Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Takahashi Announces New Version of the FSQ-85... the FSQ-85EDP

  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 jag32

jag32

    Apollo

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1,065
  • Joined: 30 May 2017

Posted 31 October 2017 - 12:12 AM

Takahashi announced a new version of the FSQ-85, the "EDP" model.  The new FSQ-85EDP will be replacing the currently available FSQ-85EDX.  

 

Here's the news release in Japanese with photos:  http://www.takahashi..._fsq-85edp.html

 

From my initial assessment, the new FSQ-85EDP appears significantly improved over the current FSQ-85EDX if you will be imaging with a CCD or DSLR camera that has a full frame sensor.  There are probably not enough differences for current FSQ-85EDX owners to sell theirs and upgrade to the new EDP version, but if you're about to pull the trigger on a new FSQ-85, I think its best to wait a few weeks for the FSQ-85EDP to hit American shores.  I've heard late November is when it will be arriving.

 

The above article is not available in English, so i've translated the Japanese text into English, its not perfect and i'm still a bit confused as to some of the specific features, but you get the idea:

 

 

"Although it is FSQ - 85ED which has gained popularity as a compact photo visual machine, we changed the specification of the eyepiece section for this shooting. This makes it possible to connect the camera by preparing the camera mount DX - WR.  APS - C size was mainstream at the time of the launch of FSQ - 85ED, but recently the number of users to image with a full - size digital camera etc. has increased, even with this class of caliber the Petzval type personality, Aberrations came to be noticed.  By using the flattener 1.01 × previously released, we can correct the light field curvature at the focal point and the astigmatism almost completely to the full size range, resulting in a flat image plane. With the FSQ - 85EDP, you can also connect the flatner 1.01 × if you have the camera mount DX - WR. Up to the eyepiece adapter connecting ring (FSQ - 85ED) connected to the draw tube is the same as FSQ - 85ED, but behind it is the camera rotating device (TSA - 102), the filter box auxiliary ring TSA - 102), CA - 35 (TSA - 102), eye view adapter (CCA - 250), eyepiece adapter connecting ring (short), 31.7 eyepiece adapter. The camera mounting DX - WR is attached because M54 P0.75 is where you removed the eye view adapter (CCA - 250). FSQ - 85EDP is a lens barrel that planned and designed the optical system with consciousness as a compact machine, and focused on φ44 mm which is the full - size image circle from the center. Although it is a sharp star image from the center of the screen to φ20 mm or so, it is somewhat less flat with about 30 microns in φ44 mm (4 corners of 35 mm). At the time of the launch of FSQ - 85ED, it was an optical system that was necessary because it was the mainstream of APS - C size digital single lens reflex camera and cooling CCD. Recently users increasingly use digital cameras and CCD cameras with full size or more to increase the number of users to take pictures of the Petzval type even in this class of caliber, surrounding astigmatism has become noticeable. By using the flattener 1.01 ×, the light field curvature and astigmatism at the main focus are almost perfectly corrected to the full size range, resulting in a flat image plane. Although the focal length slightly increases to 455 mm f / 5.4, the sharpness of the central image unique to FSQ - 85 EDP continues to the full size area, the image circle is small but sharp optical FSQ - 106 ED is inevitable You can upgrade to a system. Reducer QE 0.73 × is used, the focal length and brightness are the same as the camera lens of 327 mm f / 3.8, and the aberration performance exceeds the high performance telephoto lens. It is a star image of 30 microns or less even per full-size four corners (φ44 mm)."


Edited by jag32, 31 October 2017 - 12:24 AM.

  • jrbarnett, CounterWeight, gnowellsct and 2 others like this

#2 akulapanam

akulapanam

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,656
  • Joined: 26 Aug 2012

Posted 31 October 2017 - 11:56 PM

Takahashi announced a new version of the FSQ-85, the "EDP" model.  The new FSQ-85EDP will be replacing the currently available FSQ-85EDX.  

 

Here's the news release in Japanese with photos:  http://www.takahashi..._fsq-85edp.html

 

From my initial assessment, the new FSQ-85EDP appears significantly improved over the current FSQ-85EDX if you will be imaging with a CCD or DSLR camera that has a full frame sensor.  There are probably not enough differences for current FSQ-85EDX owners to sell theirs and upgrade to the new EDP version, but if you're about to pull the trigger on a new FSQ-85, I think its best to wait a few weeks for the FSQ-85EDP to hit American shores.  I've heard late November is when it will be arriving.

 

The above article is not available in English, so i've translated the Japanese text into English, its not perfect and i'm still a bit confused as to some of the specific features, but you get the idea:

 

 

"Although it is FSQ - 85ED which has gained popularity as a compact photo visual machine, we changed the specification of the eyepiece section for this shooting. This makes it possible to connect the camera by preparing the camera mount DX - WR.  APS - C size was mainstream at the time of the launch of FSQ - 85ED, but recently the number of users to image with a full - size digital camera etc. has increased, even with this class of caliber the Petzval type personality, Aberrations came to be noticed.  By using the flattener 1.01 × previously released, we can correct the light field curvature at the focal point and the astigmatism almost completely to the full size range, resulting in a flat image plane. With the FSQ - 85EDP, you can also connect the flatner 1.01 × if you have the camera mount DX - WR. Up to the eyepiece adapter connecting ring (FSQ - 85ED) connected to the draw tube is the same as FSQ - 85ED, but behind it is the camera rotating device (TSA - 102), the filter box auxiliary ring TSA - 102), CA - 35 (TSA - 102), eye view adapter (CCA - 250), eyepiece adapter connecting ring (short), 31.7 eyepiece adapter. The camera mounting DX - WR is attached because M54 P0.75 is where you removed the eye view adapter (CCA - 250). FSQ - 85EDP is a lens barrel that planned and designed the optical system with consciousness as a compact machine, and focused on φ44 mm which is the full - size image circle from the center. Although it is a sharp star image from the center of the screen to φ20 mm or so, it is somewhat less flat with about 30 microns in φ44 mm (4 corners of 35 mm). At the time of the launch of FSQ - 85ED, it was an optical system that was necessary because it was the mainstream of APS - C size digital single lens reflex camera and cooling CCD. Recently users increasingly use digital cameras and CCD cameras with full size or more to increase the number of users to take pictures of the Petzval type even in this class of caliber, surrounding astigmatism has become noticeable. By using the flattener 1.01 ×, the light field curvature and astigmatism at the main focus are almost perfectly corrected to the full size range, resulting in a flat image plane. Although the focal length slightly increases to 455 mm f / 5.4, the sharpness of the central image unique to FSQ - 85 EDP continues to the full size area, the image circle is small but sharp optical FSQ - 106 ED is inevitable You can upgrade to a system. Reducer QE 0.73 × is used, the focal length and brightness are the same as the camera lens of 327 mm f / 3.8, and the aberration performance exceeds the high performance telephoto lens. It is a star image of 30 microns or less even per full-size four corners (φ44 mm)."

Very interesting.  Look forward to seeing some images.



#3 StarDust1

StarDust1

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Joined: 21 Aug 2012

Posted 01 November 2017 - 01:00 AM

"

From my initial assessment, the new FSQ-85EDP appears significantly improved over the current FSQ-85EDX if you will be imaging with a CCD or DSLR camera that has a full frame sensor.  There are probably not enough differences for current FSQ-85EDX owners to sell theirs and upgrade to the new EDP version, but if you're about to pull the trigger on a new FSQ-85,

"

 

Are the optics of the FSQ-85ED and FSQ-85EDP not the same? The spot-diagram of the FSQ-85ED and FSQ-85EDP look the same. Except maybe with the reducer, the spot diagram look a little different. 



#4 Suavi

Suavi

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 480
  • Joined: 05 May 2017
  • Loc: 20.25 deg South of the Equator

Posted 01 November 2017 - 02:20 AM

Sounds very interesting. But one still seems to need a flattener with the new fsq-85 to correct the field for larger sensors, so perhaps changes/improvements are just cosmetic?



#5 Fomalhaut

Fomalhaut

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,752
  • Joined: 16 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Switzerland

Posted 01 November 2017 - 02:38 AM

Sounds very interesting. But one still seems to need a flattener with the new fsq-85 to correct the field for larger sensors, so perhaps changes/improvements are just cosmetic?


Google translation from Takahashi's Homepage for the new "Flattener 1.01x" dedicated and used to upgrading the old FSQ-85 (APS-C format) into the new full size format:

"FSQ - 85ED is a lens barrel designed and designed with the optical system suitable for a compact machine in mind, focusing on the φ44 mm which is the full - size image circle from the center.
At the time of sale, APS - C size digital single lens reflex cameras and cooled CCD were mainstream, so it was a necessary optical system as needed.

Although the focal length slightly increases to 455 mm f / 5.4, the sharpness of the central image unique to FSQ-85ED continues to the periphery of the full size, the image circle is small, but sharp optical system which is inevitable with FSQ-106ED You can upgrade to."

(Published by Takahashi together with new FSQ-EDP)

Chris

Edited by Fomalhaut, 01 November 2017 - 02:45 AM.


#6 AnakChan

AnakChan

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,008
  • Joined: 01 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Oz

Posted 01 November 2017 - 03:51 AM

FSQ-85ED and FSQ-85EDP are the same optically. It's further down (focuser to eyepiece) the chain is where it's different. Note that all this is in reference to Japan FSQ-85ED and FSQ-85EDP. I believe internationally it's the FSQ-85EDX which already has different adapters.

 

I went to Kyoei Tokyo last week to talk to them about it. The FSQ-85ED didn't come with a CAA and with smaller adapters + finder scope. The new FSQ-85EDP is the same FSQ-85ED optically, but with the new blue colour instead of green, and comes with a CAA and larger adapters that is Flattener 1.01x ready (but still an optional extra).

 

I "converted" my FSQ-85ED to the EDP by buying the adapters and subsequently bought the Flattener  too. Pix in post #1019 in the Takitis thread.


  • CounterWeight and StarDust1 like this

#7 Suavi

Suavi

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 480
  • Joined: 05 May 2017
  • Loc: 20.25 deg South of the Equator

Posted 01 November 2017 - 04:31 AM

Thank you AnakChan for clarifying that. So essentially it is the same scope with some changes made at the focuser side.



#8 entilza

entilza

    Soyuz

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,773
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2014
  • Loc: Oakville, ON, Canada

Posted 01 November 2017 - 09:34 AM

AnakChan, I was trying to look at your astrobin site but for some reason it's not working well.  How does your flattener perform with that scope?  Has it improved some of the issues I've read about the Tak85?  Thanks.



#9 StarDust1

StarDust1

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Joined: 21 Aug 2012

Posted 01 November 2017 - 05:28 PM

AnakChan, thank you for clarification waytogo.gif  



#10 schmeah

schmeah

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,669
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2005
  • Loc: Morristown, NJ

Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:29 PM

My FSQ85ED came with a CAA. I often had asymmetric stars in one corner mainly which I thought was tilt. It did improve some when I removed the CAA. Even though my QSI 640 has a sensor size of only 15x15 mm, perhaps this new field flattener would eliminate it altogether. What is the price for the flattener as an upgrade?

 

Derek


Edited by schmeah, 01 November 2017 - 06:57 PM.


#11 Adam E

Adam E

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,906
  • Joined: 29 Jun 2009
  • Loc: Edgewood, NM

Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:44 PM

My FSQ85ED came with a CAA. I often had asymmetric stars in one corner mainly which I thought was tilt. It did improve some when I removed the CAA. Even though my QSI 640 has a sensor size of only 15x15 mm, perhaps this new field flattened would eliminate it altogether. What is the price for the flattened as an upgrade?

 

Derek

Looks to be pretty reasonable:  http://www.takahashi...-fsq-85edx.html

 

Been thinking of where to go for a short FL solution as I get back into imaging and the FSQ's have been on my mind and research list.


  • schmeah likes this

#12 akulapanam

akulapanam

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,656
  • Joined: 26 Aug 2012

Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:51 PM

My FSQ85ED came with a CAA. I often had asymmetric stars in one corner mainly which I thought was tilt. It did improve some when I removed the CAA. Even though my QSI 640 has a sensor size of only 15x15 mm, perhaps this new field flattened would eliminate it altogether. What is the price for the flattened as an upgrade?

Derek


This seems to be a universal complaint. That's might be acceptable on a Star 71 but shouldn't be on a Tak. This is one of the reasons I looked at the Borg 90FL so closely.

#13 schmeah

schmeah

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,669
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2005
  • Loc: Morristown, NJ

Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:56 PM

It does bother me a bit that they felt the necessity to add a field flattener to this scope, when the whole point of buying a Petzval four element design is for the "built in" flattener element. I've always had issues with perfect spacing for field flattener add ons and is the main reason I went with the FSQ.

 

Derek



#14 AnakChan

AnakChan

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,008
  • Joined: 01 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Oz

Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:29 PM

AnakChan, I was trying to look at your astrobin site but for some reason it's not working well.  How does your flattener perform with that scope?  Has it improved some of the issues I've read about the Tak85?  Thanks.

Err...I have to admit I'm cheap. I didn't pay for Astrobin which is why those photos you see are pretty old. Having said  that, I'm a terrible astrophotographer anyway.

 

My FSQ85ED came with a CAA. I often had asymmetric stars in one corner mainly which I thought was tilt. It did improve some when I removed the CAA. Even though my QSI 640 has a sensor size of only 15x15 mm, perhaps this new field flattener would eliminate it altogether. What is the price for the flattener as an upgrade?

 

Derek

Yes, the difference between the internationally sold/exported FSQ-85EDX and local japan FSQ-85ED are the accessories included with the OTA. Japan's FSQ-85ED never included the CAA and had the the finder scope. I believe the international FSQ-85EDX includes the CAA. Whether the FSQ-85EX includes the TKA23250 Aux Ring (Filter Box) by default, I don't know. But that Aux Ring is needed for the Flattener.

 

 

It does bother me a bit that they felt the necessity to add a field flattener to this scope, when the whole point of buying a Petzval four element design is for the "built in" flattener element. I've always had issues with perfect spacing for field flattener add ons and is the main reason I went with the FSQ.

 

Derek

[mini rant on]

Hmmm...that was kinda what I was alluding to when I first posted about the flattener back on Oct 8th in post #972, but more so that I didn't hear anyone report or complain about the FSQ-85ED with full frame sensors until the flattener came out; by then of which a whole bunch of "of course, isn't it obvious" posts.

[/mini rant off]



#15 jag32

jag32

    Apollo

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1,065
  • Joined: 30 May 2017

Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:41 PM

I was planning on buying an FSQ85EDX about a month ago having NO idea about the full frame imaging issues. I saw 44mm image circle on the Tak website and thought it was great. Then the 1.01x flattener gets announced and everyone is coming out of the woodwork about the FSQ85 having full frame issues. There were about as many reports on impropriety of the FSQ85 as there were on Harvey Weinstein in the last month! Needless to say, I've decided to pass on the FSQ85 of any variant since there are clear issues. Given this, I just bought a flattener for my FC76DCU and will be imaging with that for a few months until I figure something else out. My issue is that I've got an EM11 mount which is phenomenal but has a low weight capacity and wouldn't be able to handle the weight of an FSQ106 and imaging right, I don't believe. So for the time being, just going g to make do with my Tak 76.
  • M44 likes this

#16 Fomalhaut

Fomalhaut

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,752
  • Joined: 16 Aug 2008
  • Loc: Switzerland

Posted 02 November 2017 - 06:45 AM

[mini rant on]
Hmmm...that was kinda what I was alluding to when I first posted about the flattener back on Oct 8th in post #972, but more so that I didn't hear anyone report or complain about the FSQ-85ED with full frame sensors until the flattener came out; by then of which a whole bunch of "of course, isn't it obvious" posts.
[/mini rant off]


On one hand the better thing is the enemy of the good...
and OTOH that's just the way how marketing works... even with Takahashi shrug.gif

Chris

Edited by Fomalhaut, 02 November 2017 - 06:47 AM.


#17 LewisM

LewisM

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,732
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2013
  • Loc: Somewhere in the cosmos...

Posted 04 May 2018 - 05:02 AM

Yep, the "international" EDX is pretty much the same. I too bought the flattener (despite my local Tak rep not knowing it existed) and had a custom flattener (M54x0.75) to T2 (M42x0.75) adaptor made for my CCD cam. 



#18 milkywayrod

milkywayrod

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: 08 Apr 2017

Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:24 PM

I purchased the Takhashi FSQ 85 ED last year.  It arrived with the new bluish CAA.  Mild coma in the corners was present with largely resolved with the addition of the new field flattener.   I previously reported in cloudy nights the presence of artifacts in the corners coming from bright stars but there were no replies to my note.

 

https://www.cloudyni...kahashi-85-fsq/

 

The artifacts persist after the addition of the flattener when using my full field nikon d750.  Very bad when half the image needs to be cropped out.  Very troubling for such an expensive telescope.  Perhaps the artifact will be gone with the smaller FOV on a CCD which is on order.  A previous note in cloudy night discussed this artifact with dslr lenses but not with Takahashi FSQ 85 ED.

 

https://www.cloudyni...n-bright-stars/

 

Anyone have any experience with is artifact?  Should the scope go back and be checked out?



#19 edif300

edif300

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,425
  • Joined: 24 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Basque Country

Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:38 PM

Are you a newbie astrophotographer? which is your experience?

The artifacts that you are referring ARE COMMON in optical systems where a field flattener and reducer are involved. Petzval design has both integrated in the main tube.

 

So, I think you must spent some time into a looking for an images from FSQs, TV NP, Pentax SDP (...) and then we can debate if you need crop a single millimeter in your images. I suggest you beging with this sample taken by pentax SDP. Great scope by the way:

 

http://www.hendrenim...II_LRGB_med.jpg


Edited by edif300, 14 May 2018 - 04:44 PM.

  • Fomalhaut and StarDust1 like this

#20 gnowellsct

gnowellsct

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 16,031
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2009

Posted 15 May 2018 - 08:46 PM

Are you a newbie astrophotographer? which is your experience?

The artifacts that you are referring ARE COMMON in optical systems where a field flattener and reducer are involved. Petzval design has both integrated in the main tube.

 

So, I think you must spent some time into a looking for an images from FSQs, TV NP, Pentax SDP (...) and then we can debate if you need crop a single millimeter in your images. I suggest you beging with this sample taken by pentax SDP. Great scope by the way:

 

http://www.hendrenim...II_LRGB_med.jpg

Nice pic.  I'm trying to figure out what corresponds to Galieleo's long string of eleven stars!



#21 gnowellsct

gnowellsct

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 16,031
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2009

Posted 15 May 2018 - 09:24 PM

I think I got it....all the stars are under mag 10, and the typically conservative estimate of limiting magnitude would give 40 mm a limiting mag of about 11 (7.5 plus 5*(log of aperture in cm)) wherein we let Galileo's kuhrappy glass fight it out with intrinsically dark skies and probably one of the best observational skills in the history of visual astronomy.

 

galileos pleiadesjpg.jpg

 

and here's the star map.  I had to suppress some of the identification marks on the stars, but they showed their mags with mouse-over, and they're all under ten.

 

pleiades on map.jpg

 

 

 

 



#22 gnowellsct

gnowellsct

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 16,031
  • Joined: 24 Jun 2009

Posted 15 May 2018 - 09:41 PM

actually I think I meant to carry the line further left.  Anyhow it looks to me that the stars Galileo marked down all correspond to real stars.  -GN



#23 edif300

edif300

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,425
  • Joined: 24 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Basque Country

Posted 16 May 2018 - 03:40 PM

Nice pic.  I'm trying to figure out what corresponds to Galieleo's long string of eleven stars!

 

Chris Hendren is a great astrophotographer. His work can be found here:

 

http://www.hendrenimaging.com



#24 vlad dumitrescu

vlad dumitrescu

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 71
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2008
  • Loc: București

Posted 27 August 2018 - 06:13 PM

I saw this now, a few months ago, i hope this helps. If you have any other Qs, please ask.

 

I do own a FSQ85 and despite it s focus shift and everything, i still make good friends with him. I use it on a losmandy GM8 and yes, you get those butterflies on stars 1/2 out. Those imply vignetting like in the image in the attachment. At the same time i used it with my 6d, and if the CAA is in the right position, you get a good flatfield but it s harder to focus, especially with the tak focuser that has more shift than a new 8 in Celestron brand sct.

 

I also have the 1.01 flattner. Works excellent, there is one catch, because despite the nice spots, you get more vignetting, aka butterflies on stars. Despite that i use it most of the time with my Asi1600 without flattner and with the 6d and flattner. I managed somehow to love this as it is and had some nice light inside of it.

 

Pic1: one sub APSC, never ever have i seen any hints of color in dslr images on this scope: https://ibb.co/k7mMU6

Pic2: one stack 6D plus 1.01x flattner in very bad skies : https://ibb.co/kmjrJ7 

Pic3: one frame of the above stack, 6D and 1.01, uncropped https://ibb.co/nEppix

Pic4: 8hrs of LRGBHa on ASI1600, M31, still a work in progress, almost done. shot in 21.8 skies https://ibb.co/h7oNa9

 

Attached, the way the butterflies form, also from an older cn thread i think, i had it on my computer since investigating. 

 

I hope this help anyone in regard to the 85ED. If you learn to love it, you ll be a happy customer. 

 

Clear skies,

 

Vlad

Attached Thumbnails

  • cucu_vigne.jpg
  • takmic.jpg

Edited by vlad dumitrescu, 27 August 2018 - 06:37 PM.

  • Michal1, StarDust1 and danielguo like this

#25 jag32

jag32

    Apollo

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 1,065
  • Joined: 30 May 2017

Posted 27 August 2018 - 08:13 PM

Vlad, what kind of mount is that?




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics