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FIRE CAPTURE - need imaging parameters

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#1 ASTROTRUCK

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 07:25 PM

tried using fire capture to take advantage of its " flat " ability.

 

no matter what numbers i used for capture the image is gray garbage - i have very good images using ic capture but wish to do flats as in fire capture - my images in fire capture  are pure gray garbage even just for full disk.

 

using 100mm refractor f9 with .5 reducer imaging source mono dmk 41

using ic i get very clear black white  - fire capture gray mess garbage

 

what numbers do you use as ms, gamma & gain - what are you fire guys using at least for full disk?

 

HELP thanks

 

 



#2 Michael Harris

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:02 PM

Different camera, but I use the default gamma and gain, and adjust exposure time until the live histogram peaks at about 75%. This is usually around 0.8 to 1 ms exposure time. My cam, the ZWO ASI 120MM, does much better with 2x2 binning. In firecapture I had to learn to set the correct exposure Range first, which allows access to the above values. I found this by clicking on the exposure time range display and choosing "Solar" as the option. I am just a beginner but so far it is working for me.



#3 ASTROTRUCK

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:19 PM

not sure how you selected decimal 8 but my fire capture starts at 1.000 goes to 1.00ms round numbers - sounds stupid but thats the program.

in exposure time highlited the time # to get to the selection parameter but then get another weird set of numbers.

 

googled for tutorials some are missing & he aint the best tutor - hope he is not any ones professor.

 

did you find any good tutorial ?

 

thanks



#4 icecreamcat

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 10:33 PM

I have the same problem with fire capture, the image is clearly grey and over casted unlike my default pylon software which shows crispy contrast..  You cannot adjust any "real" camera settings in fire capture.  

 

  You may want to test out genika, if it will run on your pc.  But it doesnt run on my windows 10 machine, application just doesnt launch.   It may be worth the $100 it cost if it works out for you in the long run!

 

But unfortunately for me, if i cannot test it i cannot justify buying it.

 

 

www.genicapture.com



#5 icecreamcat

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 10:37 PM

One of the problems with fire capture is everything is maxed out by default it seems.   This becomes an instantaneous problem if you have a machine that isnt dedicated to video capture, like SSD drives, and 8+gigs of ram.

The frame buffer, and 16bit raw mode' is very demanding, especially if your not getting the proper power consumption from your usb or gige ports, or correct bandwidth settings for data streaming and write caching.

 

The software gain feature is totally different from hardware gain, and black level is totally separate entity compared to gamma.

 

Exposure and hardware gain must be set properly for the frame rate you are using as well, and the resolution.  Lower resolution(roi) has much greater sensitivity than full image size.

 

 

The third problem, is it is quite picky about what hardware driver you have installed! You may find yourself downgrading just to get things running properly without a crash.



#6 TorstenEdelmann

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:42 PM

Just a couple of notes:

 

>>You cannot adjust any "real" camera settings in fire capture.

I'd happy getting some more details and insights on these generally claims. Did you try all camera interfaces FC is supporting or did it happen just to one particular camera ? 

 

>>The software gain feature is totally different from hardware gain, and black level is totally separate entity compared to gamma.

What would you expect ? Each of these things is a completely different camera control doing different things.

 

>>The frame buffer, and 16bit raw mode' is very demanding

What are your CPU usage numbers here and what is you computer spec 

 

>>Lower resolution(roi) has much greater sensitivity than full image size.

First of all ROI has nothing to do with resolution. Using a smaller image size (which is what ROI does) doesn't reduce your resolution. Second for which camera you get a higher sensitivity when using a smaller image size ? Such a behaviour would be new to me...

 

Torsten


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#7 TorstenEdelmann

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:43 PM

he aint the best tutor - hope he is not any ones professor.

 

No, I'm not but thanks for beeing worried wink.gif

 

Torsten


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#8 icecreamcat

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:27 AM

Do not misunderstand here, firecapture is a great program for the stuff it works with. I have seen thousands of images uploaded with it so I know it has a strong user base.   The problem is just very unique for my particular camera it seems. 

 

Firecapture has a great design and is great user interface, I have all positive thoughts about it.  My situation is only unique to my hardware I have concluded.  It is constantly being updated as well, which is amazing for not costing anything!  I am very pleased for what you have accomplished.

 

 

My setup is as follows.

 

I7 processor, 32 gigs of ddr4 ram, 1 terabyte ssd drive. windows 10.   Gigabit ethernet, basler 1300-30gm ccd - monochrome.

 

when I select 640x480 roi the frame rate is so much higher that the exposure level becomes exponentially brighter than what is visibly apparent at full frame.  This has happened with every camera I have owned in the past, with every piece of software I have used, including sharp cap and fly cap, the pylon viewer app, and IDS capture app..  Camera sensitivity is dependent on frame rate,

 

how can you pull more than 30 frames per second out of a resolution that is only rated at 30 frames per second for its fastest exposure rate??   The brightness of the image is factored for that very specific exposure time (without gain). 1296x966 in my instance

 

It took me three days worth of tinkering with the firecapture .ini file just to get a solid 600 frame buffer set into my ram for a 31fps capture rate..  I got the program somewhat stable right now but the second I turn on 16bit, it becomes instantly frozen and bogs down to 1fps.   I can send you my camera backup file if you wish... I have spoken to you with this situation through email   <--- Apollo - - - - -   I have already sent you my log files and you replied that you did not know what the particular error meant.

 

 

It is not a big deal,  free software is free software.   This is a niche hobby and unless we focus on the hardware that everyone already knows works without a hitch then there will always be a hiccup or two down the road..

 

  I still have problems with the standard basler pylon capture software. If GIGE NETWORK bandwidth settings (packet size, buffer size, transport layer delay, frame delay, reservation etc.)   are not  correct (there is no autodetect) you get immediate issues.

 

 

As I said, I am having the same problem with genika,  I cannot even get the app to start up on my pc.  I bought the computer in january of 2017, so It is basically new.   I could not even imagine how difficult setting my  equipment up on an I9 processor with 12 cores would be.    ($4000 computer....)

 

It is just the nature of windows 10 and 3rd party capture devices.    You either have a piece of hardware that works immediately every time, or you do not.   64bit driver resource and runtime files are still very flawed.  

 

I just shrug it off, and eventually ill figure out a workaround or just buy a new camera that many many people have tested with great success and have zero issue with..      (anything below windows 10 is a major risk once attached to an internet)

 

 

(it is not just firecapture I am having problems with either, a-lot of the stacking software  also  meticulously tedious for loading video files in windows 10)   Things need to be upgraded to .mp4 format to get rid of all the bandwidth and memory issues.  Raw format is great  but with a 1920x1080 resolution we are just creating memory/bandwidth errors due to the insane file sizes.  Not many people in the astrofield with 256gigs of system ram and 10 terabytes of disposable space....


Edited by icecreamcat, 18 September 2017 - 12:32 AM.


#9 icecreamcat

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 12:41 AM

One last note, if i change something in the pylon application all the settings are reset in firecapture. So it is pulling the data from the pylon profile that was used in the previous pylon session.  If it were not for me saving all my camera sessions in various different test instances I would of never got firecapture to display an image after much trial and error!

 

The most important parts of the pylon software to getting my camera to function in firecapture are in these boxes.  It is VERY strict, and 1 value will just crash the whole program and shut down the camera.

 

Transport layer, and stream parameters.

pylon transport.PNG

pylon stream parameter.PNG

 

 


Edited by icecreamcat, 18 September 2017 - 12:48 AM.


#10 TorstenEdelmann

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:10 AM

Thanks for the details. The Basler interface isn't much used in FC and there are no additional settings in FC to tweak GigE bandwidth and transmission. Thatswhy I understand that it might be very difficult to get it working if the bandwidth isn't sufficient out of the box.

 

I really wonder why you're getting bandwidth issues on such a fast computer especially as the 1300-30gm isn't an extremely  fast camera. Did you check your ethernet adapter settings if it has set jumbo frames/packets as given in the screenshots here: https://blog.codingh...f-jumbo-frames/

 

Torsten


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#11 ASTROTRUCK

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Posted 16 August 2020 - 03:36 PM

everything above convinces me to stick with ic capture & followup post processing - never seen so many queries for ic capture - just post process it -

fire capture must be good if so many good images show up using it - but go figure it out.




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