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Druckmuller's 2017 Page is UP!

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#1 Mad MikeE

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:14 PM

http://www.zam.fme.v...017u/0-info.htm

 

Now we all have our Gold Standard to work / check against bigshock.gif


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#2 dghundt

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 06:03 PM

Is his software?

 

Frankly if he wants to play by himself, so be it.

 

 

My think big thank you and attention goes to Jerry, Fred Espanek, Alan Dyer, and all you wonderful CNers who encouraged and helped me with my eclipse experience.


Edited by dghundt, 28 September 2017 - 09:34 AM.

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#3 SteveRosenow

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 11:57 PM

To my knowledge, yes, the processing software Druckmuller uses, is his own.

I wish there were publicly accessible versions of it, or a similar software package, just for eclipse corona processing. That way it could make our jobs *MUCH* easier in the future for 2024 and 2045!



#4 avdhoeven

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:38 AM

To my knowledge, yes, the processing software Druckmuller uses, is his own.

I wish there were publicly accessible versions of it, or a similar software package, just for eclipse corona processing. That way it could make our jobs *MUCH* easier in the future for 2024 and 2045!

I contacted him to ask about this. The only answer you get that the software is too complex. I really regret that to be honest. His results are really superb, but if this knowledge isn't shared anywhere in the future someday it will be gone. I really hope somebody stands up some time that can somehow replicate this results and create something for amateur photographers worldwide.


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#5 REC

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 09:59 AM

http://www.zam.fme.v...017u/0-info.htm

 

Now we all have our Gold Standard to work / check against bigshock.gif

That is just freaking amazing! After looking at something like that, i have a hard time rememberig what it looked like in my binoculars?? The moon was definitely just black, not like this image. I suspect that an HDR image with many exposures will be better than the human eye can see with.bow.gif



#6 SteveRosenow

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 10:42 PM

 

To my knowledge, yes, the processing software Druckmuller uses, is his own.

I wish there were publicly accessible versions of it, or a similar software package, just for eclipse corona processing. That way it could make our jobs *MUCH* easier in the future for 2024 and 2045!

I contacted him to ask about this. The only answer you get that the software is too complex. I really regret that to be honest. His results are really superb, but if this knowledge isn't shared anywhere in the future someday it will be gone. I really hope somebody stands up some time that can somehow replicate this results and create something for amateur photographers worldwide.

 

I would have to agree with your position, and really believe the astronomy community could benefit immensely from it.

In some ways I can see his point of view as being a proprietary mindset, where only he could be able to produce those sort of stunning images. That way he could hold the 'patent' if you will, on that type of eclipse photograph. However, I have to disagree with his argument about it being 'too complex'. If the learning curve of programs such as PixInsight could be overcome (which I understand, is quite a steep curve), then processing solar corona images with publicly available programs similar to what Druckmuller uses, could be just as easily overcome.



#7 PI_CO100

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 02:01 AM

Is his software?

 

Frankly if he wants to play by himself, so be it.

 

 

My think big thank you and attention goes to Jerry, Fred Espanek, Alan Dyer, and all you wonderful CNers who encouraged and helped me with my eclipse experience.

I agree 100% with you!

 

On the one side, hundreds of photographers (me included) donate their pictures to Eclipse MegaMovie; people like Jerry L who spends a lot of time replying to CNers queries. On the other...

 

These guys are employed by astronomy departments supported by taxpayers. I am not a taxpayer in one of their countries but if I was I would give some feedback to their bosses.

 

I know who I admire. But if they shared their software and methods they would win me back,

 

Piero



#8 SKYGZR

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 03:08 PM

Since it's his own software, seems he's allowed to withhold it, not share it, and keep it private. He would also be within his rights, should he decide to market it, charge a fee.

 

Personally, if I could write such code, it would be a tough decision to keep it private, or market it. Seems he's made that decision.



#9 SteveRosenow

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 10:44 PM

Since it's his own software, seems he's allowed to withhold it, not share it, and keep it private. He would also be within his rights, should he decide to market it, charge a fee.

 

Personally, if I could write such code, it would be a tough decision to keep it private, or market it. Seems he's made that decision.

I think there may be a bit of misreading what some of us are saying.

We aren't saying Druckmuller doesn't have the right to withhold his own software. Of course he has every right to, and nobody here in this thread has implied that.

What we are saying, is that it is a disservice to the astronomy community and those of us who contribute to citizen science (as I myself did with the Eclipse Megamovie project).  I understand Druckmuller's daughter has written a thesis and has worked with her father in some eclipse photographic expeditions, but the thesis doesn't go into detail how the filters work, and how they are applied. All that is written is a lot of math that I dare say even the most hardiest amateur astronomer wouldn't understand (and if they did, I'd bow to their presence as math of any kind isn't a strong suit! lol.gif  )

Basically what it boils down to, is that now, with the advent of DSLRs in astrophotography and with a greater percentage of the public now capable of photographing total eclipses than anytime before, (and with 2019 and 2024 coming up fast upon us), it would be ideal for someone in the astronomy community to develop some sort of program capable of what Druckmuller himself produces. 

I would argue even greater, the point that if people can spend north of $200USD on an astrophotography-based image capture/processing program (PixInsight, MaximDL, etc), that there would be a significant percentage of imagers out there - myself included - who might be inclined to dole out some money to achieve similar results to what Druckmuller accomplishes. That argument is even greater supported by the fact that programs like MaximDL and PixInsight have arguably quite steep learning curves (compared to programs like Deep Sky Stacker, Photoshop, etc), which means that something like the programs Druckmuller uses could just as easily be applied to the amateur astronomer in a similar manner

It would beat by far, having to nearly give up on processing, or worse, the very likelihood that - as Andre van der Hoeven wisely stated above:

 

 

if this knowledge isn't shared anywhere in the future someday it will be gone.



#10 PI_CO100

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 03:29 AM

Since it's his own software, seems he's allowed to withhold it, not share it, and keep it private. He would also be within his rights, should he decide to market it, charge a fee.

 

Personally, if I could write such code, it would be a tough decision to keep it private, or market it. Seems he's made that decision.

I am in full employment in the financial services and if I devised a software application related to financial services even in my own time my employer could claim the intellectual property of it. But I do not really know what are the circumstances around the software in discussion and I am not claiming the owner has an obligation to publish it.

 

I am sure that there are many of us who have been inspired by his pictures. So I do not want to underplay his merits and incredible skills!

 

If this software was made public though I am sure that it will promote more interest, knowledge and understanding of astronomy. It feels to me that those who undertake a professional career in academia have a greater duty to promote understanding of science in the community.

 

On my part I am happy to have contributed my pictures to the Eclipse Megamovie and given a talk to my astronomy club.



#11 whwang

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:29 AM

I provided my processing programs to those who asked me for it, and I am a fan of sharing.  However, I would like to defend Druckmuller a little bit.

 

Think about it.  If it takes him a month to complete the processing using his own program with his years of experience, how long it will take for other people to use his program to do the same processing?  I can totally believe it is so complicated that it will take him lot of time to explain his workflow and how the program works.  Also, the program may work, but it may have a user interface that only he can understand.  I myself wrote programs like that.  Druckmuller is a good mathematician, but not necessarily a good programer, or a good user interface builder, right?  It's his judgement that it will take him too much effort to "teach" others using his program.  His job may not allow him to spend this much time.  As a scientist myself, I think I can understand that.

 

There is really no need to complain about this.  We can admire his achievement, and move on and try improving our own processing skills.

 

Cheers,

Wei-Hao

 

ps, I vaguely remember he wrote a paper to explain the algorithm.  Is that right?


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#12 dan_hm

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:55 AM

I was thinking along the lines of what Wei-Hao is saying.  While I would like to have a chance to put my images through Druckmuller's software, he probably has good reasons for not releasing it to the public.  When people pay for a software they usually (and rightfully) expect lifetime support which means writing documentation, releasing patches and updates, and responding to users' questions on a regular basis.  That could well be a full-time commitment on Druckmuller's part, being that he is one of the most famous eclipse photographers and his software would get a ton of attention.  The interface is also a good point.  It's likely that the program is catered exactly to the way that he processes his data, and anyone who didn't image the eclipse with those exact techniques will probably not be able to navigate it.  That could mean redesigning it to be appropriate for more general use, again a big time commitment.



#13 pachacoti

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 03:28 PM

Druckmüller did publish several papers describing his technique in processing corona images. Two of them can be downloaded at \url{http://adsabs.harvar...CoSka..36..131D} and \url{http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009ApJ...706.1605D}. I did discuss with my colleagues about writing out a code based on the method in his papers, but never manage to do so because there's no much spare time beyond research. I think his method has three main components -- (1) registration on corona details, (2) HDR, and (3) extraction of fine structures. The last one actually can be found available in SolarSoftWare IDL.


Edited by pachacoti, 01 October 2017 - 03:30 PM.

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#14 rainycityastro

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 12:51 AM

Druckmuller is a master for sure.
But I have seen quite a few images that approach his images, perhaps even exceed them THIS time all using fairly conventional techniques.

#15 SteveRosenow

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:56 AM

Druckmüller did publish several papers describing his technique in processing corona images. Two of them can be downloaded at \url{http://adsabs.harvar...CoSka..36..131D} and \url{http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009ApJ...706.1605D}. I did discuss with my colleagues about writing out a code based on the method in his papers, but never manage to do so because there's no much spare time beyond research. I think his method has three main components -- (1) registration on corona details, (2) HDR, and (3) extraction of fine structures. The last one actually can be found available in SolarSoftWare IDL.

The second link does not work.



#16 jeff.bottman

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:11 PM

I think it's important to recognize that although the image is technically excellent at showing fine structure, it is not necessarily a universally agreed-upon aesthetic pinnacle.  Some might prefer an image that is closer to the reality we experienced with our eyes.  I have my own image hanging in our living room that I acturally prefer even though it's not as perfectly detailed, but it looks more real to me (and it's mine of course smile.gif ).

 

I guess I'm just saying that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' ...


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#17 rainycityastro

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 02:24 PM

Setting aside subjective considerations such as aesthetics and evaluating purely on metrics such as depth of image, resolution of fine detail etc. several images come close to and even exceed Druckmuller this time. Most have been processed using standard tools such as photoshop or Pixinsight. 


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#18 dghundt

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 03:04 PM

I think it's important to recognize that although the image is technically excellent at showing fine structure, it is not necessarily a universally agreed-upon aesthetic pinnacle. Some might prefer an image that is closer to the reality we experienced with our eyes. I have my own image hanging in our living room that I acturally prefer even though it's not as perfectly detailed, but it looks more real to me (and it's mine of course smile.gif ).

I guess I'm just saying that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' ...


Who printed your image?
Media?

#19 jeff.bottman

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 05:43 PM

 

I think it's important to recognize that although the image is technically excellent at showing fine structure, it is not necessarily a universally agreed-upon aesthetic pinnacle. Some might prefer an image that is closer to the reality we experienced with our eyes. I have my own image hanging in our living room that I acturally prefer even though it's not as perfectly detailed, but it looks more real to me (and it's mine of course smile.gif ).

I guess I'm just saying that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' ...


Who printed your image?
Media?

 

I used a very good local outfit, Northwest Fine Art Printing (https://www.nwfineartprinting.com).  Mine is an 18 x 27 white satin metal print in a float frame.  The dynamic range seems greater with this process than for a normal paper print.  Note that the background is brilliant white paint, not raw aluminum, which is an option but I expect would look kind of cheesy.


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#20 pachacoti

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:28 PM

 

Druckmüller did publish several papers describing his technique in processing corona images. Two of them can be downloaded at \url{http://adsabs.harvar...CoSka..36..131D} and \url{http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009ApJ...706.1605D}. I did discuss with my colleagues about writing out a code based on the method in his papers, but never manage to do so because there's no much spare time beyond research. I think his method has three main components -- (1) registration on corona details, (2) HDR, and (3) extraction of fine structures. The last one actually can be found available in SolarSoftWare IDL.

The second link does not work.

 

I tried to edit it but it doesn't work. Anyway, just copy the link to your browser and it should work. 



#21 SteveRosenow

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:45 PM

 

 

Druckmüller did publish several papers describing his technique in processing corona images. Two of them can be downloaded at \url{http://adsabs.harvar...CoSka..36..131D} and \url{http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009ApJ...706.1605D}. I did discuss with my colleagues about writing out a code based on the method in his papers, but never manage to do so because there's no much spare time beyond research. I think his method has three main components -- (1) registration on corona details, (2) HDR, and (3) extraction of fine structures. The last one actually can be found available in SolarSoftWare IDL.

The second link does not work.

 

I tried to edit it but it doesn't work. Anyway, just copy the link to your browser and it should work. 

 

It doesn't work because the forum software truncates the link and doesn't display it in its entirety.

Try posting the second link as a separate post.



#22 whwang

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 11:39 PM

Just select, copy, and paste the second link to your browser web address and push enter.  It works.



#23 Ejohn88

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 07:38 AM

Apart from Druckmuller, virtually every composite I've seen was processed with commercial software like Photomatix or Photoshop.  Resultant images can be excellent, but there are inevitable similarities and limitations.

 

Here's a recent image created with code I wrote.  I wouldn't call it better than pics made with commercial tools, and it's obviously inferior to Druckmuller, but the point is it has a different "look" from a Photomatix image, for example. There are no doubt many savvy coders on this forum who could produce better and genuinely unique results.

Attached Files


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#24 REC

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:35 PM

Apart from Druckmuller, virtually every composite I've seen was processed with commercial software like Photomatix or Photoshop.  Resultant images can be excellent, but there are inevitable similarities and limitations.

 

Here's a recent image created with code I wrote.  I wouldn't call it better than pics made with commercial tools, and it's obviously inferior to Druckmuller, but the point is it has a different "look" from a Photomatix image, for example. There are no doubt many savvy coders on this forum who could produce better and genuinely unique results.

Stunning! The orientation is just what it looked like in my bino's if I remember correctly.



#25 RutileQ

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 01:55 PM

I've noticed a pronounced taupe color in in center of all the HDR images I've seen from this eclipse, including my own, and in Druckmüller's images also, and it seems much more evident in his 2017 images.  I've been wondering if this is from   forward scattering aerosols, especially in the western U.S. with the fire smoke in the air, and thus more prominent in this years eclipse photos.  




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