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Astro-Physics 10" Mak-Cass

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#126 dscarpa

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 06:12 PM

 It's 1/8 wave or better. It's an odd choice of a FL for a mak if it's your only version. IM had both for their 7". They also show a Santel 9" F13 with 27% CO for $3,850 which is quite reasonable on the site but it's only 1/6-1/7 wave. I'd peg my C9.25 at 1/6 wave and while a very nice scope the optics clearly aren't as good as my IM715D. David


Edited by dscarpa, 05 December 2018 - 06:20 PM.


#127 Stopforths

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 09:07 PM

Being an owner of a 7" MN 76 and an 8" f/10 M809, I agree. this size is a sweet spot in performance vs size

Interested in how they compare ie does the mn have an edge or the 8 inch mak cass??.  I have the 1008 which is a beefed up version of the 8009 also f10



#128 Peter Natscher

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 10:13 PM

The first series 10" A-P Mak-Cass (2000-2001) weighs 34lbs., a lot heavier than the 160EDF.  There's much more glass in the Mak.  You'll never get more than 0.6 degree field of view with it due to its f/14.6 focal ratio.  It's a specialized telescope for narrow field observing.

 

10" AP verses 160mm

Pros

more light gathering,

more resolution

same optical quality

more focal length for planetary imaging and visual use.

Shorter, maybe more portable?

Refractor like views 

Less moment arm on mount.

Much less expensive than a 10" APO

 

Cons

less fov for imaging and visual use. Longer exposures of DSO objects might be required, or more images stacked.

Not a refractor?



#129 chuckscap

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 09:26 AM

I wish Roland made a 7 or 8-inch version. In that size the portability advantage of an 8” Mak (including the smaller mount needed) over a 6 or 7-inch apo really comes into play.

 

And an 8-inch high quality AP Mak would beat a 6” Apo on the moon and planets and any deep sky objects that fit in the field.

 

Bob

If you want a 7" version buy a TEC 7 Mak.   Optics built by the same person I believe, Yuri, that made them for the first round of AP 10" Maks.    They're around used, I bought one.  They're very well built and finished at f/15 have a 25% CO and the quartz optics are simply amazing. They're not cheap but they're not $22,000 either ..That being said I've always lusted after an AP 10" Mak  .... :)



#130 TG

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 12:02 PM

It amazes me to think a new run A-P Mak would cost more than all of my 6 scopes combined, which include an A-P, a Takahashi, a TEC, an I-M and a Zambuto!

#131 bobhen

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 12:06 PM

If you want a 7" version buy a TEC 7 Mak.   Optics built by the same person I believe, Yuri, that made them for the first round of AP 10" Maks.    They're around used, I bought one.  They're very well built and finished at f/15 have a 25% CO and the quartz optics are simply amazing. They're not cheap but they're not $22,000 either ..That being said I've always lusted after an AP 10" Mak  .... smile.gif

When I downsized (due to age) from my AP 6-inch refractor, I looked at 7 to 8-inch Maks but was not overly impressed with what manufacturers did to address cooling and acclimation, which I need here in PA.

 

Along with AP’s superb optics, Roland’s designs appear to address cooling and thermal stability more seriously.

 

I eventually purchased a Mewlon 210, which has really nice optics, easily more contrast and sharpness than any SCT that I have owned. But even with the Mewlon’s open tube, I installed 4 fans on the back plate to address cooling and remove heat plumes as temperatures fall during the night. The Mewlon 210 was also available, light, and reasonably affordable.

 

Would I rather have an Astro-Physics 7 or 8-inch Mak with proper cooling and thermal stability designed in and those superb AP optics – you bet.

 

Bob


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#132 JohnH

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 01:09 PM

Being an owner of a 7" MN 76 and an 8" f/10 M809, I agree. this size is a sweet spot in performance vs size

However, I am still going to build a number of 10 1/2 and 11" ones. Weight be dam**d.



#133 Gleason

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 02:15 PM

I found a great quote from Jay Reynolds Freeman regarding the cost of the AP 10" when it was $10K in 2000: "Persons with a lower budget limit, or whose concern is performance per dollar, should not consider this instrument."  


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#134 chakel

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 02:34 PM

AM has a AP 10" for sale now ($22k)



#135 TG

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:03 PM

AM has a AP 10" for sale now ($22k)

That's the RH305 astrograph, not the Mak.


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#136 sink45ny

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:06 PM

AM has a AP 10" for sale now ($22k)

I searched and could not find it. What category is it under?



#137 avid_dk

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 03:07 PM

I searched and could not find it. What category is it under?

Astrographs



#138 Joe Bergeron

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:33 PM

My last words may be “I should have somehow bought that AP 10” Mak when they offered it to me.”
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#139 Heywood

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:48 PM

Unless you got on the notification list in 1999 or EARLY 2000, you can forget the AP 10" Mak-Cass.  You will never get notified.  Never.

 

I got on the list in mid-2001, and I have given up hope.  After seventeen years, I have given up hope.

 

Heywood


Edited by Heywood, 06 December 2018 - 06:48 PM.


#140 luxo II

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:26 AM

Unless you got on the notification list in 1999 or EARLY 2000, you can forget the AP 10" Mak-Cass.  You will never get notified.  Never.

 

I got on the list in mid-2001, and I have given up hope.  

 

Don't give up hope. If you want one, watch AM and be ready to pounce.

 

I have collected two rare big maks because the first owners are now too frail to manage them, and decided the time had come to sell. And I have 10, maybe 15 years before I too will either sell them or pass them on to my son if he is interested.

 

By way of example, Santel produced just 28 of their MK91 maks. These clearly were a "labour of love" not a serious business proposition - and the AP 10" maks are no different. Now, after Santel folded, apart from mine I know of just 3 others in regular use. What happened to the rest I have no idea.

 

A similar pattern will happen with the AP 10" maks, too - and those who signed up are now 20 years older.

 

- most will pay and receive their scope but will have to sell within a few years due to ill-health; and

- a few will be sold as part of a deceased estate.

 

After the production run finishes, over the next 10 years perhaps 10% will come up for resale. But 80-90% of these scopes will vanish, never to be seen again.

 

FWIW regarding the comparisons with premium big refractors, the really tough nut is the Dawes criterion for double stars - where 80X per inch of aperture may be required to split close doubles of unequal magnitudes. Few modern refractors can do this, and some of the high-end maks do - my MK91 does, as does an Intel 715D that a good friend has. My guess is the AP 10" maks will achieve this, also.

 

Beyond 7" aperture though, the big refractors have a problem with chromatic aberrations laterally and longitudinally, whereas the big maks do not, and in this respect I suspect the refractors are frankly overrated.

 

Showing Phobos and Deimos with Mars in the field is interesting but my MK91 can do that, it is hard but I don't read that as a really tough test - a good f/7 8" Newtonian will do likewise.

 

Ultimately the big premium maks are astronomical unicorns ...

- many have heard of them,
- some have actually seen one,
- a lucky few have had the chance to look through one,
- a few understand what these beasties are capable of, and
- a very privileged few actually own one.


Edited by luxo II, 07 December 2018 - 09:13 AM.


#141 JohnH

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:27 PM

As for seeing people very seldom have a chance to look through big Maksutov I brought my 8 inch one to Table Mountain a number of times and to Mt. Kobau in British Columbia

#142 dscarpa

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:34 PM

 With the demise of IM am I the only one seeing an opening in the premium 1/8 wave or better mak market which at this time seems limited to the not really available AP10, Questar and the Altiers all F10? David


Edited by dscarpa, 07 December 2018 - 01:56 PM.


#143 Gleason

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:21 PM

Don't give up hope. If you want one, watch AM and be ready to pounce.

 

I have collected two rare big maks because the first owners are now too frail to manage them, and decided the time had come to sell. And I have 10, maybe 15 years before I too will either sell them or pass them on to my son if he is interested.

 

By way of example, Santel produced just 28 of their MK91 maks. These clearly were a "labour of love" not a serious business proposition - and the AP 10" maks are no different. Now, after Santel folded, apart from mine I know of just 3 others in regular use. What happened to the rest I have no idea.

 

A similar pattern will happen with the AP 10" maks, too - and those who signed up are now 20 years older.

 

- most will pay and receive their scope but will have to sell within a few years due to ill-health; and

- a few will be sold as part of a deceased estate.

 

After the production run finishes, over the next 10 years perhaps 10% will come up for resale. But 80-90% of these scopes will vanish, never to be seen again.

 

FWIW regarding the comparisons with premium big refractors, the really tough nut is the Dawes criterion for double stars - where 80X per inch of aperture may be required to split close doubles of unequal magnitudes. Few modern refractors can do this, and some of the high-end maks do - my MK91 does, as does an Intel 715D that a good friend has. My guess is the AP 10" maks will achieve this, also.

 

Beyond 7" aperture though, the big refractors have a problem with chromatic aberrations laterally and longitudinally, whereas the big maks do not, and in this respect I suspect the refractors are frankly overrated.

 

Showing Phobos and Deimos with Mars in the field is interesting but my MK91 can do that, it is hard but I don't read that as a really tough test - a good f/7 8" Newtonian will do likewise.

 

Ultimately the big premium maks are astronomical unicorns ...

- many have heard of them,
- some have actually seen one,
- a lucky few have had the chance to look through one,
- a few understand what these beasties are capable of, and
- a very privileged few actually own one.

- most will pay and receive their scope but will have to sell within a few years due to ill-health; and

- a few will be sold as part of a deceased estate.

 

Really? Sad if true.   We are seeing a lot of high end AP refractors up for sale recently. 



#144 payner

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:10 PM

Don't give up hope. If you want one, watch AM and be ready to pounce.

 

I have collected two rare big maks because the first owners are now too frail to manage them, and decided the time had come to sell. And I have 10, maybe 15 years before I too will either sell them or pass them on to my son if he is interested.

I had my observing preference reasons for offering the Santel MK91 for sale; rest assured you had the opportunity to buy the telescope not because of my rumored frailty.  I replaced the telescope with the Takahashi Mewlon 250CRS, and it is a larger, comparatively awkward, OTA to mount than the MK91, which I consider(ed) an easy OTA to mount.  Glad you are appreciating its fine optics.

 

Randy


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#145 luxo II

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:00 AM

Oh well done, Randy ! My bad...

 

My other mak, however... that was indeed the case.


Edited by luxo II, 08 December 2018 - 05:01 AM.


#146 Paul G

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 02:58 PM

If you want a 7" version buy a TEC 7 Mak.   Optics built by the same person I believe, Yuri, that made them for the first round of AP 10" Maks.    They're around used, I bought one.  They're very well built and finished at f/15 have a 25% CO and the quartz optics are simply amazing. They're not cheap but they're not $22,000 either ..That being said I've always lusted after an AP 10" Mak  .... smile.gif

That is incorrect, Yuri did not make the AP mak optics. They were designed and figured by Valery Derushyn of Aries Optics in the Ukraine. Roland further aspherized an already heavily aspherized primary to address 5th order aberrations. Aries also did the ion beam figuring for RCOS IIRC.

 

http://www.company7....ks/250f146.html

 

https://rcopticalsys...on_milling.html


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#147 chuckscap

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:02 PM

I had my observing preference reasons for offering the Santel MK91 for sale; rest assured you had the opportunity to buy the telescope not because of my rumored frailty.  I replaced the telescope with the Takahashi Mewlon 250CRS, and it is a larger, comparatively awkward, OTA to mount than the MK91, which I consider(ed) an easy OTA to mount.  Glad you are appreciating its fine optics.

 

Randy

 

So how do you like your Mewlon 250 CRS?



#148 chuckscap

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 03:03 PM

That is incorrect, Yuri did not make the AP mak optics. They were designed and figured by Valery Derushyn of Aries Optics in the Ukraine. Roland further aspherized an already heavily aspherized primary to address 5th order aberrations. Aries also did the ion beam figuring for RCOS IIRC.

 

http://www.company7....ks/250f146.html

 

https://rcopticalsys...on_milling.html

 

Thanks for the correction


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#149 MDRP

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 10:11 PM

Car enthusiasts are often broken-down into three groups: waxers, tuners, and racers. Many contributors to this topic seem to be "tuners," those most interested in tweeking performance, testing, and comparing. I have a question for the "racers," those more engaged in observing. Much has been said about the prowess of Mak-Cass scopes for planets, moon, and double stars, but what about superior views of deep sky objects with large aperture MC scopes, many examples of which can benefit from powers above 100x? Globulars, many open clusters, and most galaxies and planetaries fall into this category. Any good observing reports of the unique performance of M-C scopes? Flat field, coma-free, color-free, high contrast optics must have their rewards.   

 

How portable is the AP 10" MC? It weighs about 35 lbs, has an about 11" tube, and is only 29.5" long without dewcap. Thus, it's mount-friendly. AP says it can be mounted on a Mach I, their smallest mount. What about a DM-6 alt/az set up that disposes of counterweights? A 10" grab-and-go MC? Might do fine except when very high powers are desired. What about transport of Slowmax to dark sites in a padded bag instead of its big, rigid case? The padded bag (and DM-6 mount) has proved excellent for my AP 180mm Fastmax. 

 

Thoughts are invited, especially by owner/users of big aperture MC scopes. 



#150 bobhen

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 08:41 AM

Car enthusiasts are often broken-down into three groups: waxers, tuners, and racers. Many contributors to this topic seem to be "tuners," those most interested in tweeking performance, testing, and comparing. I have a question for the "racers," those more engaged in observing. Much has been said about the prowess of Mak-Cass scopes for planets, moon, and double stars, but what about superior views of deep sky objects with large aperture MC scopes, many examples of which can benefit from powers above 100x? Globulars, many open clusters, and most galaxies and planetaries fall into this category. Any good observing reports of the unique performance of M-C scopes? Flat field, coma-free, color-free, high contrast optics must have their rewards.   

 

How portable is the AP 10" MC? It weighs about 35 lbs, has an about 11" tube, and is only 29.5" long without dewcap. Thus, it's mount-friendly. AP says it can be mounted on a Mach I, their smallest mount. What about a DM-6 alt/az set up that disposes of counterweights? A 10" grab-and-go MC? Might do fine except when very high powers are desired. What about transport of Slowmax to dark sites in a padded bag instead of its big, rigid case? The padded bag (and DM-6 mount) has proved excellent for my AP 180mm Fastmax. 

 

Thoughts are invited, especially by owner/users of big aperture MC scopes. 

 

HERE is a review by Ed Ting

 

HERE is a review by Jay Freeman

 

I don't think an alt/az mount would be the best choice (unless motorized) for an AP 10" Mak. You want to take advantage of the Mak's high power capability and that could be somewhat frustrating with an alt/az mount. I think the Losmandy G11 might be a less costly alternative to AP's Mach 1.

 

Bob




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