseas to purchase this large and gorgeous telescope.  Rumor has it the deal was finalized, possibly with the assistance of General MacArthur, a family friend who was living in Tokyo at the time.

 

A few months later, the telescope showed up at the Choate mansion in Los Angeles in 12 wooden crates.  It is from here that the telescope was assembled and the Titan Observatory was born.  A beautiful mahogany wood door lead the owner and guest into the starry night sky of the observatory.   The original door is forever with the telescope.  The included installation manual shows the complex nature of assembling such a large observatory telescope.  Goto flew several technicians to the Choate home to assist in a week long assembly.

 

Joseph was undoubtedly very proud of his telescope.  He actually wrote a book report on the telescope which is kept with the telescope. I am sure the telescope was also the talk of the neighborhood.  It certainly was the talk of the town.  The telescope was pictured prominently in Sky & Telescope magazine in a full page ads.  The telescope also had articles written about it and young Choate in the Los Angeles Times and other local newspapers.  Original prints of all this material is kept with the telescope.  Even long after the Titan Observatory was gone, Goto Kogaku featured the telescope in their 75th anniversary book that was given to a limited 100 dignitaries at the Goto 70th anniversary party. I was given a copy of this rare book.  I acquired original velum drawings for the Goto Kogaku display at the worlds fair in 1930 and was able to get these to Goto who sent myself and a friend one of the last copies of the 70th Anniversary book as a thank you gift.

 

One of the most famous of Jospeh Choates friends was Jon Pons.  Jon spent many nights with the Choate family viewing through the telescope , he too a young boy.  Today, Jon is known as a master telescope maker, optician, and astronomical genius.  Jon was also the master optician for the Griffith Observatory and their giant Zeiss refractor.  Jon plays prominently in the future of the telescope.  He can be seen with the Griffith Zeiss in a photo I kept with the telescope.

 

Jospeh Choate went on to be a prominent lawyer in Los Angeles.  A picture of him later in life is also kept with the telescope.

 

Titan Observatory 1961-2001

 

Unfortunately, the Titan Observatory fell into disrepair during the next 40+ years.  The telescope itself was uncared for during this time.  In 2001, the Choate mansion was set to be demolished.  The contractors contacted the Griffith Observatory to see if they would like to come over and get the telescope.  They did not have any space for storage.  Jon Pons was working at the observatory and as luck would have it, found out about the telescope.  He and a few friends went over to the Choate mansion and hastily disassembled the telescope and removed it from the house.  The iron base weighs about 600lbs and Jon told me they actually dropped in down the stairs.  Upon close inspection, you can actually see this part of the telescope history as a small  indentation in the lower base.  All in all, I suspect the stairs sustained most of the impact!

 

Pictures of the telescope being removed from the home are again kept with the telescope.  The condition appeared poor, but really just needed TLC.  The telescope was restorable without even having to repaint it!

 

Goto Kogaku 15cm Telescope-Jon Pons 2001-2006

 

Over the next 5 years Jon Pons took to restoring the telescope.  For Jon, this was about getting the telescope back to mechanical and optical operation.  One of the biggest challenges was to restore the very rare weight driven clock drive.  Though meticulous attention to detail, Jon not only got it working, he restored it to original beauty.

During the later part of the restoration Jon built a rolling platform and rolled the Goto out of his garage where he kept it, onto the driveway outside his home in Van Nuys.  I first became aware of the telescope when a post was made on CloudyNight's titled Full Moon Star Party.  This post can be seen here

http://www.cloudynig.../fpart/all/vc/1

and is still one of the most viewed posts in the Classic Forum of CN and is one of the most viewed on the entire website about a single telescope.

 

2006-Present

 

In 2006 Steve Miller purchased the Goto Kogaku Refractor.  It was extremely hard for Jon Pons to part with the telescope.  He had known it since he was a boy and had become very attached to it.  There a quite a long story about the purchase that can only be told under a star lit night sky with several hours of free time to kill.  One thing for sure, this purchase would not have occurred without the assistance of Clint Whitman (Caveman).  At the time of my purchase, the telescope was operational, but still in poor cosmetic condition.  I decided to fully restore the telescope.

 

I contacted what was now called Goto Optical in Japan.   They were very happy to learn the telescope still existed today.  They scoured their record book and provided me with the installation manual, instruction manual, and operation manual. I also spoke to some of the long time employees who worked at Goto.  Translation was done by a nice lady at Goto.  My questions to these employees were based around the different types of plating used on the telescope and other restorations I was to perform.  The current condition left no indication of what used to be.

 

After obtaining the information, I took most of the parts over to a well respected plating company.  The owner and I sat down for several hours discussing how each part was to be stripped, polished, and plated.  Because of the exact tolerance of the parts, even the thickness of the plating came into play.  One of the most exciting parts of the restoration was that the original paint was in fantastic condition.  No repainting necessary!  Photos of the restoration can be seen here…

 

http://www.cloudynig.../fpart/all/vc/1

 

The Telescope Today

 

During my ownership, the Goto telescope made several public appearance at my home and at Mt Pinos in CA.  I can remember one of the first years at CSPAMP where the parking lot was full, people were walking for what seemed like miles up the road, and the line at the telescope was 20-30 deep.  The telescope thrilled kids during the 4th of July and Halloween each year.  Neighbors came to understand what a start party was

 

I have several photos of the telescope today.  As everyone has said, the telescope presents itself well in photos, but in person is absolutely amazing.  Through contacts at Goto Opitcal and other Goto collectors in Japan, I have acquired a huge collection of Goto history that is available if wanted.

 

Choate Family-Original Owners

 

The telescope was originally purchased for young Jospeh Choate (b1940-d2010) by his father Joseph Choate  Sr. (b1900-d1998).  The Choates come from a very famous and wealthy family.  A bit of history is in order to understand the significance of the Choate family as original owners.

 

Joseph Choate Jr-Born 1940, d 2010.

Went to Culter academy High School.  Joseph’s diploma was left behind at the home and is included with the telescope.
I also have a picture of Joseph when he was about 2 yrs old that is with the telescope.   After graduation, Joseph went on to law school and then became a named partner in the firm Choate & Choate in Los Angeles.

Father Joseph Choate Sr.-Born 1900, Died 1998.

District Attorney 1927-1934.

He was a good friend of Douglas MacArthur and Chairman of the MacArthur presidential committee in 1947.
Included as memorabilia with the telescope is a photograph of General MacArthur that is signed and says “To Joseph Choate with cordial regard of an old friend, Douglas MacArthur, Tokyo 1949.” Highly collectible in itself.

Grand Father Joseph Hodges Choate Jr-Born 1876, Died 1968.

http://en.wikipedia....h_H._Choate,_Jr.
Chaired the Voluntary Committee of Lawyers, a group established in 1927 that promoted the repeal of prohibition. Upon repeal in 1933, President Franklin Roosevelt named Choate the first head of the Federal Alcohol Control Administration (FACA).

 

Great Grand Father Joseph H Choate-Born 1/1832, Died 5/1917

http://en.wikipedia....h_Hodges_Choate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naumkeag
http://www.answers.c...h-hodges-choate

Great Great Grandfather George Choate-Father of Joseph H Choate, born about 1800’s

GGG Father R.M. Hodges-Father to George Choate, born about 1780’s

History of Joseph R.M Hodges

 

Choate Family immigrates from England 1643

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Rufus_Choate

Choate House still exists today

http://en.wikipedia....(Massachusetts)

Edited by Steve_M_M, 16 August 2017 - 08:55 AM.

[Chuck Hards]

Thanks for posting that, Steve.  Wonderful bit of history.  At least you got to be the scope's caretaker for a while; it (and we) benefited from your stewardship.

[Stew44]

Steve M.M. sent me some ads from the 30's (thanks Steve!).  All show 'Goto's Astronomical Telescopes' and carry the Zeus label.  So a firm confirmation that Shinko-sha's mail order marketing of the Goto scopes in Kagaku-Gahu (Science Illustrated) was under the Zeus label and cases were so marked.  And that Zeus and Greek mythology were the theme for naming them.  My Zeus Eros is listed in one of those ads about halfway down (look for the IOZ) and was definitely a pre-WWII product offering.

 

Edited by Stew44, 18 August 2017 - 02:16 PM.

[Stew44]

By 1974 most Japanese schools had telescopes.  A number of amateur astronomers working at Goto encouraged the company to address the growing demand for telescopes for the amateur community.  A committee was established to do a marketing study.  They wanted a system approach that dealt with imaging, transportabilty, multi-use,  and return to mail order from agent selling.  Thus the Mark-X project telescope was initiated.  And the Mark-X products were given a hammered blue finish to differentiate them from other makers.

 

Goto-san led a team of Optical lens engineers in designing not only an Apochromatic doublet, but to counter the Takahashi fluorite doublet offering then coming out, they initiated designs for semi-apochromatic, triplet apochromatic, and super achromatic lenses in addition to the fluorite doublet lens, and they brought out larger telescopes at 80mm and faster at f/12 and f/8.25.  Coatings work as well made huge gains, resulting in brighter images with more contrast.  And Goto-san encourage marketing through star party-esque gatherings to show off the new telescopes. 

 

 

The Mark-X was 50% more costly than the average amateur scope at the time.  Sales exceeded expectations.

 

In a major step forward for the time, an innovative MX II system was the follow-on product, with a mount that had the ability to be controlled by a PC (think about the PCs available at that time), but use was very complicated and electronics in the mount had  problems that could not be overcome.  Only 68 of these telescopes were sold.

 

 

The Mark-X system scope led sales for only three or four years.  Failure of the MXII; Goto's failure to patent certain system components that lead to wide-spread copying by other manufacturers;  and the lack of commitment by the company to a broad product range ultimately led to Goto's withdrawal from the amateur telescope market with the end of the Mark-X production in 1989.

Edited by Stew44, 20 August 2017 - 06:11 AM.

[Stew44]

The factory at Tsurumaki (built in 1933) had capability designed in to manufacture larger refractors of at least 100mm.  In fact, during the 1930s Goto Optical offered refractors up to 250mm.  The 1938 price list included:

10cm alt-az refractor

10cm portable EQ refractor

 

11.3cm mibile EQ refractor
10cm stationary refractor

 

15cm EQ refractor

 

20cm stationary EQ refractor

 

 

25cm stationary EQ refractor

 

 

 

 

Probably the most interesting part of this section is the numbers of those delivered (plus for two not on the prices sheet).

 

10cm stationary refractor - 11 in Japan, 3 overseas

 

10cm portable EQ refractor - 20 in Japan, 7 overseas

 

12.5cm stationary refractor - 13 in Japan, 2 overseas

 

15cm EQ refractor - 172 in Japan, 14 overseas

 

20cm stationary EQ refractor - 35 in Japan, 1 overseas

 

25cm stationary EQ refractor - 6 in Japan, 1 overseas

Edited by Stew44, 20 August 2017 - 06:11 AM.

[Steve_M_M]

It's interesting in that in my experience the Mark X is very rare.  I have seen 2 for sale in the US over the past 15-20 years and the number for sale  in Japan is also very low.  I would have thought there would be more on the used market.

 

As for the Mark X II.  I know of one....  https://www.cloudyni...-optical-mount/

Edited by Steve_M_M, 19 August 2017 - 06:08 PM.

[Stew44]

The Mark X project goal of eliminating sales agents and bringing marketing back in house probably led to Laszlo's and others demise.  I believe I saw one ST-6 or something like that in one of the Goto threads.  Likely very much trouble to have something marketed here.  Literally would have had to bring something back from Japan.

[Stew44]

Goto Optical also made reflectors.  I won't go into the Coude telescopes that Goto developed for institutional use, except to say that Goto was building these telescopes from the early 70's to the early 90's.  A number of Cassegrains, Newtonians and combo Newt/Cass telescopes were built in apertures of 30cm to 60cm.  None of these made it into the US, but a number of them made it out of Japan and were place in South Korea, Iraq, Hong Kong, Indonesia and Thailand.

 

 

Goto also made a 10cm Maksutov marketed in 1974 and 1975.  The book doesn't have a picture of this but would love to see one.

 

Then there are the Newtonians developed for schools and the amateur markets.  A 15cm was offered pre WWII, pictured here with Goto-san.  This mount incorporates the Southern Hemisphere EQ feature discussed below.

 

 

Newtonians in 15cm were offered in Alt-Az and 20cm and 25cm were offered post WWII in both Alt-Az and EQ configurations.  And Goto developed a very interesting EQ mount for the Southern Hemisphere whereby the scope was on an azimuth adjustable mount with a fixed axis of rotation rod projecting 90 deg from the pier.  Latitude is adjusted by lengthening or shortening this rod.  Then another rod attached to the telescope and this axis of rotation rod and movement of the mount in azimuth would provide RA-like movement, but only for the southern hemisphere.  See diagram below.  For the northern hemisphere it was simply offered as Alt-Az.  These mounts were offered in 4" and 6" apertures post WWII, and the 8" was offered from 1964 through 1968.  The 8" I own is sans mount and mirror is dated 1959, so likely the OTA only was imported to US.

 

 

 

A 16cm newtonian was offered on EQ mount from 1964 through 1985.

 

 

Then with the Mark X mount a 12.5cm newtonian was offered from 1975 though 1989, and a 21cm newtonian on the MXII mount from 1986 to 1988.

 

 

Lastly a 10cm on EQ mount was offered from from 1983 to 1996 during the waining years of school telescope sales.

Edited by Stew44, 23 August 2017 - 10:39 AM.

[mitsos68]

Hi,
the 45cm Cassegrain was pictured in (color) GOTO advertisements in S&T arround 1991-1992. It is installed in Lembang/Bosscha Observatory, Indonesia. Donated from Japanese Goverment.

 

https://bosscha.itb....kop-goto-45-cm/

 

The (almost) horizontal Polar axis must be noted.

 

 

Regards
Dimitris

Edited by mitsos68, 23 August 2017 - 08:38 AM.

[Stew44]

Hi,
the 45cm Cassegrain was pictured in (color) GOTO advertisements in S&T arround 1991-1992. It is installed in Lembang/Bosscha Observatory, Indonesia. Donated from Japanese Goverment.

 

https://bosscha.itb....kop-goto-45-cm/

 

The (almost) horizontal Polar axis must be noted.

 

 

Regards
Dimitris

Oh that I could remember a little Bahasa Indonesian from the brief time I spent there.  Looks like a very interesting read.  Will go to Google translate.  Thanks for sharing this.

[Dave Trott]

This is wonderfully informative, Stew. Fascinating and inspirational. Thank you for your dedication and effort in documenting these wonderful telescopes! 

 

- Dave

[Steve_M_M]

 

Goto also made a 10cm Maksutov marketed in 1974 and 1975.  The book doesn't have a picture of this but would love to see one.

 

Here you go.....

Attached Thumbnails

• 
• 
• 

[Stew44]

Steve,  that is much more than I could have hoped for in a Mak offering.  Single arm mount, wedge, moving mirror focusing.  No control box.  Probably more OTI-ish than Questar-ish.  Interesting eyepiece turret.  Was this one you own(ed) or a pic you found?  If own(ed), what were the optics like?  Any idea on number sold?

 

Always wanted a Tinsley 5", but I think that just moved down a notch on the list and this would be something very nice to stumble across one day.  Thanks for sharing!

[Chuck Hards]

Beautiful little Mak!  Same finder as the 105 & 106.  I'd think about selling a kidney for one of those.

[Stew44]

I have covered most of the telescope history of Goto Inc., and as much of the life of Seizo Goto as the book describes.  I believe the book that Goto-san wrote about his life would probably add a great deal more information, but unlikely that would be in English and further unlikely that I could find a Japanese copy that someone could translate.

 

The one additional bit of information I wanted to add to this topic is that JW started a thread about Goto's return to telescope making.  Both 100mm and 125mm telescopes were offered as a limited edition and quickly sold out.  The optical reviews were not compelling, but they sold pretty quickly to Goto fans, mostly in Japan.  The listed company was Goto Telescopes, Inc.  I checked with the US representative for Goto, Inc, and the company Goto Telescopes, Inc is indeed a wholly owned subsidiary of Goto, Inc.  The company is being managed by a retired Goto, Inc. employee.  I can couple this with a tidbit I gleaned from an email somewhere that the last telescope expert at Goto, Inc. had retired.  Perhaps they are one in the same.   We can maybe expect (and hope) that additional offerings will be forthcoming.  Here is the link.

 

http://gototelesco.c...orporation.html

Edited by Stew44, 27 August 2017 - 07:57 AM.

[bremms]

The Goto and Tinsley Maksutovs are both very uncommon. There was a Tinsley Mak for sale a year or two ago, the only one I've ever seen.

[Stew44]

Here is an eyepiece evolution pic that I wanted to share (thanks Steve).  No time frame per se, but does help in a relative manner to place things.  Kind of like the Unitron straight versus slanted versus silver versus gold.

 

[Dave Trott]

I was so inspired by Stew's post #35 above that I had to make a replica of the Goto Kogaku mounts he shows in that post. My replica works quite well! Here's a picture:

 

 

In preparing to make the mount I learned that the Earl of Crawford had invented a similar device back in the 1800's. That is explained well by Mel Bartels here:

 

http://www.bbastrode...OfCrawford.html

 

Of course, Goto added a wrinkle or two in his implementation.

 

You can see the video I made about my mount here:

 

https://www.youtube....oMmNV4tO0&t=21s

 

- Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stew44]

I was so inspired by Stew's post #35 above that I had to make a replica of the Goto Kogaku mounts he shows in that post. My replica works quite well! Here's a picture:

 

IMG_1347 (683x1024).jpg

 

In preparing to make the mount I learned that the Earl of Crawford had invented a similar device back in the 1800's. That is explained well by Mel Bartels here:

 

http://www.bbastrode...OfCrawford.html

 

Of course, Goto added a wrinkle or two in his implementation.

 

You can see the video I made about my mount here:

 

https://www.youtube....oMmNV4tO0&t=21s

 

- Dave

Thanks Dave!  This really needs to be seen to get the full idea of how this works.  In the picture with the girl and the gentleman at the telescope above, he is likely a teacher actuating the Azimuth (RA) knob while she is at the eyepiece.  Also Dave recognized that, just like other AltAz implementations of EQ motion, there is field rotation.  I missed that.  Great catch Dave!

[JamesE]

Uugh....I love this scopes

[photoracer18]

Goto Optical also made reflectors.  I won't go into the Coude telescopes that Goto developed for institutional use, except to say that Goto was building these telescopes from the early 70's to the early 90's.  A number of Cassegrains, Newtonians and combo Newt/Cass telescopes were built in apertures of 30cm to 60cm.  None of these made it into the US, but a number of them made it out of Japan and were place in South Korea, Iraq, Hong Kong, Indonesia and Thailand.

At least one of their Cassegrains made it to the US. In late 1972 or early 1973 there was one in storage in the NASA warehouse at Goddard. When our newly founded astronomy club at NSA was looking for a scope, one of our founders was Dr. Clint Brooks who was both a mathematician at NSA and worked in the Mariner Missions to Mars at NASA. He got them to donate the 30cm Cassegrain, which was said to be a GOTO to us because it could not do its original purpose which was to track satellites. When we got it was in excellent condition but my guess would be it was older than the early 70's. The mount from more than 50 years of memories was very close to the one on the 30cm dual scope in your photo in post #35. However the metal OTA had little or no other scopes on it except a finder. Very large focuser of maybe 2.5" or so. Pedestal/mount was in three parts, a big wide bell shaped lower section that bolted to the floor, a long column that carried the weights for the drives inside and the mount itself on top. After the club ceased, a number of years later someone came to NSA who tracked down that particular scope, so it had some history behind it, and convinced NSA to surplus it to a government auction so they could repurpose the observatory building and he could buy it. And that's what happened to it. It went west to CA I think.

[Stew44]

Thanks for that.  Only thought we got a bunch of 6" refractors.  To know there is a Cassegrain out there at 12" is something to look for.  Maybe need to contact ATS.

[Bowlerhat]

Hi,
the 45cm Cassegrain was pictured in (color) GOTO advertisements in S&T arround 1991-1992. It is installed in Lembang/Bosscha Observatory, Indonesia. Donated from Japanese Goverment.

 

https://bosscha.itb....kop-goto-45-cm/

 

The (almost) horizontal Polar axis must be noted.

 

 

Regards
Dimitris

This link is dead, but here's a picture of this telescope.