174 replies to this topic

[Jon Isaacs]

i would not recommend anyone commenting on a scope and its performance if you never have owned one.

 

Hogwash & utter drivel.  Most of us comment on products we've never owned, movies we've never seen, music we've never heard, and books we've never read.  One can form an opinion without owning everything ever created or made.

 

Lots of folks would never buy a Questar.  I bought one.  I had informed opinions about it before the purchase, too.

 

I have to agree with Bomber Bob.  This is what he wrote:

 

"I'm not that way.  Variety is the spice of life, and even if I bought a Tak APO, I'd still want to use my other scopes.  My Goto beat a Zeiss, yet I still use my Mayflower 814, and my Lafayette 60x400.

I'd have to see a 4" Tak APO outperform my 6" reflectors -- including the F20 Tinsley (with re-coated mirrors + all the improvements I put into it) -- to believe it.  The Tinsley breaks M31 into dark lanes & star clouds that I can see in town.  (Once I get a Meade mount adapted to my vintage Filotecnica surveyor tripod, the Tinsley can go to the field, too.)

I'm sure that the Takahashi APOs are top quality.  What I found in the Goto vs. Zeiss side-by-side is that F20 has less CA than F13 (honestly, none that I can see).  My 6" reflectors have zero CA, and the RV-6 & Tinsley can match or beat my Edmund 4" F15 in lots of sessions.  I've read that Tak APOs will show false color.  They're a huge step-up from vintage achromatics, but at my age, I don't know that the benefits are worth the cost."

 

 

I see nothing in that post that requires that he has looked through a Takahashi.  He clearly states what he knows from experience and what he has read.  He is discussing his situation, his attitudes, his experiences.   

 

Jon

[starman876]

How can you evaluate anything that you have not experienced first hand.  I would never provide and thorough evaluation of anything unless I had done so from my own observations or experiences.   To provide an opinion on anything from reading another persons report might not be accurate.  Throughout history people have formed the wrong opinion on just about anything from someone else's incorrect report.   evaluating a telescope is a scientific fact and should be done so from scientific facts that can be proven reliably accurate and provide repeated results.

[Jon Isaacs]

How can you evaluate anything that you have not experienced first hand.  I would never provide and thorough evaluation of anything unless I had done so from my own observations or experiences.   To provide an opinion on anything from reading another persons report might not be accurate.  Throughout history people have formed the wrong opinion on just about anything from someone else's incorrect report.   evaluating a telescope is a scientific fact and should be done so from scientific facts that can be proven reliably accurate and provide repeated results.

 

Again, Bob is not evaluating Takahashi telescopes, at least in what I have read.  He is not offering opinions on them.  He is sharing his attitudes and his thoughts:

 

"I'm sure that the Takahashi APOs are top quality....  I've read that Tak APOs will show false color.  They're a huge step-up from vintage achromatics, but at my age, I don't know that the benefits are worth the cost."

 

Do you see Bob evaluating anything without having first experienced it first hand?  For what it's worth, I have also read that the larger Classic Fluorite doublets do show some chromatic aberration, as one would expect given the optical properties of Fluorite etc but I have never seen it for myself.

 

This would seem to be an opportunity to discuss the color correction of the various classic doublets by those who experience with them. 

 

Jon

[Bomber Bob]

Jon, Johann was doing a bit of his "drive-by posting" earlier; being disruptive, like tossing a lit firecracker into the middle of a séance.

 

I'm pretty sure he knows the difference between an informed opinion and a formal evaluation.  Otherwise, all those folks who have a negative opinion of the Criterion Dynamax 8 who've never used one should stop posting until they buy one.  Right??

 

No... a wise buyer will look at a large number of reviews, identify the common issues (good or bad), and make a decision based on the preponderance of the evidence.  That's one benefit of our forums.  When I've done that, I haven't regretted any of my scope purchases.

[Jon Isaacs]

Jon, Johann was doing a bit of his "drive-by posting" earlier; being disruptive, like tossing a lit firecracker into the middle of a séance.

 

I'm pretty sure he knows the difference between an informed opinion and a formal evaluation.  Otherwise, all those folks who have a negative opinion of the Criterion Dynamax 8 who've never used one should stop posting until they buy one.  Right??

 

No... a wise buyer will look at a large number of reviews, identify the common issues (good or bad), and make a decision based on the preponderance of the evidence.  That's one benefit of our forums.  When I've done that, I haven't regretted any of my scope purchases.

 

Yeah:

 

You're probably right about that.  Myself, I have a high opinion of Takahashi scopes but I have very little experience with them and they are not a good fit for my "observing" style.  I would be interested in discussion of the CA in the larger doublets.  

 

Jon

[starman876]

i only provide opinions of scopes i have owned. even then i try to be careful because of only one or two examples. however, when it comes to scopes from companies like TAK, AP, TMB and so forth it is very difficult to find a bad apple.

[rolo]

I've owned three and the CA in an FS152 is insignificant at most. Also,if the topic is about which classic Tak you like best why go off topic and comment about Edmund, Goto,Zeiss, Tinsley, RV6 and Dynamax8? I've seen folks who have made an informed opinion about APOs and are then surprised when they look through one and are more than impressed. Same thing happened to me and the reason I will never take out an achromat as long as I have a good APO around.

[Bomber Bob]

Comparisons started informally early, at Post #3 --> https://www.cloudyni...t/#entry8095669

 

Built a bit at Post #7 --> https://www.cloudyni...t/#entry8096674

 

Asking, Which Classic Takahashi do you like the best? naturally leads to (at least) comparisons between Tak types & models; and, some Tak owners feel inclined to discuss why they chose Takahashi over other brands -- especially between all the APOs available.

[starman876]

why is it so hard to keep a thread on any subject simple.   someone always comes in and starts talking about something else not really related to the original posting.   Is it really that hard.   I would hate to be married to any of you. 

[rolo]

So JW based on what you have read which Tak do you think would be your favorite? The FS102? Maybe the FS128? 

[rolo]

why is it so hard to keep a thread on any subject simple.   someone always comes in and starts talking about something else not really related to the original posting.   Is it really that hard.   I would hate to be married to any of you. 

probably just human nature. Besides were all friends and like to discuss anything and everything about this great hobby! We usually catch ourselves and back on track right?

[starman876]

[Terra Nova]

I looked through an FS102 some years ago at Mars and Jupiter when it was set up against a 4" Unitron and the FS102 won hands down! Zero false color, much deeper color saturation, and better, crisper detail. That said, I can only comment on those that I own and that would be my FC-76 which produces the sharpest, clearest, most colot saturated images of any scope that I currently own! I will be eternally grateful to Dave Trott for that puppy! 

Edited by terraclarke, 05 October 2017 - 06:56 AM.

[rolo]

I think I may need to retract my comment on never taking out an achromat again cause the Unitron 152 is a great performer and unmatched beauty. 

[rolo]

I think I'll join you..  Nothing like a nice cup of coffe and an old issue of Sky & Tel...

[Bomber Bob]

So JW based on what you have read which Tak do you think would be your favorite?

 

That's easy:  FC-76.   I like 3" refractors in general, and from everything I've read, the TAK is about the best APO in that aperture.  And, I'm willing to wait until an old one (c. 1980) pops up -- to fit in with my other vintage Japan-made scopes.  I don't need any other EQ mounts, but finding one with the original kit would be ideal.

[starman876]

the sky 90 is also a fine performer. i have been impressed with its performance. i could take out a fc76 and sky 90 one night and see which one performs better. the sky 90 is a much smaller scope.

[tim53]

So JW based on what you have read which Tak do you think would be your favorite?

 

That's easy:  FC-76.   I like 3" refractors in general, and from everything I've read, the TAK is about the best APO in that aperture.  And, I'm willing to wait until an old one (c. 1980) pops up -- to fit in with my other vintage Japan-made scopes.  I don't need any other EQ mounts, but finding one with the original kit would be ideal.

Like this?  Pure 1982...

 

On a different day, on the Super Polaris mount and set up in our tower, I caught the Sun and Venus setting together...

 

[Terra Nova]

I prefer the later color scheme:

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Edited by terraclarke, 05 October 2017 - 08:37 AM.

[Bomber Bob]

Great photos - Thanks!

 

I'll have my own Meade StarFinder + Tripod rig built this Fall / Winter, good to see how an FC-76 would look on it.  Like Terra's, mine will have a short pier lifting the latitude hub above the tripod leg plate.

 

Wow!  Found a TOA-130NS that's about the same price as a China-made 6" F7 APO --> https://www.highpoin...ok13010-tsa0130

 

Is the Sky 90 more of an imaging model??

[tim53]

I prefer the later color scheme:

When I busted the Dec motor mount on my NJP, and had to make a new bracket to support it better, I had my auto paint guy (the one who mixed Tinky's colors) make an exact duplicate of the later Tak green.  It's a perfect match, and it's oil based, not latex like some touchup paints you can buy now.  

 

...but in a year or so, I haven't had a chance to actually paint that part!  But it will come in handy for repainting counterweights (that always get nicked up in transport).

 

I need him to mix me up some of the earlier darker green for the EM-1 mount, since for that mount I have to abscond a weight from my EM-10, since the Epsilon only came with one weight (and it's not enough).

 

-Tim.

[rolo]

So JW based on what you have read which Tak do you think would be your favorite?

 

That's easy:  FC-76.   I like 3" refractors in general, and from everything I've read, the TAK is about the best APO in that aperture.  And, I'm willing to wait until an old one (c. 1980) pops up -- to fit in with my other vintage Japan-made scopes.  I don't need any other EQ mounts, but finding one with the original kit would be ideal.

That's a good choice! Hope to see you own one some day

[starman876]

Great photos - Thanks!

 

I'll have my own Meade StarFinder + Tripod rig built this Fall / Winter, good to see how an FC-76 would look on it.  Like Terra's, mine will have a short pier lifting the latitude hub above the tripod leg plate.

 

Wow!  Found a TOA-130NS that's about the same price as a China-made 6" F7 APO --> https://www.highpoin...ok13010-tsa0130

 

Is the Sky 90 more of an imaging model??

SKY 90 works really well visually.  It will take some power and ask for more.  Makes a great sky sweeper with pin point stars.  Wish I could find another one to see how a bino set up would work.   

[Esso2112]

My FS-152 does show a tiny bit of color on really bright stars, like Sirius. I have not noticed any color when looking at Jupiter or Saturn. It's one of the scope I will never part with and is also my main imaging scope (have both the original reducer and flattener). 

 

My FCT-100, on the other hand, shows absolutely no color on any object and is a thing of beauty.  This is my grab and go visual scope, although it is a bit heavy and does take longer to cool down than the FS-152.  

[Terra Nova]

JW, this thread on the Tak Sky 90 is currently running in the 'other' forum:

 

https://www.cloudyni...i/#entry6011892