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#176 starman876

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:27 AM

and lets face you old farts.  Even if you could build a decent size newt you would all complain it weighs too muchlol.gif


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#177 tim53

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:28 AM

and lets face you old farts.  Even if you could build a decent size newt you would all complain it weighs too muchlol.gif

Not me.  I'd assemble it once and let my kids take it apart after I'm in the ground.


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#178 tim53

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:30 AM

I got to view with the 30" f/6 Newtonian at Stony Ridge Observatory in the Angeles Crest about 30 years ago.  An amazing telescope, but you had to ride a lift way off the observatory floor to look through the eyepiece.  http://stony-ridge.org/

 

-Tim.


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#179 Terra Nova

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:38 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Tube layup techniques haven't changed much, this isn't filament winding.  Finding and training personnel would take some time.  But I doubt the market would even support a small operation, even if run efficiently.  It would have to be a labor of love.

Perhaps a small business in a garage would be enough to supply ATM's.

 

Like I said, a cottage industry.

 

Having been a partner in a small niche business, I can tell you that Chuck is right about labor of love.  It's probably not a business large enough to support a full-time living (today).  So, then you have to ask yourself, why do it?  Sure you can make some extra money to perhaps travel once in a while, but don't forget, you're kinda tied down to this small business.  If you don't have a lot of experience doing this, the waste will likely eat your profits.  If you have a career worth of experience, it's probably the last thing you want to do in retirement.  But, that is about what it would take - someone with enough experience to run the tiny operation efficiently.  The market just isn't large enough today.  For those to really really must have a fiberglass tube and possess a little mechanical skill, DIY is certainly possible.  The only way I'd go for it is for a accurate restoration.  For a "functional" restoration, I'd probably get a phenolic tube out of Germany (what I was going to do for my field Cave).

 

I don't think many today would build these old school Newts anyways, and or enough demand to restore classic Newts.

 

Exactly Chas.  And those who would build a Dob with a tube would more likely choose a cheaper solution.

 

But if one has the know how like Chuck and could buy the tools and such for cheap than maybe it is worth a shot if you could make a few tubes a year.  I have no clue what making firberglass tubes would be like.

 

I don't even know if you buy the thick wall and longer Sono tube like i got from Hugh's sluppy house back in 1988.  All i see at Home depot is the short thin wall stuff.

 

I think at a rate of a few tubes a year it would take a long, long time to ever strike even on your investment.


Edited by terraclarke, 13 January 2018 - 11:40 AM.

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#180 CHASLX200

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:45 AM

I got no clue what the tools would go for used.



#181 tim53

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:55 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tube layup techniques haven't changed much, this isn't filament winding.  Finding and training personnel would take some time.  But I doubt the market would even support a small operation, even if run efficiently.  It would have to be a labor of love.

Perhaps a small business in a garage would be enough to supply ATM's.

 

Like I said, a cottage industry.

 

Having been a partner in a small niche business, I can tell you that Chuck is right about labor of love.  It's probably not a business large enough to support a full-time living (today).  So, then you have to ask yourself, why do it?  Sure you can make some extra money to perhaps travel once in a while, but don't forget, you're kinda tied down to this small business.  If you don't have a lot of experience doing this, the waste will likely eat your profits.  If you have a career worth of experience, it's probably the last thing you want to do in retirement.  But, that is about what it would take - someone with enough experience to run the tiny operation efficiently.  The market just isn't large enough today.  For those to really really must have a fiberglass tube and possess a little mechanical skill, DIY is certainly possible.  The only way I'd go for it is for a accurate restoration.  For a "functional" restoration, I'd probably get a phenolic tube out of Germany (what I was going to do for my field Cave).

 

I don't think many today would build these old school Newts anyways, and or enough demand to restore classic Newts.

 

Exactly Chas.  And those who would build a Dob with a tube would more likely choose a cheaper solution.

 

But if one has the know how like Chuck and could buy the tools and such for cheap than maybe it is worth a shot if you could make a few tubes a year.  I have no clue what making firberglass tubes would be like.

 

I don't even know if you buy the thick wall and longer Sono tube like i got from Hugh's sluppy house back in 1988.  All i see at Home depot is the short thin wall stuff.

 

I think at a rate of a few tubes a year it would take a long, long time to ever strike even on your investment.

 

Even more important, even while Cave was still making scopes, Jeff Beish and Don Parker were telling him he should make his tubes out of aluminum.

 

I think today it would probably be cheaper to go to a sheet metal shop and have an aluminum tube rolled and welded. 

 

-Tim.


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#182 Terra Nova

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:01 PM

My ATM 6” has a rolled and seamed galvanized sheetmetal tube that I had powder coated. It was fabricated at a local (San Berdoo) sheetmetal shop 50 years ago and looks perfect today. The galvanized steel is thin and a lot stronger than aluminum so if it is taken care of it will outlast me. More resilient to dents and dings than thin aluminum. For the aluminum to hold up as well it has to be much thicker and then winds up actually weighing more.


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#183 CHASLX200

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:05 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tube layup techniques haven't changed much, this isn't filament winding.  Finding and training personnel would take some time.  But I doubt the market would even support a small operation, even if run efficiently.  It would have to be a labor of love.

Perhaps a small business in a garage would be enough to supply ATM's.

 

Like I said, a cottage industry.

 

Having been a partner in a small niche business, I can tell you that Chuck is right about labor of love.  It's probably not a business large enough to support a full-time living (today).  So, then you have to ask yourself, why do it?  Sure you can make some extra money to perhaps travel once in a while, but don't forget, you're kinda tied down to this small business.  If you don't have a lot of experience doing this, the waste will likely eat your profits.  If you have a career worth of experience, it's probably the last thing you want to do in retirement.  But, that is about what it would take - someone with enough experience to run the tiny operation efficiently.  The market just isn't large enough today.  For those to really really must have a fiberglass tube and possess a little mechanical skill, DIY is certainly possible.  The only way I'd go for it is for a accurate restoration.  For a "functional" restoration, I'd probably get a phenolic tube out of Germany (what I was going to do for my field Cave).

 

I don't think many today would build these old school Newts anyways, and or enough demand to restore classic Newts.

 

Exactly Chas.  And those who would build a Dob with a tube would more likely choose a cheaper solution.

 

But if one has the know how like Chuck and could buy the tools and such for cheap than maybe it is worth a shot if you could make a few tubes a year.  I have no clue what making firberglass tubes would be like.

 

I don't even know if you buy the thick wall and longer Sono tube like i got from Hugh's sluppy house back in 1988.  All i see at Home depot is the short thin wall stuff.

 

I think at a rate of a few tubes a year it would take a long, long time to ever strike even on your investment.

 

Even more important, even while Cave was still making scopes, Jeff Beish and Don Parker were telling him he should make his tubes out of aluminum.

 

I think today it would probably be cheaper to go to a sheet metal shop and have an aluminum tube rolled and welded. 

 

-Tim.

 

I had that done years ago and the tube was not perfect round.



#184 starman876

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:25 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tube layup techniques haven't changed much, this isn't filament winding.  Finding and training personnel would take some time.  But I doubt the market would even support a small operation, even if run efficiently.  It would have to be a labor of love.

Perhaps a small business in a garage would be enough to supply ATM's.

 

Like I said, a cottage industry.

 

Having been a partner in a small niche business, I can tell you that Chuck is right about labor of love.  It's probably not a business large enough to support a full-time living (today).  So, then you have to ask yourself, why do it?  Sure you can make some extra money to perhaps travel once in a while, but don't forget, you're kinda tied down to this small business.  If you don't have a lot of experience doing this, the waste will likely eat your profits.  If you have a career worth of experience, it's probably the last thing you want to do in retirement.  But, that is about what it would take - someone with enough experience to run the tiny operation efficiently.  The market just isn't large enough today.  For those to really really must have a fiberglass tube and possess a little mechanical skill, DIY is certainly possible.  The only way I'd go for it is for a accurate restoration.  For a "functional" restoration, I'd probably get a phenolic tube out of Germany (what I was going to do for my field Cave).

 

I don't think many today would build these old school Newts anyways, and or enough demand to restore classic Newts.

 

Exactly Chas.  And those who would build a Dob with a tube would more likely choose a cheaper solution.

 

But if one has the know how like Chuck and could buy the tools and such for cheap than maybe it is worth a shot if you could make a few tubes a year.  I have no clue what making firberglass tubes would be like.

 

I don't even know if you buy the thick wall and longer Sono tube like i got from Hugh's sluppy house back in 1988.  All i see at Home depot is the short thin wall stuff.

 

I think at a rate of a few tubes a year it would take a long, long time to ever strike even on your investment.

 

Even more important, even while Cave was still making scopes, Jeff Beish and Don Parker were telling him he should make his tubes out of aluminum.

 

I think today it would probably be cheaper to go to a sheet metal shop and have an aluminum tube rolled and welded. 

 

-Tim.

 

I had that done years ago and the tube was not perfect round.

 

sounds to me like you went to the wrong shop.


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#185 CHASLX200

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:40 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tube layup techniques haven't changed much, this isn't filament winding.  Finding and training personnel would take some time.  But I doubt the market would even support a small operation, even if run efficiently.  It would have to be a labor of love.

Perhaps a small business in a garage would be enough to supply ATM's.

 

Like I said, a cottage industry.

 

Having been a partner in a small niche business, I can tell you that Chuck is right about labor of love.  It's probably not a business large enough to support a full-time living (today).  So, then you have to ask yourself, why do it?  Sure you can make some extra money to perhaps travel once in a while, but don't forget, you're kinda tied down to this small business.  If you don't have a lot of experience doing this, the waste will likely eat your profits.  If you have a career worth of experience, it's probably the last thing you want to do in retirement.  But, that is about what it would take - someone with enough experience to run the tiny operation efficiently.  The market just isn't large enough today.  For those to really really must have a fiberglass tube and possess a little mechanical skill, DIY is certainly possible.  The only way I'd go for it is for a accurate restoration.  For a "functional" restoration, I'd probably get a phenolic tube out of Germany (what I was going to do for my field Cave).

 

I don't think many today would build these old school Newts anyways, and or enough demand to restore classic Newts.

 

Exactly Chas.  And those who would build a Dob with a tube would more likely choose a cheaper solution.

 

But if one has the know how like Chuck and could buy the tools and such for cheap than maybe it is worth a shot if you could make a few tubes a year.  I have no clue what making firberglass tubes would be like.

 

I don't even know if you buy the thick wall and longer Sono tube like i got from Hugh's sluppy house back in 1988.  All i see at Home depot is the short thin wall stuff.

 

I think at a rate of a few tubes a year it would take a long, long time to ever strike even on your investment.

 

Even more important, even while Cave was still making scopes, Jeff Beish and Don Parker were telling him he should make his tubes out of aluminum.

 

I think today it would probably be cheaper to go to a sheet metal shop and have an aluminum tube rolled and welded. 

 

-Tim.

 

I had that done years ago and the tube was not perfect round.

 

sounds to me like you went to the wrong shop.

 

  I bet over 50% of tubes are not perfect round


Edited by CHASLX200, 13 January 2018 - 12:41 PM.


#186 Terra Nova

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:43 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said, a cottage industry.

 

Having been a partner in a small niche business, I can tell you that Chuck is right about labor of love.  It's probably not a business large enough to support a full-time living (today).  So, then you have to ask yourself, why do it?  Sure you can make some extra money to perhaps travel once in a while, but don't forget, you're kinda tied down to this small business.  If you don't have a lot of experience doing this, the waste will likely eat your profits.  If you have a career worth of experience, it's probably the last thing you want to do in retirement.  But, that is about what it would take - someone with enough experience to run the tiny operation efficiently.  The market just isn't large enough today.  For those to really really must have a fiberglass tube and possess a little mechanical skill, DIY is certainly possible.  The only way I'd go for it is for a accurate restoration.  For a "functional" restoration, I'd probably get a phenolic tube out of Germany (what I was going to do for my field Cave).

 

I don't think many today would build these old school Newts anyways, and or enough demand to restore classic Newts.

 

Exactly Chas.  And those who would build a Dob with a tube would more likely choose a cheaper solution.

 

But if one has the know how like Chuck and could buy the tools and such for cheap than maybe it is worth a shot if you could make a few tubes a year.  I have no clue what making firberglass tubes would be like.

 

I don't even know if you buy the thick wall and longer Sono tube like i got from Hugh's sluppy house back in 1988.  All i see at Home depot is the short thin wall stuff.

 

I think at a rate of a few tubes a year it would take a long, long time to ever strike even on your investment.

 

Even more important, even while Cave was still making scopes, Jeff Beish and Don Parker were telling him he should make his tubes out of aluminum.

 

I think today it would probably be cheaper to go to a sheet metal shop and have an aluminum tube rolled and welded. 

 

-Tim.

 

I had that done years ago and the tube was not perfect round.

 

sounds to me like you went to the wrong shop.

 

  I bet over 50% of tubes are not perfect round

 

That’s what adjustable cells and adjustable spiders are made for.


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#187 tim53

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:52 PM

The tube on one of my Optical Craftsmen 8" f/6s isn't round.  I suspect it was stored horizontally with weight on it for many years.  The end rings and clamp rings on the mount do help a lot, though. 

 

I haven't seen my copy of Neal Howard's "Standard Handbook of Telescope Making" in a while. Hope I still have it.  It had a chapter about making fiberglass parts, including a tube.  It required making a mandrel, wrapping it in flexible sheet plastic (a couple mil thick stuff), and glassing layers over that.  It would be messy, and you'd have to fill the outside before finishing, but should otherwise make a decent tube.

 

A variation, of course, would be to use a sonotube and glass that.  I'd want to make plywood split disks to keep it round, though.

 

Something I want to try is laying up veneer and epoxy over a sonotube.  Steve Swayze showed me pics of tubes he'd made this way several years ago.

 

-Tim.


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#188 steve t

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:00 PM

Back in 1981, when I built my 6" F/8 newtonian,  I used the method described in Allyn Thompson's book " Making Your Own Telescope."  I bought a lenght of 7" aluminium pipe from a local irrigation company and lined the inside with 1/8" cork from a Farm and Fleet. As long as I allow a 1/2 hour for cool down (longer if the storage vs outside temperature differences is great) I haven't had a major problem with tube currents. 

Steve T


Edited by steve t, 13 January 2018 - 03:28 PM.

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#189 WoodyEnd

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:10 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tube layup techniques haven't changed much, this isn't filament winding.  Finding and training personnel would take some time.  But I doubt the market would even support a small operation, even if run efficiently.  It would have to be a labor of love.

Perhaps a small business in a garage would be enough to supply ATM's.

 

Like I said, a cottage industry.

 

Having been a partner in a small niche business, I can tell you that Chuck is right about labor of love.  It's probably not a business large enough to support a full-time living (today).  So, then you have to ask yourself, why do it?  Sure you can make some extra money to perhaps travel once in a while, but don't forget, you're kinda tied down to this small business.  If you don't have a lot of experience doing this, the waste will likely eat your profits.  If you have a career worth of experience, it's probably the last thing you want to do in retirement.  But, that is about what it would take - someone with enough experience to run the tiny operation efficiently.  The market just isn't large enough today.  For those to really really must have a fiberglass tube and possess a little mechanical skill, DIY is certainly possible.  The only way I'd go for it is for a accurate restoration.  For a "functional" restoration, I'd probably get a phenolic tube out of Germany (what I was going to do for my field Cave).

 

I don't think many today would build these old school Newts anyways, and or enough demand to restore classic Newts.

 

Exactly Chas.  And those who would build a Dob with a tube would more likely choose a cheaper solution.

 

But if one has the know how like Chuck and could buy the tools and such for cheap than maybe it is worth a shot if you could make a few tubes a year.  I have no clue what making firberglass tubes would be like.

 

I don't even know if you buy the thick wall and longer Sono tube like i got from Hugh's sluppy house back in 1988.  All i see at Home depot is the short thin wall stuff.

 

The thick wall stuff is gone and it's expensive/difficult to obtain tubes over 48" in length.

 

I have looked and have never been able to find large diameter tubes in either aluminum or fiberglass.



#190 CHASLX200

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:35 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tube layup techniques haven't changed much, this isn't filament winding.  Finding and training personnel would take some time.  But I doubt the market would even support a small operation, even if run efficiently.  It would have to be a labor of love.

Perhaps a small business in a garage would be enough to supply ATM's.

 

Like I said, a cottage industry.

 

Having been a partner in a small niche business, I can tell you that Chuck is right about labor of love.  It's probably not a business large enough to support a full-time living (today).  So, then you have to ask yourself, why do it?  Sure you can make some extra money to perhaps travel once in a while, but don't forget, you're kinda tied down to this small business.  If you don't have a lot of experience doing this, the waste will likely eat your profits.  If you have a career worth of experience, it's probably the last thing you want to do in retirement.  But, that is about what it would take - someone with enough experience to run the tiny operation efficiently.  The market just isn't large enough today.  For those to really really must have a fiberglass tube and possess a little mechanical skill, DIY is certainly possible.  The only way I'd go for it is for a accurate restoration.  For a "functional" restoration, I'd probably get a phenolic tube out of Germany (what I was going to do for my field Cave).

 

I don't think many today would build these old school Newts anyways, and or enough demand to restore classic Newts.

 

Exactly Chas.  And those who would build a Dob with a tube would more likely choose a cheaper solution.

 

But if one has the know how like Chuck and could buy the tools and such for cheap than maybe it is worth a shot if you could make a few tubes a year.  I have no clue what making firberglass tubes would be like.

 

I don't even know if you buy the thick wall and longer Sono tube like i got from Hugh's sluppy house back in 1988.  All i see at Home depot is the short thin wall stuff.

 

The thick wall stuff is gone and it's expensive/difficult to obtain tubes over 48" in length.

 

I have looked and have never been able to find large diameter tubes in either aluminum or fiberglass.

 

Well Parks used to sell big fiberglass tubes for over 50 years.  Up to 20" in diameter.



#191 WoodyEnd

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:06 AM

 I never thought of having a tube custom rolled. I will have to look into this. Thanks to those who brought this up.



#192 deSitter

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:04 PM

 I never thought of having a tube custom rolled. I will have to look into this. Thanks to those who brought this up.

Can someone give an estimate of the cost of say a 12" OD 48" tube?

 

-drl



#193 deSitter

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:06 PM

and lets face you old farts.  Even if you could build a decent size newt you would all complain it weighs too muchlol.gif

I want to be Clarence Custer before I lie in the azimuthal plane. You won't hear me complain!

 

-drl


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#194 starman876

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:06 PM

there are places on line like Hastings that will sell you a tube

 

 

https://www.hastings...ubing/overview/


Edited by starman876, 14 January 2018 - 02:07 PM.


#195 Chuck Hards

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:43 PM

 

 

I haven't seen my copy of Neal Howard's "Standard Handbook of Telescope Making" in a while. Hope I still have it.  It had a chapter about making fiberglass parts, including a tube.  It required making a mandrel, wrapping it in flexible sheet plastic (a couple mil thick stuff), and glassing layers over that.  It would be messy, and you'd have to fill the outside before finishing, but should otherwise make a decent tube.

 

 

That's exactly how I made the first tube for my 8" f/7 Newt when I was 14.   Borrowed the Howard book from the library, built the 2-part mandrel he described, and laid-up a bright yellow tube in my dad's garage.  Worked great, but was on the heavy side, I had about double the wall thickness I needed.  

 

I used it a few years before saving the money for a Parks tube to replace it with.  Still have the Parks.


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#196 CHASLX200

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 03:56 PM

there are places on line like Hastings that will sell you a tube

 

 

https://www.hastings...ubing/overview/

Wonder if they will make them the same OD as the Parks tubes?



#197 deSitter

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 04:24 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tube layup techniques haven't changed much, this isn't filament winding.  Finding and training personnel would take some time.  But I doubt the market would even support a small operation, even if run efficiently.  It would have to be a labor of love.

Perhaps a small business in a garage would be enough to supply ATM's.

 

Like I said, a cottage industry.

 

Having been a partner in a small niche business, I can tell you that Chuck is right about labor of love.  It's probably not a business large enough to support a full-time living (today).  So, then you have to ask yourself, why do it?  Sure you can make some extra money to perhaps travel once in a while, but don't forget, you're kinda tied down to this small business.  If you don't have a lot of experience doing this, the waste will likely eat your profits.  If you have a career worth of experience, it's probably the last thing you want to do in retirement.  But, that is about what it would take - someone with enough experience to run the tiny operation efficiently.  The market just isn't large enough today.  For those to really really must have a fiberglass tube and possess a little mechanical skill, DIY is certainly possible.  The only way I'd go for it is for a accurate restoration.  For a "functional" restoration, I'd probably get a phenolic tube out of Germany (what I was going to do for my field Cave).

 

I don't think many today would build these old school Newts anyways, and or enough demand to restore classic Newts.

 

Exactly Chas.  And those who would build a Dob with a tube would more likely choose a cheaper solution.

 

But if one has the know how like Chuck and could buy the tools and such for cheap than maybe it is worth a shot if you could make a few tubes a year.  I have no clue what making firberglass tubes would be like.

 

I don't even know if you buy the thick wall and longer Sono tube like i got from Hugh's sluppy house back in 1988.  All i see at Home depot is the short thin wall stuff.

 

I think at a rate of a few tubes a year it would take a long, long time to ever strike even on your investment.

 

Even more important, even while Cave was still making scopes, Jeff Beish and Don Parker were telling him he should make his tubes out of aluminum.

 

I think today it would probably be cheaper to go to a sheet metal shop and have an aluminum tube rolled and welded. 

 

-Tim.

 

..and there are good arguments that it's the best thing when properly lined..

 

-drl 



#198 starman876

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:46 PM

 

there are places on line like Hastings that will sell you a tube

 

 

https://www.hastings...ubing/overview/

Wonder if they will make them the same OD as the Parks tubes?

 

that would be way to expensive.  Just order a stock tube.  This is the place where a lot of ATM tubes comes from.


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#199 WoodyEnd

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 10:30 PM

 

 I never thought of having a tube custom rolled. I will have to look into this. Thanks to those who brought this up.

Can someone give an estimate of the cost of say a 12" OD 48" tube?

 

-drl

 

D&G sells tubes up to 12" in diameter. Perhaps Parallax would sell their large diameter tubes if you asked.


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#200 Chuck Hards

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 10:45 PM

 

 I never thought of having a tube custom rolled. I will have to look into this. Thanks to those who brought this up.

Can someone give an estimate of the cost of say a 12" OD 48" tube?

 

-drl

 

I bought a 12" OD tube from Hastings some years ago, 72" long, for a 10" Newt.  Seems the price was under $200 shipped back then, ~10 years or so.  They have pricing on their website and will quote shipping.




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