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Those Myauchi clone semi apos?

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26 replies to this topic

#1 dougspeterson

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:39 PM

I have an earlier pair I bought from Vic Maris Stellarvue about 10 years ago, I don't recall semi APO attached. Sharp, colorful. Are these current models from APM and Barska ($1300-1400) the same or does semi APO really mean color error reduction via abnormal dispersion glass, or relabeling a petzval design?

http://apm-telescope...m/item/31383933

APMs more expensive ($3k, UnitedOptical) ED APOs are the real deal FK61 and are fantastic.

Edited by dougspeterson, 13 September 2017 - 11:44 PM.


#2 GamesForOne

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:35 AM

APM has a new "semi-APO" model out with the magnesium body and upgraded mechanics. It only costs about $200 more. I would recommend the magnesium body as it is well-made and relatively light. The improved focuser mechanics are also well worth it.

 

https://farpointastr...yepiece-holder/

 

For another $100 you can get a 90 degree model if you prefer.

 

FYI: I previously owned a pair shown in your link, but sold them in favor of the 100mm APO version. The only thing I noticed about the "semi-APO" is that the yellow/orange/red focus seemed better controlled than the typical achromat. However, the blue/violet dispersion was quite visible on bright objects.

 

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Edited by GamesForOne, 14 September 2017 - 09:59 AM.


#3 edwincjones

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:36 AM

Most posters that have compared the original Miyauchis to the APMs believe the APMs are better,

or at least have more flexible options;  so I doubt the clones can compare .

 

edj



#4 Rich V.

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 01:10 PM

Most posters that have compared the original Miyauchis to the APMs believe the APMs are better,

or at least have more flexible options;  so I doubt the clones can compare .

 

edj

We had a chance to compare four 100mm BTs side by side a number of years ago when the APM apos first came out.

In order of best CA control and smallest star point size, the order was:

#1-  APM ED apo    

#2-  Miyauchi Saturn III  (f7.5 achromat) 

#3-  Oberwerk BT100/45  (95mm f6.3 achromat)

#4-  APM semi-apo  (modified Miya copy; 100mm f5 achromat)

Biggest downsides:

#1-  Greatest amount of ghost images

#2-  Proprietary eyepieces or Siebert custom made only

#3-  Weight and reduced aperture

#4-  Most CA, largest star points, most reflective coatings

An f5 achro, whether the older APM "semi" or original Miyauchi Galaxy is going to have a hard time with CA.  The Miya Saturn went to a longer FL over the Galaxy for better control of aberrations but sacrificed some FOV (33x @ 2° vs, 26x  @2.5°).  Miya also produced the fluorite f5 Galaxy model that edj has; I 'd be curious how they stack up to the current APM apos.  Still the eyepiece issue, though.

You have to keep in mind that the Miyauchis were ahead of their time 20 years ago but advances have been made over the years.  The new APM apo models are as good as they get with the exception of the poor reflection control.  I'd expect the new APM semi-apos to perform noticeably better than the old ones with the exception of reflections which were pretty well controlled in the older model.

Rich


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#5 dougspeterson

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 04:31 PM

I am trying to find whether these early production are the same as current production? If so then mine are "semi APO" emphasis on the semi.

#6 GamesForOne

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 04:51 PM

I am trying to find whether these early production are the same as current production? If so then mine are "semi APO" emphasis on the semi.

Does it have the compression ringed EP turrets? Or the O-ringed ones?

 

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#7 dougspeterson

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 07:46 PM

Mine have the O-ring 1.25" ocular holders and also the mounting points on the barrels which I see are no longer. Mine has a mounting foot as the current are mounted

Edited by dougspeterson, 14 September 2017 - 08:02 PM.


#8 GamesForOne

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 04:01 AM

Mine have the O-ring 1.25" ocular holders and also the mounting points on the barrels which I see are no longer. Mine has a mounting foot as the current are mounted

Then the model you have is likely not the same revision as the link you posted. It was a later generation design. I do not know if the optical performance is comparable, but the later revision did add the "ED Semi-APO" labeling, FWIW.

 

All "ED Semi-APO" models included the compression-ringed focusers as far as I am aware.

 

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Michael Mc



#9 dougspeterson

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:16 AM

So the original version I have decade or more was likely a straight achromat. Anyone done a compro, does the semi ED improve noticeably over the achromat?



#10 GamesForOne

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:11 AM

So the original version I have decade or more was likely a straight achromat. Anyone done a compro, does the semi ED improve noticeably over the achromat?

As far as I am aware, no information is known about what is "ED" about the later revision. At the price offered, it is doubtful that ED glass is used in the main objective pair. There was one post on here a long time ago (that I can no longer find) that showed a supposed diagram of the "ED Semi-APO" internal optics with a second lens set some distance behind the objectives and before the prisms. It was conjectured that perhaps this was the "ED" element since it was a much smaller lens.

 

I have owned a typical Chinese 100mm achromatic refractor and the "ED Semi-APO" binos and to my eye it looked like the color dispersion was better controlled in the red/orange/yellow end of the spectrum. The blue/violet end of the dispersion was still quite visible, but did seem to have a deeper violet color. The overall impression was improved sharpness. That's about all I can say about a direct comparison...

 

I personally would not think the minor optical improvement alone would be worth an upgrade if it is a substantial cost in the trade. I would consider the newest APM semi-APO with the magnesium body primarily for the improved mechanics and perhaps relatively minor optical improvements.

 

With the improved magnesium body and focusers, there is also the possibility of using higher magnifications as the mechanical stability supports it. That is why I opted for the APO model as I do push the magnification at times when I don't want to set up or travel with a less convenient, larger optic. The APO shows its advantages more as the magnification is increased.

 

---

Michael Mc


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#11 dougspeterson

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 12:09 AM

Anyone hazard a guess as to the value of mine? As I recall Garett and others were selling the same units about then, a decade ago.

#12 jay.i

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 04:57 PM

That's a bummer about the APM Semi-APOs, the white ones. I was hoping the CA would be a little better controlled. The ED APO version is way out of my price range for the foreseeable future but the semi-APO could have been within reach. Does anyone have experience with both the white semi-APOs as well as the black 45 degree "ED" semi-APOs? The black ones are way cheaper so I assumed the CA would be kind of bad on them. And just to confirm, I'm talking about these versus these. What does the additional cost get you for the white version, other than a sexier design and dew shields?



#13 Mike G.

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 08:06 PM

I personally just purchased the less expensive black 'semi-apo's', mostly because I couldn't afford the extra cost - the black ones stretched me to my limit plus a bit. But my understanding is that the white semi-apo's use an air spaced doublet while the black models have a cemented doublet. But now I can't find where I saw that so consider that information as just a rumor at this point.   I can tell you that CA is better controlled in the Fl 550mm binos than my 650mm ES AR102 refractor. Also that with the white semi-apo's you get much better eyepieces. The black ones come with 28 and 14mm plossls, the white ones with nice wide fields.



#14 SMark

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 08:18 PM

You probably read it in this thread...

 

https://www.cloudyni...8208apo=&page=3 

 

Most of what you need to know about "the old compared to the new" will be in here, or referenced in here somewhere.



#15 junomike

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 08:54 PM

I personally just purchased the less expensive black 'semi-apo's', mostly because I couldn't afford the extra cost - the black ones stretched me to my limit plus a bit. But my understanding is that the white semi-apo's use an air spaced doublet while the black models have a cemented doublet. But now I can't find where I saw that so consider that information as just a rumor at this point.   I can tell you that CA is better controlled in the Fl 550mm binos than my 650mm ES AR102 refractor. Also that with the white semi-apo's you get much better eyepieces. The black ones come with 28 and 14mm plossls, the white ones with nice wide fields.

 

I personally just purchased the less expensive black 'semi-apo's', mostly because I couldn't afford the extra cost - the black ones stretched me to my limit plus a bit. But my understanding is that the white semi-apo's use an air spaced doublet while the black models have a cemented doublet. But now I can't find where I saw that so consider that information as just a rumor at this point.   I can tell you that CA is better controlled in the Fl 550mm binos than my 650mm ES AR102 refractor. Also that with the white semi-apo's you get much better eyepieces. The black ones come with 28 and 14mm plossls, the white ones with nice wide fields.

I believe the Black Semi Apo's are 500mm F/L.  At least mine are.



#16 Mike G.

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 10:48 PM

 

I personally just purchased the less expensive black 'semi-apo's', mostly because I couldn't afford the extra cost - the black ones stretched me to my limit plus a bit. But my understanding is that the white semi-apo's use an air spaced doublet while the black models have a cemented doublet. But now I can't find where I saw that so consider that information as just a rumor at this point.   I can tell you that CA is better controlled in the Fl 550mm binos than my 650mm ES AR102 refractor. Also that with the white semi-apo's you get much better eyepieces. The black ones come with 28 and 14mm plossls, the white ones with nice wide fields.

 

I personally just purchased the less expensive black 'semi-apo's', mostly because I couldn't afford the extra cost - the black ones stretched me to my limit plus a bit. But my understanding is that the white semi-apo's use an air spaced doublet while the black models have a cemented doublet. But now I can't find where I saw that so consider that information as just a rumor at this point.   I can tell you that CA is better controlled in the Fl 550mm binos than my 650mm ES AR102 refractor. Also that with the white semi-apo's you get much better eyepieces. The black ones come with 28 and 14mm plossls, the white ones with nice wide fields.

I believe the Black Semi Apo's are 500mm F/L.  At least mine are.

 

I had to go back and check my emails from Markus but it's there, he told me they were 550 mm. I can pm you the email if you want, but I won't post it. I bought them a month ago. 



#17 Mr. Bill

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:19 AM

My Black Semi APOs are f/5....500mm.

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#18 Rich V.

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 12:03 PM

IIRC, there was a silver 530mm version of this BT sold by Garrett back in the day as well but I've never heard of a 550mm model until the new APMs came out.

 

Rich



#19 Mike G.

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:43 PM

Ok, here it is from Markus:

 

"The focal length is 550 mm

550 : 60 = 9,2 mm eyepiece

Mit Freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards

Markus Ludes
Inhaber/Owner
Mobil: +49 (0) 174 3234333
APM-Telescopes
Goebenstraße 35
66117 Saarbrücken
www.apm-telescopes.net
www.apm-telescopes.de

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: mgar295@oberlin.net [mailto:mgar295@oberlin.net]
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Juni 2017 20:25
An: Markus Ludes [APM Telescopes]
Betreff: Re: AW: APM semi APO 45* binoculars

thanks, Markus.  what f/l eyepiece would give 60x? (or what is the focal
length of the bino?)

Best Regards,
Mike G."



#20 jay.i

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:35 PM

Loving the high res pictures Bill. Keep 'em coming!! waytogo.gif



#21 Mike G.

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 03:55 PM

so?  anyone have any insight as to the mystery of the focal length? any published information on these things?



#22 Rich V.

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 04:32 PM

so?  anyone have any insight as to the mystery of the focal length? any published information on these things?

I don't think there's any mystery.  I think Markus is referring to the "new" model or is "disremembering".  The older, black "semi-apo" Miya copy used to be clearly stated as being 500mm in the specs; just like the Miyas.  They have been out for quite a few years and I doubt there's been any changes since the focuser upgrade from O rings to plastic compression rings.  

 

Don't know why APM removed the focal length spec in their listing now; they used to show it.  They've certainly made it clear that the new model is 550mm...

 

Enjoy your BT; despite it not being APM's "latest and greatest", it still gives great views and is a real step up from a typical 25x100 bino in quality and viewing comfort.  

 

Rich



#23 junomike

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 04:54 PM

Here's an Ad from a few years back stating the F/L as 500mm.



#24 Mike G.

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:12 PM

Well, the photo in that ad is slightly different in that there are no pivot points for a fork mount on the new ones. But I'll be going back to Saarbrücken in November for work and I'll ask Markus for the history of this particular bino. But 500 or 550, I'm very happy with them. amazing views!!



#25 junomike

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:40 PM

The first pic of that Ad is incorrect as there are no pivot points on them at all.  Notice in the other pics of the same Ad that the Binocular is attached via a Dovetail.

Also in Bills pic in post #17 there's no Pivot's either.




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