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How do you use your 4.7mm SX-Ethos?

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#1 JoshH

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 07:34 PM

While at Okie-Tex I borrowed one for the night from the Televue Rep, I've always wanted to try one. I tried it in my 16" F4.5 dob with Paracorr, but it was just way too much magnification for the seeing that night, its about 450x.

 

My friend has a Televue 101, which gave a much more reasonable 115x, just under 1 deg AFOV. The view of the double cluster was amazing, talk about a spacewalk feeling, if I put my hands around my eyes to block any outside light and it was truly like floating in space, I could not see the edge of the FOV. My friend said this view was the closest thing he has ever seen to using binoviewers, which I've never been able to enjoy because I'm blind in one eye. 

 

The problem we ran into was there aren't many objects that are bright enough to really enjoy at that magnification in a small scope, even in dark skies, and we had some of the best that night. So I'm curious, those who own this eyepiece or or even the 3.7mm, how do you use yours? I can see how this eyepiece would be amazing on the moon in any telescope, but other than a few bright objects I don't see it getting much use, but maybe I'm missing something. There are those rare nights when the seeing is good and I use that much power on my dob, but usually they are small objects, but I can see how the extra FOV would be nice even if the object doesn't fill it. 


Edited by JoshH, 22 October 2017 - 09:41 PM.


#2 havasman

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 08:30 PM

I really like the 4.7 Ethos. In the AT115EDT I use it for lunar and for globs and sometimes it is the only ep I even take out for a driveway session. In the Starmaster I use it for close inspection of galaxy clusters and galactic details mostly. That is its most frequent use for me and the reason I like it so much. For that it sees focuser time almost every dark site session. It is not unusual for the 13 Ethos to 8 Delos to 4.7 Ethos progression to dominate the focuser for long periods.

I hardly ever use it in the refractor for white light solar.



#3 GeneT

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:28 PM

I rarely use mine on a 12.5 inch F5 Portaball. On nights of excellent seeing, if is a great double star splitter and nicely drills down into globulars. However on most nights, a 4.7 is unusable because the seeing won't support the magnification. 



#4 Mike B

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 11:57 PM

Hopefully not too far afield of the intent here, i recently picked up the Williams Optics version of the EP ("5mm") used in the CNC... runs at about 400x w/ ParaCorr in my 15" Dob. Yes, a lot of horse, but i'm finding many nights will support it to limited & varying degrees, the usable sharpness of the view wavering in-and-out. As such, it can be useful for busting open faint globulars, and can also help peel away subtleties of structure with objects such as planetary nebula, or faint galactic companions in groups/clusters.

 

Last nite i was glassing the large, bright PN in Andromeda, NGC 7662, and even an 8mm Ethos (~250x) was revealing some structure but at agonizingly small scales... so i popped in the 5mm-110° (yes, that w-i-d-e field was certainly handy in an undriven scope!). This really did help lift out the layered detail within its structure, even tho generally "soft", helping the eye to better register it.

 

I'm sure a planet would've looked far better in the 8mm (or even a bit less?) view, but many objects present an object that's less defined by nature, where the gains of added magnification do not come with a similar-proportioned loss of sharpness.

 

The same could *possibly* be had utilizing a Barlow,  but now we have a ParaCorr, Barlow, and glasswich EP between your eye & the photons, plus yet more fiddling & fussing with weight, balance, & optics in the dark; a single EP simply swapping in/out of the ParaCorr, no balancing issues, is really nice! grin.gif

 

That's my story, and i'm stickin' with it! wink.gif


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#5 AZStarGuy

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:29 AM

Great question.  I've enjoyed using mine on both my Dob & refractor.  I use it on my Dob for Globulars and Planetary Nebulea.  It consistently puts a smile on my face as it provides just over 500x with a paracor and has a FOV of approx. .22 so I can still track by hand!  

 

Seeing obviously helps but so does collimation.  Get both and the views, even from my suburban backyard, are wonderful.  I don't notice much image breakdown or dimming and eye placement is still very tolerable.  

 

The 4.7SX and 3.7SX fall into the category of "putting the spurs to an object."  Fun & rewarding.  


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#6 starbase25

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:27 AM

Hopefully not too far afield of the intent here, i recently picked up the Williams Optics version of the EP ("5mm") used in the CNC... runs at about 400x w/ ParaCorr in my 15" Dob. Yes, a lot of horse, but i'm finding many nights will support it to limited & varying degrees, the usable sharpness of the view wavering in-and-out. As such, it can be useful for busting open faint globulars, and can also help peel away subtleties of structure with objects such as planetary nebula, or faint galactic companions in groups/clusters.

 

Last nite i was glassing the large, bright PN in Andromeda, NGC 7662, and even an 8mm Ethos (~250x) was revealing some structure but at agonizingly small scales... so i popped in the 5mm-110° (yes, that w-i-d-e field was certainly handy in an undriven scope!). This really did help lift out the layered detail within its structure, even tho generally "soft", helping the eye to better register it.

 

I'm sure a planet would've looked far better in the 8mm (or even a bit less?) view, but many objects present an object that's less defined by nature, where the gains of added magnification do not come with a similar-proportioned loss of sharpness.

 

The same could *possibly* be had utilizing a Barlow,  but now we have a ParaCorr, Barlow, and glasswich EP between your eye & the photons, plus yet more fiddling & fussing with weight, balance, & optics in the dark; a single EP simply swapping in/out of the ParaCorr, no balancing issues, is really nice! grin.gif

 

That's my story, and i'm stickin' with it! wink.gif

I've been thinking about getting the 5mm WO version also. It would give me 305x with a field of 22'. Have you tried removing the rubber eye cup on yours so you can get in a bit better at the top? I've heard that the top is kind of large and a bit hard to get your eye in comfortably.



#7 havasman

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:55 AM

 

 

I've been thinking about getting the 5mm WO version also. It would give me 305x with a field of 22'. Have you tried removing the rubber eye cup on yours so you can get in a bit better at the top? I've heard that the top is kind of large and a bit hard to get your eye in comfortably.

 

I had the WO XWA 9 a few years ago and thought the optics 1st class but in the end the torturous neck bending ergonomics of the really huge eyecup won out & I sold it and bought a 10mm Ethos I still have. The same eyecup on my 4mm UWAN is my favorite of all my ep's but it did not scale up well at all, a real shame. Get the Lunt or Stellarvue instead of the WO. Same optics with workable ergonomics.



#8 starbase25

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:59 AM

 

 

I've been thinking about getting the 5mm WO version also. It would give me 305x with a field of 22'. Have you tried removing the rubber eye cup on yours so you can get in a bit better at the top? I've heard that the top is kind of large and a bit hard to get your eye in comfortably.

 

I had the WO XWA 9 a few years ago and thought the optics 1st class but in the end the torturous neck bending ergonomics of the really huge eyecup won out & I sold it and bought a 10mm Ethos I still have. The same eyecup on my 4mm UWAN is my favorite of all my ep's but it did not scale up well at all, a real shame. Get the Lunt or Stellarvue instead of the WO. Same optics with workable ergonomics.

 

I asked if Mike tried it by removing the eye cup. I guess you didn't try that?



#9 havasman

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:11 PM

 


 

I asked if Mike tried it by removing the eye cup. I guess you didn't try that?

 

No. There's the whole twist-up mechanism too and I just didn't care to mess with it. On the 9mm the flat between the eye lens and the twist up cup was of significant width too.



#10 starbase25

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:27 PM

 

 


 

I asked if Mike tried it by removing the eye cup. I guess you didn't try that?

 

No. There's the whole twist-up mechanism too and I just didn't care to mess with it. On the 9mm the flat between the eye lens and the twist up cup was of significant width too.

 

Ahhh, ok then.

 

I've read where someone has removed the eye cup to get a more comfortable view somewhere on here.



#11 faackanders2

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:33 PM

While at Okie-Tex I borrowed one for the night from the Televue Rep, I've always wanted to try one. I tried it in my 16" F4.5 dob with Paracorr, but it was just way too much magnification for the seeing that night, its about 450x.

 

My friend has a Televue 101, which gave a much more reasonable 115x, just under 1 deg AFOV. The view of the double cluster was amazing, talk about a spacewalk feeling, if I put my hands around my eyes to block any outside light and it was truly like floating in space, I could not see the edge of the FOV. My friend said this view was the closest thing he has ever seen to using binoviewers, which I've never been able to enjoy because I'm blind in one eye. 

 

The problem we ran into was there aren't many objects that are bright enough to really enjoy at that magnification in a small scope, even in dark skies, and we had some of the best that night. So I'm curious, those who own this eyepiece or or even the 3.7mm, how do you use yours? I can see how this eyepiece would be amazing on the moon in any telescope, but other than a few bright objects I don't see it getting much use, but maybe I'm missing something. There are those rare nights when the seeing is good and I use that much power on my dob, but usually they are small objects, but I can see how the extra FOV would be nice even if the object doesn't fill it. 

To se the dimmest and widest objects you need to observe single eyepiece (binoviewers do great on brighter objects because the light is halved to each eye).

 

I have a 17.5" f4.1 I use the 3.7mm 110 AFOV on globular clusters and small planets for confirmation (Mercury, Uranus, Neptune).

I would also use the 4.7mm 110 AFOV for the same objects plus some wider objects.

I also have a 5.5mm 100 AFOV for even wider objects at less power.

I do use the 10mm 100 AFOV a lot and love that the full moon normally fits in the view (expect for a perigee), and I may use this as a finder for my lower power eyepieces.

I use my 9mm 120 AFOV less and definitely no on the moon due to its' ring of fire on such a bright object.

20mm 100 AFOV is probably my most used finder eyepiece.

If an object or multiple objects are wider I use 30mm 82 AFOV or 20mm 100 AFOV as finders also.

 

P.S.  Have many other 82-84 AFOV eyepieces to to fill in the gaps or use in my ST80 finder for my big dob.

 

Good Luck!



#12 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:38 PM

I used the 4.7 Ethos infrequently in my 12.5" F5 (with paracorr).

 

When I did use it, I often found myself spending more time fiddling with attempting to get comfortable than just viewing the object I was after. Ultimately, I decided that I'd rather barlow 6 and 8 ethos on the relatively rare occasions I need ~380x or more.

 

In my case, the 110 degree field got to the uncomfortable level. I have heard others make this point about 100 degrees, but I am aok with that size of field.



#13 Starman1

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:58 AM

4.7mm (388x) and 3.7mm (493x)?

Uranus

Neptune

PK planetaries

Small NGC planetaries

double stars that are really close

That's about it, but that's still a lot of objects.



#14 starbase25

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:01 AM

 

 


 

I asked if Mike tried it by removing the eye cup. I guess you didn't try that?

 

No. There's the whole twist-up mechanism too and I just didn't care to mess with it. On the 9mm the flat between the eye lens and the twist up cup was of significant width too.

 

I ended up going with something else. Thanks for the help. :waytogo:



#15 starbase25

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:03 AM

4.7mm (388x) and 3.7mm (493x)?

Uranus

Neptune

PK planetaries

Small NGC planetaries

double stars that are really close

That's about it, but that's still a lot of objects.

Not enough to justify spending that kind of money for so little IMO.

 

PK planetaries ?  If your skies are super duper dark maybe.

 

Barlowing makes more sense without busting the wallet.


Edited by starbase25, 24 October 2017 - 10:04 AM.


#16 Starman1

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 11:31 AM

Most Perek-Kohoutek planetaries are small, but most are plenty bright enough to see in a 12.5" scope.

My skies average an NELM of 6.8, so not pristine, but fairly dark (21.4mpsas).

And if you include the other catalogs of planetaries, that number is easily a thousand.

I'm at 557 planetaries so far and there are a lot more on my list I haven't looked up.

And there are literally thousands of close double stars.

If you end up using your Barlow a lot (and I did), then you can justify getting eyepieces to use instead.

Especially if you use a dob and your Barlow weights 1.1 lbs.


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#17 Mike B

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:28 PM

 

Have you tried removing the rubber eye cup on yours so you can get in a bit better at the top? I've heard that the top is kind of large and a bit hard to get your eye in comfortably.

Hi Cliff-

 

No, i have not... nor am i likely to attempt. Yes, the top on this EP is a wee bit wide, and does lend itself better to a very *slight* canting of one's head in order to "get your eye TOTALLY into the view". Not nearly so severe as what i recall their "UWAN" 28mm ultrawide required, which had a top the size of a small industrial drum.

 

At this FL i can easily focus sharply w/o eyeglasses, so using the WO hyperwide 5 is still pretty easily & comfortably done. The UWAN was an eyegless-EP, so that's a major strike against its "eyegonomics".

 

 

If you end up using your Barlow a lot (and I did), then you can justify getting eyepieces to use instead.

Especially if you use a dob and your Barlow weights 1.1 lbs.

Totally agree! I don't mind Barlows at all, but after all these years i find that if i actually USE and ENJOY a FL that much, i may as well get the EP that delivers it with ease & comfort... and withOUT the epic pile of glass necessary to get it there! lol.gif

 

BTW, nice list of targets for this EP, Don!


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#18 faackanders2

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:40 PM

 

4.7mm (388x) and 3.7mm (493x)?

Uranus

Neptune

PK planetaries

Small NGC planetaries

double stars that are really close

That's about it, but that's still a lot of objects.

Not enough to justify spending that kind of money for so little IMO.

 

PK planetaries ?  If your skies are super duper dark maybe.

 

Barlowing makes more sense without busting the wallet.

 

I would add globular clusters.


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#19 John Huntley

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:34 PM

I had the 3.7 and 4.7 Ethos SX eyepieces for a year. They are very impressive but repeatedly I found that the Pentax XW 5mm and 3.5mm outperformed them in terms of sharpness and light scatter control so I, rather reluctantly, let the Ethos SX's got to new homes recently.


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#20 starbase25

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:07 PM

I had the 3.7 and 4.7 Ethos SX eyepieces for a year. They are very impressive but repeatedly I found that the Pentax XW 5mm and 3.5mm outperformed them in terms of sharpness and light scatter control so I, rather reluctantly, let the Ethos SX's got to new homes recently.

And a nice chunk of $$$$ in your hand for more XW's. :cool:


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#21 Starman1

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:23 PM

Speaking of XWs, I notice that Ricoh is now listing 6 XWs instead of the 4 they previously listed:

http://www.ricoh-ima...e/xw/index.html

Could it be the astro market was big enough to convince them?


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#22 John Huntley

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 06:24 PM

Speaking of XWs, I notice that Ricoh is now listing 6 XWs instead of the 4 they previously listed:

http://www.ricoh-ima...e/xw/index.html

Could it be the astro market was big enough to convince them?

Good news if the 5mm and 3.5mm are to continue smile.gif

 

The photos and the chart show 6 but the text of this bullet point needs updating !:

 

"A Choice of Four Magnifications to Meet Specific Applications

 

With four different magnifications (7mm, 10mm, 14mm and 20mm) to choose from, the XW series accommodates a wide range of both casual and specialized applications."



#23 JoshH

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:19 PM

Thanks everyone, this has been an interesting discussion. 




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