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bino/quadroculars?

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#176 PeterDob

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:51 AM

Dear Peter,

Since you're undoubtedly an expert and have so much experience with binoscopes, I'd be very interested to read your opinion about mono vs. bino.

Cheers,

Peter

#177 PETER DREW

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 05:32 PM

Thanks for the compliment Peter but I don't consider myself an expert as I don't have the in depth theoretical knowledge demonstrated by several of the contributors. I do, however, have considerable experience with the hands on design and construction of binoscopes.I have always found using both eyes is better than one and have been happy to accept that supplying my brain with two signals rather than one signal and one noise is going to be an improvement without the experience being bogged down with analysis paralysis. I recently took a self built 6" refracting and 8" reflecting binoscope to a large meeting under a good sky. Both instruments exceeded my expectations and both outperformed the same aperture mono telescopes at similar magnification with regard to image brightness, this subjectivity was confirmed by other users.Although a degree of improvement must attend larger and larger apertures there must be a point where the law of diminishing returns comes into play as the unavoidable increase in focal length will eventually reduce the field of view to the point where the nicety of binocular viewing is lost. t telescoped

#178 daquad

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:39 AM

Thanks for the compliment Peter but I don't consider myself an expert as I don't have the in depth theoretical knowledge demonstrated by several of the contributors. I do, however, have considerable experience with the hands on design and construction of binoscopes.I have always found using both eyes is better than one and have been happy to accept that supplying my brain with two signals rather than one signal and one noise is going to be an improvement without the experience being bogged down with analysis paralysis. I recently took a self built 6" refracting and 8" reflecting binoscope to a large meeting under a good sky. Both instruments exceeded my expectations and both outperformed the same aperture mono telescopes at similar magnification with regard to image brightness, this subjectivity was confirmed by other users.Although a degree of improvement must attend larger and larger apertures there must be a point where the law of diminishing returns comes into play as the unavoidable increase in focal length will eventually reduce the field of view to the point where the nicety of binocular viewing is lost. t telescoped

Peter,  I understand your experience with the superiority of a binoscope over a monoscope of the same aperture; no one doubts that.  I thought the discussion of this thread was about the superiority of a binoscope over a considerably larger monoscope.

 

Dom Q.


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#179 SPastroneby

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 04:31 PM

 

Thanks for the compliment Peter but I don't consider myself an expert as I don't have the in depth theoretical knowledge demonstrated by several of the contributors. I do, however, have considerable experience with the hands on design and construction of binoscopes.I have always found using both eyes is better than one and have been happy to accept that supplying my brain with two signals rather than one signal and one noise is going to be an improvement without the experience being bogged down with analysis paralysis. I recently took a self built 6" refracting and 8" reflecting binoscope to a large meeting under a good sky. Both instruments exceeded my expectations and both outperformed the same aperture mono telescopes at similar magnification with regard to image brightness, this subjectivity was confirmed by other users.Although a degree of improvement must attend larger and larger apertures there must be a point where the law of diminishing returns comes into play as the unavoidable increase in focal length will eventually reduce the field of view to the point where the nicety of binocular viewing is lost. t telescoped

Peter,  I understand your experience with the superiority of a binoscope over a monoscope of the same aperture; no one doubts that.  I thought the discussion of this thread was about the superiority of a binoscope over a considerably larger monoscope.

 

Dom Q.

 

Well, to be more exact, to which equivalent aperture (in size) a binoscope relates to a mono, was the discussion. Some said it's akin to 1,19 times the aperture of a mono, others that it's 1,41.

 

The difference seems small, but it is important in the area where you look if it would make economically sense to go for a bino (with at least 2 x the cost of the same mono), versus the equivalent mono. Since prices go up non-lineary from a certain threshold (aka, relative big aperture size), logic would indicate that, at a certain point, a bino would be far cheaper for the same abilities/power than a mono. But that point directly relates to how much a bino is the equivalent of which mono-aperture, of course.

 

For an APO refractor (which is why I took the example), this becomes very clear from 150mm upward. Two 150 APO's will be cheaper then one 211 mm APO,  for instance. Because prices go up exponentially for APO's after a certain threshold in aperture-size.

 

For the case for binoscopes ever to break through, even if only in the niche of amateur-observatories, one would need to make sure, once and for all, in an objective way, how much 'better' a bino is compared to a mono.

 

As was said above, there is no doubt that a bino is better than the same (in aperture) mono. But I don't think that was ever contested. However, that does not make the (economical) case for bino's, since the price would go up too (at least two fold) as well. If it costs less to buy a bigger mono who gives equal or better results than two smaller bino's, there is no reason to go for a bino, at least viewed from a cost-benefit perspective.


Edited by SPastroneby, 04 October 2017 - 11:43 AM.


#180 PETER DREW

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 05:47 PM

To be honest, I've not considered large binocular performance in the terms of this current discussion. I have been primarily motivated by my personal enjoyment of the comfort of using both eyes and the appreciation of the subjective perception of improvement of a single optic. I do have several suitable telescopes of equal or larger size with which to make a direct comparison and I am now interested to do so in the near futur. w

#181 SPastroneby

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 11:47 AM

To be honest, I've not considered large binocular performance in the terms of this current discussion. I have been primarily motivated by my personal enjoyment of the comfort of using both eyes and the appreciation of the subjective perception of improvement of a single optic. I do have several suitable telescopes of equal or larger size with which to make a direct comparison and I am now interested to do so in the near futur. w

Please do, and recount your experiences here, it would be much appreciated. The more data - even if informal - on the subject, the better.



#182 SPastroneby

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 04:28 AM

Haha, when searching a bit more, if anyone ever mentions quadroculars, I came across this:

 

http://shelley-hells...28/quadroculars

 

Seems rather an artists impression - and the drawing looks more like a binocular - but I thought it funny. Never heard of 'Tuareg artisans', but it looks a bit like Victorian/Steampunk-style.


Edited by SPastroneby, 10 October 2017 - 04:29 AM.



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